List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Arr0w]

If Mitchell is a chance and we can get it done for next year's first we should make it happen IMO.

I wouldn't, given we aren't a cemented top 4 side. At that point, there will be better suitors to fill that role

 

[Arr0w]

Id say Fisher and SPS are in the move on category, just ahead of Dow and LOB.

I wouldn't move on Fisher or SPS, but I do worry about Dow, more than LOB

 

[Red_man2008]

How do our players compare to the top end at Melbourne.

Jones - May
Weitering - Lever ?
Saad - Salem ?
Stocker - Bowey
Docherty - Hibberd ✔
Plowman - Petty

our backline compares really well

TDK - Gawn
Cripps - Viney
Walsh - Oliver ?
Kennedy - Petracca
Curnow - Brayshaw ?
O’Brien/Newnes - Langdon

a lot of losses here. But TDK is getting better. Cripps had a poor year while Walsh will go past Oliver eventually. Add Cerra instead of Curnow and we will start to get closer to breaking even.

McKay - Brown
Curnow - McDonald
Honey - Pickett
Owies - Fritsch
Mcgovern - Harmes ?
Fisher - Neal-Bullen

another loss overall but Curnow, honey and McGovern should improve next season. Fishers eat is better than Neal-Bullen but will we see it.

Melbourne’s bench consists of fit two way running role players and a second ruck. Players like Dow, Fogarty, Williams, Silvagni, Williamson and Gibbons are our equivalent which are better than Melbourne’s hands down. Silvagni probably harshly done by not starting over mcgovern/Newnes or Fisher.

our list management has a few holes for 2022. It can be fixed pretty easily in my opinion.

Number 1 - keeping our players on the field with full uninterrupted preseasons
Number 2 - adding Cerra, hewett and a second ruck
Number 3 - a proper game plan that stops exposing our strong backline.

The last one should have huge upsides in all three lines and make us a 5-6 goal better team.

 

[katmanblue]

Yeah I do actually. Owies managed 30 shots at goal and was a good kick....w ell, until he wasn't. And then the last month of the season where he wasn't picked. I think he could kick 30 in a good year.

Honey is different, has outside pace and quick reflexes. I think Owies took Gibbons / Fog's spot in the team. But that's me.

Owies seems to be decent overhead too.

 

[Arr0w]

How do our players compare to the top end at Melbourne.

Jones - May
Weitering - Lever ?
Saad - Salem ?
Stocker - Bowey
Docherty - Hibberd ✔
Plowman - Petty

our backline compares really well

TDK - Gawn
Cripps - Viney
Walsh - Oliver ?
Kennedy - Petracca
Curnow - Brayshaw ?
O’Brien/Newnes - Langdon

a lot of losses here. But TDK is getting better. Cripps had a poor year while Walsh will go past Oliver eventually. Add Cerra instead of Curnow and we will start to get closer to breaking even.

McKay - Brown
Curnow - McDonald
Honey - Pickett
Owies - Fritsch
Mcgovern - Harmes ?
Fisher - Neal-Bullen

another loss overall but Curnow, honey and McGovern should improve next season. Fishers eat is better than Neal-Bullen but will we see it.

Melbourne’s bench consists of fit two way running role players and a second ruck. Players like Dow, Fogarty, Williams, Silvagni, Williamson and Gibbons are our equivalent which are better than Melbourne’s hands down. Silvagni probably harshly done by not starting over mcgovern/Newnes or Fisher.

our list management has a few holes for 2022. It can be fixed pretty easily in my opinion.

Number 1 - keeping our players on the field with full uninterrupted preseasons
Number 2 - adding Cerra, hewett and a second ruck
Number 3 - a proper game plan that stops exposing our strong backline.

The last one should have huge upsides in all three lines and make us a 5-6 goal better team.

Wondering how many of those Demon players would have been assessed 18 months ago

 

[katmanblue]

Next year is going to be massive for Williams.
A lot of the criticisms levelled at him this year were also sent Steven May’s way in his first year at Melbourne and his response since has been awesome.
It would be amazing, albeit possibly unrealistic, to think he’ll become an A grade midfielder, but I’d be really happy if he becomes an All Australian squad level half back, top 5 in our B&F level output.
If he has a another poor year missing games with minor injuries and suspension then it’s likely we are saddled with a salary cap headache for the next 4 seasons.

