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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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BrutThough said:
I'd be very surprised if we were even considering it.

Seems like a kid who was very happy with his performance last year and assumed it would just carry onto this year. Should be the wake-up call he needs to have a big preseason, get fitter and get back to form next year.
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I think a few of our experts are having another "Blake Acres moment"
 
Joffaboy said:
My strategy would be to keep getting injury prone Sydney midfielders until one comes up trumps
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The last thing our team needs is a aging midfielder past his best , the only midfielders we should be looking at are our young midfielders that we develop from the draft and hopefully we get a couple more this year and if we are looking at a midfielder it should only be for a elite midfielder like a Josh Kelly.
 

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Minga said:
I just wonder where our goals are going to come from. If King continues to grow then he’ll be worth a lot of goals next year but obviously we can’t rely on just him.

I’d like to think that Butler, Higgins, Long, Lonie, Gresh, could be a dangerous group of goal kickers but Gresh has been injured a lot and the rest have shown inconsistencies. Higgins the only one I have full faith in.

Excluding Marshall/Ryder as they aren’t full time forwards, that leaves Membrey and Battle. Not only has Battle been both injured and dropped he also is hardly ever played forward. Membrey is solid but again, seems to be switch back a lot and playing higher up the ground.

Best case scenario:

- Smalls become turn it on and become regular scorers.
- King wins a Coleman and carries the forward line.
- Coaches commit to playing Battle and Membrey forward to always support king.
- Ryder is fit the full season, leaving Marshall in the forward line a lot.
- We land Bing or another killer forward to share the load with Ming.
- Our mids get a hell of a lot more dangerous around goals.
- Sharman and Allison have the best off-season of their lives and replace the roles Battle and Membrey would have if the coach had just played them forward.

As you can probably see, these scenarios seem so out there that they sound like the ravings of a mad man. Just goes to show, what the hell is our plan in attack in 2022??

Goals. Win. Games.
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I don't think that's really a premiership team or even a top 4 one. I initially set out to prove to myself weather we'd actually miss the 3 blokes in question, and to the best I could estimate the answer is only maybe at best "if" we copped another bad injury run in which case we'd struggle anyway as with this year.

I hope the club are brave enough to push our FA's to market and back the group of youngsters which is ready to bloom.
With Clark, Coff, Pato, Byrnes, Connolly, Sharman, Highmore and Bytel we have a solid young group to work with. Rip off the bandaid and move on..
 
_Maximus_12 said:
I'd rather have an injured Hanners on our list $500k, than a healthy Paul Hunter on $100k next year.
We're not attracted a big contract over the summer and at least Hanners adds to the off-field culture of the place.
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How?
Not sure his much vaunted leadership at training has been that helpful as indicated by the way we've played. If he was that much of a leader, and we were paying him anyway, he should also have been on the bench giving instruction the way Roughy has been. Our midfield could certainly have used that at times.
 
_Maximus_12 said:
I'd rather have an injured Hanners on our list $500k, than a healthy Paul Hunter on $100k next year.
We're not attracted a big contract over the summer and at least Hanners adds to the off-field culture of the place.
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If Hannerbery can't play we don't need him at the club , with reduced spots on lists we can't carry someone that doesn't play and they will already have a better replacement for Hunter already and have a developing Heath.

We found out this year we need depth and having 9 experienced players injured for most of the season just doesn't give you any options.
Geary , Frawley , Hannerbery , Carlisle , Roberton , McKernan , Wood , Gresham and Paton.
Hopefully Paton and Gresham recover and have a good season next year but the other 6 or 7 need to be moved on and players who are capable of playing most weeks.

Knowing we have to replace so many players I can't see players like Clavarino , Joyce , Kent being moved on because finding replacements would be a stretch.

Players to move this year Geary , Frawley , Hannerbery , Carlisle , Roberton , McKernan , Alabakis , Hunter.
With Dunstan going as well it will leave 9 positions to fill and 5 will most probably be draft picks and hopefully we pick up some good experienced player's to fill the other positions.
 
Diehard Saint said:
How?
Not sure his much vaunted leadership at training has been that helpful as indicated by the way we've played. If he was that much of a leader, and we were paying him anyway, he should also have been on the bench giving instruction the way Roughy has been. Our midfield could certainly have used that at times.
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I'm pretty sure there would be restrictions on personnel on and around the bench. Anyway who cares, we've move past the Hannebery thing. I can't believe some peeps get soooo hung up on it.
 
