Analysis 2021 trade thread

[countryVicLion]

Fort is getting talked about as depth player if Oscar gets injured with Fullarton Lane and Smith not ready to take the number 1 ruckman position if not best 22 what does he really bring when Ceglar can play as a forward and switch hit with the BigO
Briggs seems out of our price range

Operation get Briggs from Giants instead of Fort if Lobb finds his way back to Giants


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[MAYNE!!]

We went 7-0 sans Neale this year. It was in some ways a good thing as our next Gen mid fielders - Clug,Berry etc - had to step up to fill the void.

most of those wins against bottom 8 sides...

 

[Lazza16]

Could be a Birchall replacement. Nice kick IIRC

Was originally a forward til recent

 

[Gadzorks]

I'm double jabbed Gadzorks, just a little light humour.

There's a lot of carrot & stick going on at the moment, but one of the big things with Aussies is they get their back up at being forced to do anything let alone being threatened with job security over it.

Here's a simple solution, come December 1st there will be enough vaccines available that everyone that wants one will have had at least one jab, from this date if you haven't been vaccinated with one dose & you don't have an exemption due to health issues then you forfeit your right for public hospital treatment if you get Covid. Simples. I trust my immune system. No probs, you've made your call then.

Edit: No exemptions for religious reasons either. If you get covid, your god can heal you

Double Edit: This is an even bigger potential derail isn't it.

Lol bigger and could get nastier.

It'd never happen, but as a cancer survivor I agree with the principle (but not the practice) of individual responsibility and priority access to medical care. Look after yourself, and the system will prioritise you when random disasters strike BUT...

where do you stop? Do we not treat obese people with type 2 diabetes, or people who have developed drug addictions? Smokers with CPOD? Car accidents that occur due to speeding? It's too American for me.

Having said that I'm extremely Pro vaccine for myself and my two daughter's who are ICU nurses dreading the covid explosion.

 

[jfn]

There is so much focus on Brisbane getting a second established ruck to support Oscar. Most teams only have the one genuine ruck with another tall as back up. Does Brisbane really need Fort, Briggs, or the likes, and sacrifice both a draft pick and salary. Could Jack Payne or Ballenden pinch hit in the ruck for the 2022 season and possibly 2023 while Smith and Lane develop? Both could again struggle to have permanent places in the best 22 each week as a key forward or key back. They a both the same height and weight, adequate for a back up ruck, and could gain maturity and flexibility in their games. I'm aware aware that if Oscar gets injured it leave a big hole, but every club has that risk. I think the bigger concern is the future planning to replace Rich, Zorko, Robinson, Neale, Lyon, Lester, and Adams in a the future. If the club is looking to plugs some holes in 2022, then they should look at bringing Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

34

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

in as a swingman as Hipwood's replacement and/or Birchell's replacement, and pick up Matthew Hammelmann

Matthew Hammelmann

Age

30

Ht

198cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.4

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.2

4star

MG

133.8

2star

No current season stats available

D

7.8

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

189.8

4star

cheap in the draft. He may not play every game, but he may as well play VFL for the Lions instead of Apsley.

 

[Gadzorks]

There is so much focus on Brisbane getting a second established ruck to support Oscar. Most teams only have the one genuine ruck with another tall as back up. Does Brisbane really need Fort, Briggs, or the likes, and sacrifice both a draft pick and salary. Could Jack Payne or Ballenden pinch hit in the ruck for the 2022 season and possibly 2023 while Smith and Lane develop? Both could again struggle to have permanent places in the best 22 each week as a key forward or key back. They a both the same height and weight, adequate for a back up ruck, and could gain maturity and flexibility in their games. I'm aware aware that if Oscar gets injured it leave a big hole, but every club has that risk. I think the bigger concern is the future planning to replace Rich, Zorko, Robinson, Neale, Lyon, Lester, and Adams in a the future. If the club is looking to plugs some holes in 2022, then they should look at bringing Jack Gunston in as a swingman as Hipwood's replacement and/or Birchell's replacement, and pick up Matthew Hammelmann cheap in the draft. He may not play every game, but he may as well play VFL for the Lions instead of Apsley.