How he responds to his 2021 will show us plenty.

 

[zeeCFC]

Voss has said he likes power and contested ability in his side, sounds like we'll finally see some bigger bodies, but doesn't bode well for the likes of LOB, Fisher etc.

Right now, this is my preferred '2022, 22' and reserves with the following caveats:

- Docherty out for a while
- Marchbank will take a while
- Kemp and Williams to be mids
- McGov training all preseason as a defender
- Parks, McDonald, Newnes all retained

FB: McGovern, Weitering, Stocker
HB: Newman, Jones, Saad
C: Kemp, Cerra, Williams
HF: Honey, CCurnow, Martin
FF: Silvagni, McKay, Durdin
R: De Koning, Cripps, Walsh
IC: Dow, Hewett, Cuningham, ECurnow

2nds
FB: Marchbank, McDonald, Plowman
HB: Williamson, Parks, Boyd
C: Cottrell, Setterfield, LOB
HF: Fisher, ????, Fogarty
FF: Owies, ????, Mirkov
R: Pittonet, Kennedy, Carroll
IC: Docherty, Philp, Newnes, Ramsay

Looks like we're covered across the field except forward, but McDonald is very versatile and it's assuming Gov is back. Looking closer though, we really lack quality wingman and if we decide to push Williams/Kemp/Stock upfield, we lose the 7th defender every side seems to play nowadays.

We lack quality or durability in the following positions:
- 3rd tall defender
- Both wings
- Ruck to compliment TDK and not be a liability

3rd tall defender there's a few solutions: Gov, Marchbank gets fit or we recruit a Talia type and release Jones.

Wings: my biggest worry, don't see an obvious choice. LOB lacks the aggression and consistency, Cottrell lacks the quality, Kemp could play there and my left of field selection is Philp or Honey. Should we decide to play Pitto and TDK is forward I'd consider SOS on a wing.

 

[JustaBattler]

Honey Harry Anyone
Martin Charlie Cuningham
McGovern

is a finals forward line

Plowman Weitering Stocker
Saad Jones Williams
Newnes

is a finals backline

Cripps Walsh is a 2/8 midfield situation,,,,

that is the problem.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Voss has said he likes power and contested ability in his side, sounds like we'll finally see some bigger bodies, but doesn't bode well for the likes of LOB, Fisher etc.

Right now, this is my preferred '2022, 22' and reserves with the following caveats:

- Docherty out for a while
- Marchbank will take a while
- Kemp and Williams to be mids
- McGov training all preseason as a defender
- Parks, McDonald, Newnes all retained

FB: McGovern, Weitering, Stocker
HB: Newman, Jones, Saad
C: Kemp, Cerra, Williams
HF: Honey, CCurnow, Martin
FF: Silvagni, McKay, Durdin
R: De Koning, Cripps, Walsh
IC: Dow, Hewett, Cuningham, ECurnow

2nds
FB: Marchbank, McDonald, Plowman
HB: Williamson, Parks, Boyd
C: Cottrell, Setterfield, LOB
HF: Fisher, ????, Fogarty
FF: Owies, ????, Mirkov
R: Pittonet, Kennedy, Carroll
IC: Docherty, Philp, Newnes, Ramsay

Looks like we're covered across the field except forward, but McDonald is very versatile and it's assuming Gov is back. Looking closer though, we really lack quality wingman and if we decide to push Williams/Kemp/Stock upfield, we lose the 7th defender every side seems to play nowadays.

We lack quality or durability in the following positions:
- 3rd tall defender
- Both wings
- Ruck to compliment TDK and not be a liability

3rd tall defender there's a few solutions: Gov, Marchbank gets fit or we recruit a Talia type and release Jones.

Wings: my biggest worry, don't see an obvious choice. LOB lacks the aggression and consistency, Cottrell lacks the quality, Kemp could play there and my left of field selection is Philp or Honey. Should we decide to play Pitto and TDK is forward I'd consider SOS on a wing.

Interesting you left out Ramsay I think he can develop into a Winger ... i think he is better than I/C in the magoos.