Diehard Saint said:
How?
Not sure his much vaunted leadership at training has been that helpful as indicated by the way we've played. If he was that much of a leader, and we were paying him anyway, he should also have been on the bench giving instruction the way Roughy has been. Our midfield could certainly have used that at times.
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Was a joke about his white line fever... Hanners is a pig off the field.
 
Diehard Saint said:
How?
Not sure his much vaunted leadership at training has been that helpful as indicated by the way we've played. If he was that much of a leader, and we were paying him anyway, he should also have been on the bench giving instruction the way Roughy has been. Our midfield could certainly have used that at times.
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This unquantifiable and intangible correlation between Hannebery's leadership and the club's standards only came close to carrying any weight when the club was doing well. I was still skeptical of the claim last year, but it doesn't come close to being valid now. Hannebery has been a woefully bad recruit for the club. 13/60 games is about three times below where it needs to be for any aspects of leadership to mitigate the failure. It is a pity and we all wanted it to be a success but I would hope that club judges itself honestly.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
No other club picked him so maybe he isn't the duck's nuts that some have made him out to be?
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Not many players get a second chance. You have to be pretty lucky to get another go. It must be about about 1% of delisted players that get another crack if that.
 
pebblesofsand said:
There's a couple in the WAFL that look pretty good as well. Their stats look good but the thing we really need to consider is mobility and leap.

The latter seems to be the problem with Hunter. He can get to contests and his size allows him to win a good deal of contests at the lower level but his lack of leap really see's him found out in the AFL.

Is there anyone in WA who can give a progress report on these two. One as a back up ruckman and the other as a tall defender

Luke Strnadica | WAFL

www.wafl.com.au www.wafl.com.au

Blake Schlensog | WAFL

Blake Schlensog | WAFL
www.wafl.com.au www.wafl.com.au
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I was at a game where Claremont’s Olly Eastland smashed Luke Strnadica a couple of weeks ago , around the ground , and in the ruck especially. A big no to Luke from me. When I last seen Schlensog , he was being played as a key forward , and doing very well. Haven’t seen him play as a defender , but needs to put some weight on , because he’ll get “rag dolled” at AFL level. Having ritually looked at all WAFL results as usual , it appears SF have been playing Schenslog as a fwd for about 6 weeks. He is already better than Clav though
 
ScrappyDo said:
I don't think that's really a premiership team or even a top 4 one. I initially set out to prove to myself weather we'd actually miss the 3 blokes in question, and to the best I could estimate the answer is only maybe at best "if" we copped another bad injury run in which case we'd struggle anyway as with this year.

I hope the club are brave enough to push our FA's to market and back the group of youngsters which is ready to bloom.
With Clark, Coff, Pato, Byrnes, Connolly, Sharman, Highmore and Bytel we have a solid young group to work with. Rip off the bandaid and move on..
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Been thinking about this a lot too Scrap.
None of the three FA’s are essential.
In the eyes of some, they have been “Richoed”.
In others, they are bland.
The biggest arguments for retention are either depth, culture, or a sudden and uncharacteristic breakout of form.
Either way, none are arguing that they are fundamental to future success.
There will be at least six list changes again this year. Probably more likely, eight.
If we can get an end of first, a second, and an end of second from these guys I will be more than happy.
That’s #6 (for Erasmus), #19 for the best available key defender, #24 for another mid, then #37 for best available or as insurance for an NGA bid (eg for Owens), then the balance for the NGA kids.
Most likely retaining the likes of Kent, Lonie, Hunter etc as depth and to serve alongside the kids at Sandringham.
Which means that it will have taken Satan four years to get to something like a balanced list.
Plus return to a healthy space within the SC.
2022 then is the year to chase uncontracted or FA players.
 

