List Mgmt. 2022 Draft Thread - Part I

[George]

Sticking this at the top of each page. If it gets annoying, let me know and I can just put it in the original post of the thread. Credit to Lore

 

[Yawkey way]

The thing is if you're flying yourself you don't worry about what everyone else is doing. It's hard when everything is so labour intensive for us to even get the basics right, to then watch others drowning in riches.

We have done some idiotic things and the AFL see us as the s**t kid who's always ringing up for loan because they went to the pokies with their dole cheque. The good kids get nice presents and formal invitation to every event, we get the abrasive phone call saying that we don't have to come if we're busy.

Sides tend to make their own luck in this industry and sides that do come good get the prime fixtures and the advertising focussed on them etc. We have to do the hard work first because no-one is coming to save us from ourselves at the end of the day.

Yep we’re in a tough place, not rebuild bad but not a genuine threat. I liked it when brain Waldron said we’re really looking to recruit guys who can play 200 games for us. We might win a few more games taking short cuts but we’re kidding ourselves if we make anymore hill like trades imo. I wonder if your boy poulter is avaliable, someone’s going to be short changed if they pay degoey.

 

[botts]

https://t.co/6XfDtABHdG

Can anyone link this

 

[BrutThough]

https://t.co/6XfDtABHdG

Can anyone link this

Climbers and sliders from U18 national championships​

Plenty of draft prospects are bolting up the board after nationals, including, the son of a former Pie and Blue and the brother of a Power big man. See all the climbers and sliders.

CLIMBERS​

Lewis Hayes (Vic Metro/Eastern Ranges)​

A 197cm intercepting defender, Hayes hit some red-hot form at the right time of year during the national championships. A finger injury on the eve of Round 1 meant he had a slow start to the NAB League season, but AFL clubs had kept a close eye on him over the past two years and were excited by what they saw when Hayes lined up for Vic Metro. The younger brother of Port Adelaide ruckman Sam Hayes, he was particularly impressive against Western Australia in Vic Metro’s second game, when he logged 19 disposals, five marks, eight rebound 50s and six intercepts. Across three championship matches so far, he has averaged 15.7 disposals, 5.3 rebound 50s, five marks and 7.3 intercept possessions.

Matthew Jefferson (Vic Metro/Oakleigh Chargers)​

Jefferson was marked as a promising draft prospect late last year when he was included in the initial NAB AFL Academy squad. However, the 194cm key forward has pushed himself up into top-10 calculations after a sizzling national championships campaign with Vic Metro. Jefferson has drawn comparisons to young Essendon forward Harrison Jones – who is an AFL player that he looks up to. His marking ability in the air has been a feature of his year, while his goal kicking has also improved and recruiters have been impressed with his ability to keep himself in games. Jefferson has averaged 10.3 disposals, four marks and kicked 12 goals from three national championships games.

Mattaes Phillipou (South Australia/Woodville-West Torrens)​

A damaging midfielder-forward who stands 191cm, Phillipou stamped himself as a first-round draft prospect after he was one of South Australia’s top performers in the national championships. Phillipou was best-on-ground in his state’s first match against the Allies, logging 23 disposals, six marks, five clearances, six tackles and two goals to catch the eyes of recruiters. The son of Sam Phillipou – who played with the Western Bulldogs and was a prominent player in the SANFL – he is a strong contest player and good overhead mark. Phillipou is viewed as South Australia’s best prospect in this year’s draft pool.

Aaron Cadman (Vic Country/GWV Rebels)​

A lead-up key forward who has drawn comparisons to Geelong’s Jeremy Cameron, the Darley product made an up and down start to the year in the NAB League but showed what he is capable of on the big stage in the national championships. He logged 19 disposals, took eight marks and kicked 3.3 among nine score involvements in Vic Country’s third game against Western Australia. Standing 194cm tall, Cadman is a strong runner with good speed, marks the ball well and has a damaging left-foot kick. Some recruiters have Cadman pinned as the best key position prospect in this year’s draft and a potential top-five selection in a pool stacked with midfielders but short on talls.