No we don't need another ruck. Unless Oscar get a long term injury.

It's all about managing the risk, which will be prioritised differently by all of us and the coaches and list managers.

That's the joy of footy - we can all think we have the answer, and spend countless hours defending out positions.

 

[jackess]

There is so much focus on Brisbane getting a second established ruck to support Oscar. Most teams only have the one genuine ruck with another tall as back up. Does Brisbane really need Fort, Briggs, or the likes, and sacrifice both a draft pick and salary. Could Jack Payne or Ballenden pinch hit in the ruck for the 2022 season and possibly 2023 while Smith and Lane develop? Both could again struggle to have permanent places in the best 22 each week as a key forward or key back. They a both the same height and weight, adequate for a back up ruck, and could gain maturity and flexibility in their games. I'm aware aware that if Oscar gets injured it leave a big hole, but every club has that risk. I think the bigger concern is the future planning to replace Rich, Zorko, Robinson, Neale, Lyon, Lester, and Adams in a the future. If the club is looking to plugs some holes in 2022, then they should look at bringing Jack Gunston in as a swingman as Hipwood's replacement and/or Birchell's replacement, and pick up Matthew Hammelmann cheap in the draft. He may not play every game, but he may as well play VFL for the Lions instead of Apsley.

We can’t use one list spot as a ruck backup and still develop players on our list to replace the players you mentioned?

 

[blueiris]

According to Jon Ralph we’re massive losers because were doing absolutely nothing to improve because we won’t move salary back into 23 to get someone like Gunston sure Gunston would be nice but I’d rather prefer happy players and not a massive salary FU like Collingwood last year

 

[Elixuh]

According to Jon Ralph we’re massive losers because were doing absolutely nothing to improve because we won’t move salary back into 23 to get someone like Gunston sure Gunston would be nice but I’d rather prefer happy players and not a massive salary FU like Collingwood last year

If that is the feedback we are getting from Jon Ralph then we are probably doing a lot right.

 

[mattsmob]

According to Jon Ralph we’re massive losers because were doing absolutely nothing to improve because we won’t move salary back into 23 to get someone like Gunston sure Gunston would be nice but I’d rather prefer happy players and not a massive salary FU like Collingwood last year

No offence to Jon Ralph as I'm sure the information he gets is pretty good but maybe he should stop at just relaying what he hears from people that actually know what they're talking about.

 

[BangyBangy]

According to Jon Ralph we’re massive losers because were doing absolutely nothing to improve because we won’t move salary back into 23 to get someone like Gunston sure Gunston would be nice but I’d rather prefer happy players and not a massive salary FU like Collingwood last year

This club has been ****ed ever since David Noble left. If only we got Jon Ralph in to replace him, things could've been different.

 

[Squizz89]

I am probably like a few others on here in that I don’t know if our list is quite good enough to win the flag. I’ve stated quite a number of times I believe we are still at least one top class mid short and would have like that filled at least.

However, it seems like the whole landscape has changed and that a lot, if not most clubs can’t afford to go out and break the bank on those types of players (this year anyway).

I would feel a lot worse about our trade period (or lack of) if the other teams around us were bringing in other A grade talent as opposed to the B-C we’ve seen so far.

Covid, it appears really has screwed most things up including the ability to be able to trade for high end talent. I’m not sure wr can sit there and blame the club for that though.

 

[Dalions]

According to Jon Ralph we’re massive losers because were doing absolutely nothing to improve because we won’t move salary back into 23 to get someone like Gunston sure Gunston would be nice but I’d rather prefer happy players and not a massive salary FU like Collingwood last year

Trade for need, Draft for talent!
We need ruck support.