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AirWinmar said:
Not at afl level
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I think he was playing up at Rochester in what is probably the Goulburn Valley league. I only remember because relatives live near there and it must have stuck in my mind.
 
sunny3193 said:
Been thinking about this a lot too Scrap.
None of the three FA’s are essential.
In the eyes of some, they have been “Richoed”.
In others, they are bland.
The biggest arguments for retention are either depth, culture, or a sudden and uncharacteristic breakout of form.
Either way, none are arguing that they are fundamental to future success.
There will be at least six list changes again this year. Probably more likely, eight.
If we can get an end of first, a second, and an end of second from these guys I will be more than happy.
That’s #6 (for Erasmus), #19 for the best available key defender, #24 for another mid, then #37 for best available or as insurance for an NGA bid (eg for Owens), then the balance for the NGA kids.
Most likely retaining the likes of Kent, Lonie, Hunter etc as depth and to serve alongside the kids at Sandringham.
Which means that it will have taken Satan four years to get to something like a balanced list.
Plus return to a healthy space within the SC.
2022 then is the year to chase uncontracted or FA players.
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Yep this is exactly where I'm at too sunny.
I'm not gonna predict FA compo or selections but I think you're in the ballpark with your estimates and I don't think quibbling over band 2 or 3 is a worthwhile exercise in any case.

Posters are rightly reticent to further weaken our depth, but until we can have 30 players that can genuinely contribute to a premiership year and era then it's of little consequence. I honestly wouldn't be very happy if we land in a GF and have to call up Dean Kent to fill a spot, and so the list build must go on.

I tried and failed to make the point in another thread that our improvement has been sufficient as to render these former stalwarts as redundant or "non fundamental" and that this is the natural and expected outcome of the process that Leathers has driven. To me that fact that Seb, JB and Dunny can legitimately be dispensed with is actually validation and cause for celebration and not something to be shied away from.

Through this mini rebuild we firstly delisted the obvious spuds, then we spent 2 years acquiring better mid aged players whilst making astute selections with late draft picks, and now it's time to say goodbye to the lesser obvious spuds and promote the draftees that have been ticking away in the background.

We will still unfortunately need some old hacks like Punter and co to support our seconds for a time and I'm all for finding an old warhorse mid like Nate Jones or JK for this purpose. I still think 2022 will be a building year with chances of top 4 if all goes well, but it's 2023 when we'd expect the window to open.

With that in mind, and the ever present Bing acquisition, this is the last year we have to go hard at the draft before the curve heads north. We need to do it now. Next year is too late.
 
KingsRansom said:
Wait a minute. So who has missed this year so far? Bytel and that's it, maybe clav. Neither of which have set the world on fire so far. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Not to mention north will spend the next 5 years on the south end of the ladder. Port had 3 first round kids come in and played well straight away.

Think you are just pissing into the wind and grumbling for the sake of it.
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In fairness North has been building and climbing steadily since half way through the season. They'll be better again next year. I wouldn't be taking them lightly (we are in no position to take any team lightly)
 
ScrappyDo said:
Yep this is exactly where I'm at too sunny.
I'm not gonna predict FA compo or selections but I think you're in the ballpark with your estimates and I don't think quibbling over band 2 or 3 is a worthwhile exercise in any case.

Posters are rightly reticent to further weaken our depth, but until we can have 30 players that can genuinely contribute to a premiership year and era then it's of little consequence. I honestly wouldn't be very happy if we land in a GF and have to call up Dean Kent to fill a spot, and so the list build must go on.

I tried and failed to make the point in another thread that our improvement has been sufficient as to render these former stalwarts as redundant or "non fundamental" and that this is the natural and expected outcome of the process that Leathers has driven. To me that fact that Seb, JB and Dunny can legitimately be dispensed with is actually validation and cause for celebration and not something to be shied away from.

Through this mini rebuild we firstly delisted the obvious spuds, then we spent 2 years acquiring better mid aged players whilst making astute selections with late draft picks, and now it's time to say goodbye to the lesser obvious spuds and promote the draftees that have been ticking away in the background.

We will still unfortunately need some old hacks like Punter and co to support our seconds for a time and I'm all for finding an old warhorse mid like Nate Jones or JK for this purpose. I still think 2022 will be a building year with chances of top 4 if all goes well, but it's 2023 when we'd expect the window to open.

With that in mind, and the ever present Bing acquisition, this is the last year we have to go hard at the draft before the curve heads north. We need to do it now. Next year is too late.
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To me Lethers is 3 years in to a pretty full on rebuild. To throw the cards in now seems an overreaction. We have 30 players already taken out of our 45 listed in 2017.