Josh Weddle (Vic Metro/Oakleigh Chargers)​

A 191cm defender, a significant growth spurt over the past 18 months has seen Weddle jump into the frame as a potential top-30 draft prospect this year. He is a good interceptor down back – generally used as a third-tall – and uses the ball well when he wins it back. Weddle is athletically very strong, has explosive speed and can play on talls or smalls. He has also shown an ability to play forward and even have a run through the midfield. Weddle has averaged 14.7 disposals, 4.7 marks and 6.7 intercept possessions across three under-18 national championships games.

Olli Hotton (Vic Metro/Sandringham Dragons)​

A 181cm small forward, Hotton has great footy smarts and has emerged as a top-30 draft prospect after a strong national championships campaign for Vic Metro. Hotton did not start the NAB League season on fire for the Dragons by any stretch, but showed a few glimpses of his potential. He is clean around stoppages and has good speed. Hotton has averaged 19.3 disposals, 3.3 marks, 6.3 score involvements and two goals across three national championships matches, including 24 disposals and 3.2 in the third of those games against South Australia. He is the son of former Collingwood and Carlton forward Trent Hotton, who played 78 AFL games in the 1990s and early 2000s.

Reuben Ginbey (Western Australia/East Perth) ​

One of Western Australia’s top draft prospects, Ginbey had primarily been a medium-sized defender before being used through the midfield during the under-18 national championships. Recruiters were excited by what he was able to show as a big-bodied onballer. Standing 188cm, he is a player with elite speed and endurance but is also a bull in the content. Across four national championships games, he averaged 20.8 disposals, 2.8 clearances, 5.5 score involvements and four tackles to win his state’s most valuable player award and stamp himself as a first-round draft prospect.

Tom McCullum (Allies/Clarence)​

A 192cm defender, McCullum shot up the rankings in the eyes of recruiters with what he was able to do down back for the Allies during the under-18 national championships. Known for his intercept marking, the Tasmanian averaged 7.3 marks including 3.8 intercept marks across his four matches. He also showed great composure with ball in hand when he won it back, rarely wasting a disposal by hand or foot. An elite runner, McCullum also has the ability to break the lines with bursts of speed and averaged four rebound 16.8 disposals and four rebound 50s during the tournament. He sits as one of Tasmania’s top draft prospects, alongside fellow defender Lachie Cowan.

SLIDERS​

Harry Lemmey (South Australia/West Adelaide)​

A 199cm key forward, Lemmey was a strong performer for West Adelaide as a bottom-age player in the SANFL under 18s last year and made a good start to this season which included a taste of senior football. However, he did not perform as he would have liked for South Australia in the under-18 national championships. Across three games, the AFL Academy member averaged only 5.3 disposals and kicked one goal. Recruiters are still confident Lemmey will find a home in November’s national draft, but just not as the top-30 selection he might have been earmarked for at the start of the year. At the end of the day, though, where you are picked is just a number.

Tom Scully (South Australia/West Adelaide)​

A 202cm key forward, Scully was added to the AFL Academy squad in May after a super start to the season in the SANFL under 18s which saw him kick 22 goals from his first four games. However, his form has not been quite so good since and he was picked for only one of South Australia’s four games in the under-18 national championships. Scully managed just eight disposals, two marks and two behinds in that match. Big men take time and there is no doubt there is some talent there. Like Lemmey, recruiters are still confident Scully will be picked up in the national draft, but just not as high in the order as he was tracking early in the year.

Jackson Broadbent (Western Australia/Peel Thunder)​

There was a bit of excitement about the 204cm ruckman leading into the under-18 national championships, but unfortunately he was picked for only two games for Western Australia and didn’t produce the kind of performances he is capable of. Broadbent averaged only eight disposals and 11 hitouts from his two matches, well short of his eye-catching efforts in the WAFL Colts competition this year. Broadbent was, however, a strong performer for the Australian under-18 team in its match against Collingwood’s VFL side in May, recording 17 disposals and 15 hitouts. That match won’t be forgotten by recruiters when they sit down to assess where he stands in the order.