 

[Jimmae]

How do our players compare to the top end at Melbourne.

Jones - May
Weitering - Lever ?
Saad - Salem ?
Stocker - Bowey ✔✔
Docherty - Hibberd ✔
Plowman - Petty

our backline compares really well

TDK - Gawn
Cripps - Viney
Walsh - Oliver ?
Kennedy - Petracca
Curnow - Brayshaw ?
O’Brien/Newnes - Langdon

a lot of losses here. But TDK is getting better. Cripps had a poor year while Walsh will go past Oliver eventually. Add Cerra instead of Curnow and we will start to get closer to breaking even.

McKay - Brown ✔✔
Curnow - McDonald
Honey - Pickett
Owies - Fritsch
Mcgovern - Harmes ?
Fisher - Neal-Bullen

another loss overall but Curnow, honey and McGovern should improve next season. Fishers eat is better than Neal-Bullen but will we see it.

Melbourne’s bench consists of fit two way running role players and a second ruck. Players like Dow, Fogarty, Williams, Silvagni, Williamson and Gibbons are our equivalent which are better than Melbourne’s hands down. Silvagni probably harshly done by not starting over mcgovern/Newnes or Fisher.

our list management has a few holes for 2022. It can be fixed pretty easily in my opinion.

Number 1 - keeping our players on the field with full uninterrupted preseasons
Number 2 - adding Cerra, hewett and a second ruck
Number 3 - a proper game plan that stops exposing our strong backline.

The last one should have huge upsides in all three lines and make us a 5-6 goal better team.

What the * am I reading

What is that midfield head-to-head

I don't like these comparisons at the best of times, but that's a worse shuffle than my Spotify playlist.

TDK vs Gawn
Cripps vs Oliver
Kemp vs Petracca
O'Brien vs Langdon
Ed vs Viney
Walsh vs Brayshaw

Oh and Cuningham, Ramsay, Setterfield, Dow...

 

[TENACIOUS]

He ain't a mid either.

Does some really good work at CHBench

His best is at HF when he can push up into midfield and burst back with speed...
Is he a better choice team wise than Owies, Durdin & Honey? Not sure

 

[Metalcrusher]

Does some really good work at CHBench

His best is at HF when he can push up into midfield and burst back with speed...
Is he a better choice team wise than Owies, Durdin & Honey? Not sure

Bang on ... he is a high half forward with OCCASIONAL stoppages ...

 

[Arr0w]

Voss has said he likes power and contested ability in his side, sounds like we'll finally see some bigger bodies, but doesn't bode well for the likes of LOB, Fisher etc.

Right now, this is my preferred '2022, 22' and reserves with the following caveats:

- Docherty out for a while
- Marchbank will take a while
- Kemp and Williams to be mids
- McGov training all preseason as a defender
- Parks, McDonald, Newnes all retained

FB: McGovern, Weitering, Stocker
HB: Newman, Jones, Saad
C: Kemp, Cerra, Williams
HF: Honey, CCurnow, Martin
FF: Silvagni, McKay, Durdin
R: De Koning, Cripps, Walsh
IC: Dow, Hewett, Cuningham, ECurnow

2nds
FB: Marchbank, McDonald, Plowman
HB: Williamson, Parks, Boyd
C: Cottrell, Setterfield, LOB
HF: Fisher, ????, Fogarty
FF: Owies, ????, Mirkov
R: Pittonet, Kennedy, Carroll
IC: Docherty, Philp, Newnes, Ramsay

Looks like we're covered across the field except forward, but McDonald is very versatile and it's assuming Gov is back. Looking closer though, we really lack quality wingman and if we decide to push Williams/Kemp/Stock upfield, we lose the 7th defender every side seems to play nowadays.

We lack quality or durability in the following positions:
- 3rd tall defender
- Both wings
- Ruck to compliment TDK and not be a liability

3rd tall defender there's a few solutions: Gov, Marchbank gets fit or we recruit a Talia type and release Jones.

Wings: my biggest worry, don't see an obvious choice. LOB lacks the aggression and consistency, Cottrell lacks the quality, Kemp could play there and my left of field selection is Philp or Honey. Should we decide to play Pitto and TDK is forward I'd consider SOS on a wing.