Carlisle, Roberton and Geary nearly certainly done from that remaining 15, Dunstan, Billings, Ross all potentially leave as FAs. Out of the remaining players we have Webster, Battle, Marshall, Steele, Mc Kenzie, Sinclair, Membrey, Gresham. Long and Lonie potentially in trouble too.

To me we have Steele and Marshall are 100% best 22. Sinclair, Gresham if fit, Membrey probably and the rest are GOPs.

Cut too hard and there is not much more cutting to do. Not all our youth and ring ins are going to make it so realistically you can't keep cutting for ever. You need to bond and grow and you potentially lose any culture. Most people seem happy to keep the trash and get rid of the ones that are competitive but limited.
 

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gringo2011 said:
To me Lethers is 3 years in to a pretty full on rebuild. To throw the cards in now seems an overreaction. We have 30 players already taken out of our 45 listed in 2017.

Carlisle, Roberton and Geary nearly certainly done from that remaining 15, Dunstan, Billings, Ross all potentially leave as FAs. Out of the remaining players we have Webster, Battle, Marshall, Steele, Mc Kenzie, Sinclair, Membrey, Gresham. Long and Lonie potentially in trouble too.

To me we have Steele and Marshall are 100% best 22. Sinclair, Gresham if fit, Membrey probably and the rest are GOPs.

Cut too hard and there is not much more cutting to do. Not all our youth and ring ins are going to make it so realistically you can't keep cutting for ever. You need to bond and grow and you potentially lose any culture. Most people seem happy to keep the trash and get rid of the ones that are competitive but limited.
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Agree with that. As quite a few have suggested, you cant cut to the bone. Some of those in the current team are definitely reserves players and back ups including Lonie and they are required to ensure there is competition for spots and keep the ressies strong so that young players can get some good experience before being promoted. I am sure Billings, Dunstan and Ross although good players may not be around much longer if the saints recruit well. There are 3/4 to come back in plus recruits and there is bound to be a change in team structure and methods of play looking forward. One would bloody hope so. The 2 questions are 1. How good is the rebuild? and how long is the rebuild going to take? The end result being continued finals appearances, starting with 2022
 
sunny3193 said:
Most likely retaining the likes of Kent
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ECf2K1T.gif
 
Cut: Sal, Frawley, Carlisle, Hanners, Hunter, Lonie, Robbo.

Trade/FA: Billings and Dunstan. It wouldnt worry me if they dangled Coffield out for a good deal either.

Resign the rest.

Back in the youth.

Target Knarkle, a Key defender and a ruckman in the trade period.

Take 5+ in the drafts and delisted free agency period.

And move Battle back to CHB for F#&$ sake.
 
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_Maximus_12 said:
Why can't we play kids in place of those whose contribution is replaceable? We've seen Port opt for youth over the likes of Rockliff.
North moved on players who's contribution was diminishing, to provide more opportunities to their youth. We continually pick the same types despite their low ceilings. I'd sooner see us give the opportunities to players with scope. Connolly and Byrnes are two examples of young players with scope, however they were played largely by default given our long injury list.
There has been a VFL for as long as I can remember and since 2010 our development has been putrid.
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There isn't anyone left in the 2nds that we should have tried. You want to try and play Alabakis in?
 
The_Steadier said:
Defending. Wins. Flags.
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Is this implying that we aren’t defending well?

Sure it hasn’t been perfect but I give our defence much more props than our forward structure. Think about how many games we have lost because of our inability to get on the scoreboard this year. Think about how many times it’s been said “well if we had just kicked straight we’d be in the eight” etc etc. On the flip side, our defence has been stellar in plenty of games this year. Effort/pressure has been the biggest barometer and we are very inconsistent with that.

What won Carlton the game on Friday? In my eyes, it was their incredibly accurate goal to behind ratio against our utter inability to transition the ball into attack and convert, alongside reliance on King. We won a lot of the major statistics, IMO both defences did what they could. We didn’t stack up to them (in that game) with our attacking style.

Anyhow, I agree that great teams are great defensively, but I reckon it would be silly to think that our attacking structure is in good form. We can’t win flags if we can’t make finals, and we ain’t making the eight with the minuscule amount of scoreboard pressure we apply. For me, it’s one of the biggest things that has changed from the 2020 season.

TLDR: Both. Are. Important.
 
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