The Sidelined Stars (Various) ​

Injuries robbed a number of players of the opportunity to show what they’ve got against the country’s best in the under-18 national championships.

But many might not be too greatly affected by their absences.

Vic Metro pair Elijah Tsatas (foot) and George Wardlaw (hamstring) are still in calculations to be top-three picks in the national draft.

However, recruiters are keen to see some more of other highly-rated prospects including Luke Teal (collarbone), Jack O’Sullivan (collarbone), Brayden George (knee) and Bailey Humphrey (knee) to assist in working out where they sit in the draft order.

 

[gringo2011]

Ginbey has some real appeal.

"big-bodied onballer. Standing 188cm, he is a player with elite speed and endurance but is also a bull in the content. Across four national championships games, he averaged 20.8 disposals, 2.8 clearances, 5.5 score involvements and four tackles to win his state’s most valuable player award and stamp himself as a first-round draft prospect."

That sounds like everything we could dream of.

 

[StCicatriz]

Ginbey has some real appeal.

"big-bodied onballer. Standing 188cm, he is a player with elite speed and endurance but is also a bull in the content. Across four national championships games, he averaged 20.8 disposals, 2.8 clearances, 5.5 score involvements and four tackles to win his state’s most valuable player award and stamp himself as a first-round draft prospect."

That sounds like everything we could dream of.

Can he play HBF

 

[gringo2011]

Can he play HBF

Check, was a medium defender who has transitioned into a mid. He's from your neck of the woods, have you seen anything of him? Usually the good WA kids get hyped before they get to the draft.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Ginbey has some real appeal.

Strange name.

Is he Rebecca Gibney's dyslexic son? [emoji848]

 

[StCicatriz]

Check, was a medium defender who has transitioned into a mid. He's from your neck of the woods, have you seen anything of him? Usually the good WA kids get hyped before they get to the draft.

havent it followed it miuch anymore

 

[DGontheQT]

From the start of 2019 to today , our club has had only 2 weekly nominees for the Rising Star Award. Josh Battle

24

Josh Battle

Age

27

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

and Max King

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

. Windhager might get one before the year is out , but that would give us 3 out of 88 odd. If Windy gets snubbed that would mean our average is 1 every 44 noms , which , even when used as a rough guide , shows how poor our list management / recruiting has been. If trading out a Jones or a Billings gets our draft picks up the order a bit , I’d pull the trigger in a heartbeat. No point waiting for the rot to set in.

 

[botts]

From the start of 2019 to today , our club has had only 2 weekly nominees for the Rising Star Award. Josh Battle and Max King. Windhager might get one before the year is out , but that would give us 3 out of 88 odd. If Windy gets snubbed that would mean our average is 1 every 44 noms , which , even when used as a rough guide , shows how poor our list management / recruiting has been. If trading out a Jones or a Billings gets our draft picks up the order a bit , I’d pull the trigger in a heartbeat. No point waiting for the rot to set in.

we did basically sell all our draft picks for two years after we grabbed king in 2018. In saying that Sharman was robbed a nom last year and both windy and Mitch have deserved them for games this year. Just unlucky On timing

 

[gringo2011]

From the start of 2019 to today , our club has had only 2 weekly nominees for the Rising Star Award. Josh Battle and Max King. Windhager might get one before the year is out , but that would give us 3 out of 88 odd. If Windy gets snubbed that would mean our average is 1 every 44 noms , which , even when used as a rough guide , shows how poor our list management / recruiting has been. If trading out a Jones or a Billings gets our draft picks up the order a bit , I’d pull the trigger in a heartbeat. No point waiting for the rot to set in.

Then use those picks for more younger spuds, what could go wrong.

 

[gringo2011]

we did basically sell all our draft picks for two years after we grabbed king in 2018. In saying that Sharman was robbed a nom last year and both windy and Mitch have deserved them for games this year. Just unlucky On timing

Sharman yes, Windy and Owens are the best youth we've had in years but still not as good as others who've been nominated.