Gov ahead of Plow, bold

Not sure I would have Durdin ahead of Fisher

Like Kemp on a wing

Think Boyd and Ramsay will get games under Voss

 

[Red_man2008]

What the fu** am I reading

What is that midfield head-to-head

I don't like these comparisons at the best of times, but that's a worse shuffle than my Spotify playlist.

TDK vs Gawn
Cripps vs Oliver
Kemp vs Petracca
O'Brien vs Langdon
Ed vs Viney
Walsh vs Brayshaw

Oh and Cuningham, Ramsay, Setterfield, Dow...

How would you like them up. Either way it’s crosses across the board minus Walsh potentially.

 

[Jimmae]

How would you like them up. Either way it’s crosses across the board minus Walsh potentially.

Assuming without Hewett and Cerra:

FB: Docherty Jones Williamson
HB: Williams Weitering Saad
C: Walsh E.Curnow O'Brien
HF: Cuningham C.Curnow Martin
FF: JSOS, McKay, Honey

R: TDK Cripps Dow

Int: Fogarty, Stocker, Kemp

Then for that last spot you can pick from Plowman, Setterfield, Durdin, Ramsay, Fisher, Carroll and Kennedy without being particularly mad about any option.

The list is good, we were just making some horrible selections and not seeking to determine a system of play that best integrates said talent.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If he is in the midfield, we are playing basically a man down in there then. Midfielders are big bulls, he would be an amazing mid at local footy, but unfortunately doesn’t have the frame to play afl midfield.

Out of curiosity, has there been any 70 kilo mids do any good in the afl?

Bolton is probably a similar size.
As others have posted, I think he is a high half forward. Needs to work on his tank but I think he can be very handy pushing up the ground and getting on the edges of the contest.

 

[therubbernub]

Id say Fisher and SPS are in the move on category, just ahead of Dow and LOB.

Fairly consistent sentiment about these 4. This is why I have a problem with the SOS could do no wrong narrative. His first draft he knocked it out of the park-when he concentrated on KPP. But since he switched to building our midfield, he has been average. TBF he got the stocker call right, and walsh... but walsh picked himself really

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Fairly consistent sentiment about these 4. This is why I have a problem with the SOS could do no wrong narrative. His first draft he knocked it out of the park-when he concentrated on KPP. But since he switched to building our midfield, he has been average. TBF he got the stocker call right, and walsh... but walsh picked himself really

With those 4 names in particular, it's like he deliberately set out to recruit a high school team midfield to play against men.

 

[thylacine60]

If he is in the midfield, we are playing basically a man down in there then. Midfielders are big bulls, he would be an amazing mid at local footy, but unfortunately doesn’t have the frame to play afl midfield.

Out of curiosity, has there been any 70 kilo mids do any good in the afl?

 

[JustaBattler]

Fairly consistent sentiment about these 4. This is why I have a problem with the SOS could do no wrong narrative. His first draft he knocked it out of the park-when he concentrated on KPP. But since he switched to building our midfield, he has been average. TBF he got the stocker call right, and walsh... but walsh picked himself really

I think he will end up with Stocker/Kemp and Walsh as big ticks - a lot of experts weren't tipping Walsh ahead of a one or two fancy pantsers if I recall correctly..Rozee was one and wasnt that GC player another.? Hence the 'vanilla' tag...Sos gets some credit for that - hsi conservativism paying off.

Dow/SPS/Fisher/Cuningham/LoB/Kennedy/Setterfield ..
hmmm -

is it too harsh to say - would have expected more much more ?

I can see 2 maybe 3 surviving the next 2 years in the blokes above based on exposed form to date max. Unless they suddnely lift. Rarely happens though.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Voss has said he likes power and contested ability in his side, sounds like we'll finally see some bigger bodies, but doesn't bode well for the likes of LOB, Fisher etc.