 

[Simba Moyo]

Assuming our forward line for 2022 is:
Linc McStay Cameron
Cockatoo Daniher Rayner

Also guys like Bailey/Zorks/Ah Chee etc that come through, it seems quite unnecessary to bring on Gunston who has been dealing with a back injury all year and only managed one game. Not that he wouldn't add something, but during a time when list spots and salary cap are super tight he would be more of a luxury than a necessity. Hipwood will undoubtedly return at some point during the year and mature ruck depth is far more important.

 

[irel]

196cm
Not that big KF/ruck… but would offer some flexibilty as that third target perhaps?
Was just a question… not likely an option

Listed as a 193cm midfielder on the Saints website.

 

[KennyP#42]

Listed as a 193cm midfielder on the Saints website.

I was talking about brander from the eagles? Haven’t seen any source for it, was purely just a question

 

[lioninthesand]

There is so much focus on Brisbane getting a second established ruck to support Oscar. Most teams only have the one genuine ruck with another tall as back up. Does Brisbane really need Fort, Briggs, or the likes, and sacrifice both a draft pick and salary. Could Jack Payne or Ballenden pinch hit in the ruck for the 2022 season and possibly 2023 while Smith and Lane develop? Both could again struggle to have permanent places in the best 22 each week as a key forward or key back. They a both the same height and weight, adequate for a back up ruck, and could gain maturity and flexibility in their games. I'm aware aware that if Oscar gets injured it leave a big hole, but every club has that risk. I think the bigger concern is the future planning to replace Rich, Zorko, Robinson, Neale, Lyon, Lester, and Adams in a the future. If the club is looking to plugs some holes in 2022, then they should look at bringing Jack Gunston in as a swingman as Hipwood's replacement and/or Birchell's replacement, and pick up Matthew Hammelmann cheap in the draft. He may not play every game, but he may as well play VFL for the Lions instead of Apsley.

If Oscar goes down our season is over. Is there a team in the league who's ruck stocks are as thin as ours?

It is absolutely essential we get an archie type replacement.

 

[Royboy1961]

If Oscar goes down our season is over. Is there a team in the league who's ruck stocks are as thin as ours?

It is absolutely essential we get an archie type replacement.

I reckon if they recruit Fort he will play in the firsts and rotate with Mcinerney through the ruck. Mac will be able to play in the Forward line which will give us the more traditional structure we are use to. Whenever we have been introducing a new ready made recruit in the past few years it has been to play in the 1sts not as a back up. For this reason I believe that Fort will play in the firsts rather be purely as a back up.

 

[Dalions]

If Oscar goes down our season is over. Is there a team in the league who's ruck stocks are as thin as ours?

It is absolutely essential we get an archie type replacement.

I feel pretty certain that Darcy Fort is our man.

 

[briztoon]

There is so much focus on Brisbane getting a second established ruck to support Oscar. Most teams only have the one genuine ruck with another tall as back up.

This is incorrect.

Most teams have a genuine first choice ruck, with many playing a ruck forward as their chop out ruck in their best 22. Or they might play 3 tall forwards, with one providing ruck support. But they also have a backup ruck, or two, and might also have a reserve ruck forward.

It just depends on the ages of the reserve ruck/s.

Richmond last year had 7 players on their list capable of playing ruck (not all ready for AFL level yet).

Our “problem” is, should Oscar go down with anything more than a two week injury, we don’t currently have a player who could replace Oscar adequately, and that might cost us games.

We have neglected adding a young developing ruck or ruck forward, and carried Archie longer than was practicable, once Oscar went past him.

Obviously the club has invested in two young rucks now, but neither are ready to play at senior level if required.

So ideally we need a short term, senior ruck for a season or two.

And as has been mentioned, we don’t appear to have the salary to pay for a better quality ruck.

 

[briztoon]

If Oscar goes down our season is over. Is there a team in the league who's ruck stocks are as thin as ours?

It is absolutely essential we get an archie type replacement.

Geelong and Gold Coast come to mind. Can’t think of too many others off the top of my head.

But that’s different to teams looking for a new starting quality ruck.

 

[martinson]

I'm double jabbed Gadzorks, just a little light humour.