 

[Veer Right]

From the start of 2019 to today , our club has had only 2 weekly nominees for the Rising Star Award. Josh Battle and Max King. Windhager might get one before the year is out , but that would give us 3 out of 88 odd. If Windy gets snubbed that would mean our average is 1 every 44 noms , which , even when used as a rough guide , shows how poor our list management / recruiting has been. If trading out a Jones or a Billings gets our draft picks up the order a bit , I’d pull the trigger in a heartbeat. No point waiting for the rot to set in.

I couldn't be any more confident in Owens and Windy both becoming top class especially Owens and nor would i even think about swapping either of them for any player that isn't named N.Daicos.

We may not have the rising star noms but i can see all four players becoming AA at some point. Hopefully sooner rather then later.

+1 trading Billings and Jones. Hope we do it.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Sharman yes, Windy and Owens are the best youth we've had in years but still not as good as others who've been nominated.

they're as good as some of the other nominations but have just been pipped on the week. If they played some of their games on a different week they'd be a shoe in.

Obviously they're nowhere near the rising star winner Daicos but he looks like All Australian 40.

 

[gringo2011]

they're as good as some of the other nominations but have just been pipped on the week. If they played some of their games on a different week they'd be a shoe in.

Obviously they're nowhere near the rising star winner Daicos but he looks like All Australian 40.

None have had that break out game where you just went wow. Cumberland kicked 5 goals and looked like the spark that won them the match when he got it for example. He stood out like dogs balls. Our guys have snippets but Owens best game was 14 possessions and two goals. It looked a very good day out but it wasn't a kick the door in performance.

Windhager probably could have got one for the game against WC, 23 disposals and a goal but that was the week Jamara put on a clinic including the match winning goal in a bag of 5 in the game against the reigning premier.

They haven't had a stand out BOG type performance but that's probably also the reason we got them cheap. I'm still very confident that both have a elite traits and have ceilings as high as anyone not named Max King at the club.

Nas is probably the most eye catching of our kids but hasn't really just exploded in a game again. he seems to have had 22 touches against Sydney though so he's on the right path.

 

[stfan]

Our list is dire in terms of very good young talent.

This year we got Nasiah, Windy and Owens who all look ok. Not often we can say this after a draft intake.

However the harsh reality is that many clubs gained way better, and also do it most years.


At present our middling list is propped up as that by the mature age middling players we keep drafting in...

Cats bring in mature agers too...but are good players.

 

[gringo2011]

Our list is dire in terms of very good young talent.

This year we got Nasiah, Windy and Owens who all look ok. Not often we can say this after a draft intake.

However the harsh reality is that many clubs gained way better, and also do it most years.


At present our middling list is propped up as that by the mature age middling players we keep drafting in...

Cats bring in mature agers too...but are good players.

This list is going to have to be the one we take to finals and hope holds together. Kids will help save us from a drop off and hopefully a few jump up but I think we have about a 3 season window so probably need to keep topping up at the same time.


Playing more games together and topping it up is going to have to push us up a rung IMO.

 

[botts]

There are good kids in every draft problem is we have traded some many picks out we have never got them. Also we don’t play them when we do. Had a really good sugar hit with the kids this year. I seriously hope we hit the draft again hard this year

 

[Diehard Saint]

Sharman yes, Windy and Owens are the best youth we've had in years but still not as good as others who've been nominated.

Well, let’s remember the Brisbane Lions player (so good, I’ve forgotten his name ) who won the whole damn thing and has since disappeared into the ether…

 

[gringo2011]

Well, let’s remember the Brisbane Lions player (so good, I’ve forgotten his name ) who won the whole damn thing and has since disappeared into the ether…

Lewis Taylor, still goes okay in Sydney's VFL side. Don't know if they've ever given him a senior game though.

 

[StCicatriz]

Our list is dire in terms of very good young talent.

This year we got Nasiah, Windy and Owens who all look ok. Not often we can say this after a draft intake.