Right now, this is my preferred '2022, 22' and reserves with the following caveats:

- Docherty out for a while
- Marchbank will take a while
- Kemp and Williams to be mids
- McGov training all preseason as a defender
- Parks, McDonald, Newnes all retained

FB: McGovern, Weitering, Stocker
HB: Newman, Jones, Saad
C: Kemp, Cerra, Williams
HF: Honey, CCurnow, Martin
FF: Silvagni, McKay, Durdin
R: De Koning, Cripps, Walsh
IC: Dow, Hewett, Cuningham, ECurnow

2nds
FB: Marchbank, McDonald, Plowman
HB: Williamson, Parks, Boyd
C: Cottrell, Setterfield, LOB
HF: Fisher, ????, Fogarty
FF: Owies, ????, Mirkov
R: Pittonet, Kennedy, Carroll
IC: Docherty, Philp, Newnes, Ramsay

Looks like we're covered across the field except forward, but McDonald is very versatile and it's assuming Gov is back. Looking closer though, we really lack quality wingman and if we decide to push Williams/Kemp/Stock upfield, we lose the 7th defender every side seems to play nowadays.

We lack quality or durability in the following positions:
- 3rd tall defender
- Both wings
- Ruck to compliment TDK and not be a liability

3rd tall defender there's a few solutions: Gov, Marchbank gets fit or we recruit a Talia type and release Jones.

Wings: my biggest worry, don't see an obvious choice. LOB lacks the aggression and consistency, Cottrell lacks the quality, Kemp could play there and my left of field selection is Philp or Honey. Should we decide to play Pitto and TDK is forward I'd consider SOS on a wing.

I’ve said it a few times but the way the game is played now you cannot disrespect the wing position by just putting another midfield type there who doesn’t have good footy IQ to know when to go back/forward or block the lane.

Teague tried to do this with Setterfield and it was an unmitigated disaster watching him lope around seemingly unsure of where he should be because, as an inside mid, it doesn’t come naturally to him how to position himself.

Williams and Kemp could possibly play there but I’d far rather one of Cerra or Walsh on one wing with LOB or Philp (who I thought I read somewhere is being groomed to play there) on the other side.

Unless a miracle happens over preseason I’d rather we let Williams play half back where he is more comfortable, whilst I think Voss will need to decide on what he does with Kemp as he looks like a genuine utility.

 

[skadoosh]

I don't understand the hate for Fisher

He didn't have a good year, and has regressed instead of progress - but, he has just had a bad year
The whole team had a bad year, apart from Walsh and Weitering - so, I'm willing to cut Fisher some slack

He's the type of player who would excel in a stronger team
Let's see what he can do under Voss and then we can reassess.

You don't know how much I've come to despise phrases like 'cream on top player'... We've used this phrase for a large number of our players on this forum and I think it's such a cop out.
1. Get the system right. How do we want to win games of football?
2. Make sure our players know what their role in the team is with their eyes closed
3. Each player executes their role, whether in the 1s or 2s.

Players and coaches all need to take responsibility for their own performances.

Review, improve, repeat. No more excuses.

It's about time we got our coaching and evelopmemt in order rather than thinking most of the job is done once you've the trades and new players have been drafted. Where you are drafted or traded from should mean nothing once you step into Ikon Park.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Of course there have been.

Maybe but I don’t think there are many good ones in the current day AFL.
Look at last night mainly taller mids like Oliver, Petracca, the Bont, Macrae and of the small fellas Viney and Libba are strong bodies who would (and probably have) rag doll someone like Fisher.

 

[thylacine60]

Assuming without Hewett and Cerra:

FB: Docherty Jones Williamson
HB: Williams Weitering Saad
C: Walsh E.Curnow O'Brien
HF: Cuningham C.Curnow Martin
FF: JSOS, McKay, Honey

R: TDK Cripps Dow

Int: Fogarty, Stocker, Kemp

Then for that last spot you can pick from Plowman, Setterfield, Durdin, Ramsay, Fisher, Carroll and Kennedy without being particularly mad about any option.

The list is good, we were just making some horrible selections and not seeking to determine a system of play that best integrates said talent.

he's back........

 

[Blue Reaper]

I’m still backing Dow & LOB to make it. Still only 22, Voss has lots to work with and the club’s re-set gives players an opportunity to re-set their careers. Dow has showed enough to build on, and LOB offers a point of difference if he can bring it all together.

Kennedy & Cuningham, at 24 years, are a little more advanced but also poised to take another step.

These four, along with Kemp & Stocker, and throw in potentially Cerra & Hewett, offer a lot of promise if Voss can imprint his brand.