There's a lot of carrot & stick going on at the moment, but one of the big things with Aussies is they get their back up at being forced to do anything let a

This is incorrect.

Most teams have a genuine first choice ruck, with many playing a ruck forward as their chop out ruck in their best 22. Or they might play 3 tall forwards, with one providing ruck support. But they also have a backup ruck, or two, and might also have a reserve ruck forward.

It just depends on the ages of the reserve ruck/s.

Richmond last year had 7 players on their list capable of playing ruck (not all ready for AFL level yet).

Our “problem” is, should Oscar go down with anything more than a two week injury, we don’t currently have a player who could replace Oscar adequately, and that might cost us games.

We have neglected adding a young developing ruck or ruck forward, and carried Archie longer than was practicable, once Oscar went past him.

Obviously the club has invested in two young rucks now, but neither are ready to play at senior level if required.

So ideally we need a short term, senior ruck for a season or two.

And as has been mentioned, we don’t appear to have the salary to pay for a better quality ruck.

I think it's inevitable if we don't think Fullarton and/or Ballenden can be sufficiently improved in the pre season.

Daniher loved playing on the ball but he doesn't seem overkeen on rucking and with Hipwood down we need a tall focal point forward.

We can't really take the risk of Oscar getting injured or exhausted if we think we're a shot at it in 2022.

 

[beardancer]

I think it's inevitable if we don't think Fullarton and/or Ballenden can be sufficiently improved in the pre season.

Daniher loved playing on the ball but he doesn't seem overkeen on rucking and with Hipwood down we need a tall focal point forward.

We can't really take the risk of Oscar getting injured or exhausted if we think we're a shot at it in 2022.

Do we really need another not quite up to the task second ruck?
We've got Fullarton.....we had Archie, and we let him walk. we've got Payne, we've got Smith, we've got Ballenden, and next year we've got Lane who looks, imho, an a grade ruck prospect.
In my opinion we're wasting money and effort on fixing a problem that will be fading by round 10 next year. Smith, Ballenden, Fullarton and Lane will all be bigger, stronger and smarter next year.
We need another A grade midfielder not a VFL quality big man.

 

[martinson]

Do we really need another not quite up to the task second ruck?
We've got Fullarton.....we had Archie, and we let him walk. we've got Payne, we've got Smith, we've got Ballenden, and next year we've got Lane who looks, imho, an a grade ruck prospect.
In my opinion we're wasting money and effort on fixing a problem that will be fading by round 10 next year. Smith, Ballenden, Fullarton and Lane will all be bigger, stronger and smarter next year.
We need another A grade midfielder not a VFL quality big man.

That sounds a reasonable take Beardancer except if Oscar went down like say Hipwood did I wouldn't fancy any of the others having much impact through a whole season. They'd all be a big liability as first ruck.

It's important you have at least one player in your team who's competitive in the ruck and could go 80% TOG at it.

 

[briztoon]

Do we really need another not quite up to the task second ruck?
We've got Fullarton.....we had Archie, and we let him walk. we've got Payne, we've got Smith, we've got Ballenden, and next year we've got Lane who looks, imho, an a grade ruck prospect.
In my opinion we're wasting money and effort on fixing a problem that will be fading by round 10 next year. Smith, Ballenden, Fullarton and Lane will all be bigger, stronger and smarter next year.
We need another A grade midfielder not a VFL quality big man.

Fullerton is not a ruck. I’m becoming less and less confident he makes it in football.

Payne is a defender. I’ve never seen him ruck, at under age level, or even at training. May as well have mentioned Andrews ahead of Payne as a potential ruck.

Ballenden “might” come good, but he’s currently out of contract and is waiting on the clubs off-season moves to see if he’s offered another deal. He still needs to add some aggression and core strength to compete in the ruck.

Smith hasn’t even turned 19 yet, and is probably two years away from thinking about getting a game at AFL level.

Lane hasn’t spent 6 months in the system yet, and while a year older than Smith, is also a ways off from being ready to play at the top level.