However the harsh reality is that many clubs gained way better, and also do it most years.


At present our middling list is propped up as that by the mature age middling players we keep drafting in...

Cats bring in mature agers too...but are good players.

100% this

 

[sunny3193]

None have had that break out game where you just went wow. Cumberland kicked 5 goals and looked like the spark that won them the match when he got it for example. He stood out like dogs balls. Our guys have snippets but Owens best game was 14 possessions and two goals. It looked a very good day out but it wasn't a kick the door in performance.

Windhager probably could have got one for the game against WC, 23 disposals and a goal but that was the week Jamara put on a clinic including the match winning goal in a bag of 5 in the game against the reigning premier.

They haven't had a stand out BOG type performance but that's probably also the reason we got them cheap. I'm still very confident that both have a elite traits and have ceilings as high as anyone not named Max King at the club.

Nas is probably the most eye catching of our kids but hasn't really just exploded in a game again. he seems to have had 22 touches against Sydney though so he's on the right path.

Yes, but stand out performances don’t necessarily translate into champions.
Your boy Stephenson, now at North, is an example.
One of many, many more.

 

[gringo2011]

Yes, but stand out performances don’t necessarily translate into champions.
Your boy Stephenson, now at North, is an example.
One of many, many more.

Still think Stephenson is just in the wrong place. He's still got star traits but just playing off broadway and unmotivated.

 

[MordySaint]

Climbers and sliders from U18 national championships​

Plenty of draft prospects are bolting up the board after nationals, including, the son of a former Pie and Blue and the brother of a Power big man. See all the climbers and sliders.

CLIMBERS​

Lewis Hayes (Vic Metro/Eastern Ranges)​

A 197cm intercepting defender, Hayes hit some red-hot form at the right time of year during the national championships. A finger injury on the eve of Round 1 meant he had a slow start to the NAB League season, but AFL clubs had kept a close eye on him over the past two years and were excited by what they saw when Hayes lined up for Vic Metro. The younger brother of Port Adelaide ruckman Sam Hayes, he was particularly impressive against Western Australia in Vic Metro’s second game, when he logged 19 disposals, five marks, eight rebound 50s and six intercepts. Across three championship matches so far, he has averaged 15.7 disposals, 5.3 rebound 50s, five marks and 7.3 intercept possessions.

Matthew Jefferson (Vic Metro/Oakleigh Chargers)​

Jefferson was marked as a promising draft prospect late last year when he was included in the initial NAB AFL Academy squad. However, the 194cm key forward has pushed himself up into top-10 calculations after a sizzling national championships campaign with Vic Metro. Jefferson has drawn comparisons to young Essendon forward Harrison Jones – who is an AFL player that he looks up to. His marking ability in the air has been a feature of his year, while his goal kicking has also improved and recruiters have been impressed with his ability to keep himself in games. Jefferson has averaged 10.3 disposals, four marks and kicked 12 goals from three national championships games.

Mattaes Phillipou (South Australia/Woodville-West Torrens)​

A damaging midfielder-forward who stands 191cm, Phillipou stamped himself as a first-round draft prospect after he was one of South Australia’s top performers in the national championships. Phillipou was best-on-ground in his state’s first match against the Allies, logging 23 disposals, six marks, five clearances, six tackles and two goals to catch the eyes of recruiters. The son of Sam Phillipou – who played with the Western Bulldogs and was a prominent player in the SANFL – he is a strong contest player and good overhead mark. Phillipou is viewed as South Australia’s best prospect in this year’s draft pool.

Aaron Cadman (Vic Country/GWV Rebels)​

A lead-up key forward who has drawn comparisons to Geelong’s Jeremy Cameron, the Darley product made an up and down start to the year in the NAB League but showed what he is capable of on the big stage in the national championships. He logged 19 disposals, took eight marks and kicked 3.3 among nine score involvements in Vic Country’s third game against Western Australia. Standing 194cm tall, Cadman is a strong runner with good speed, marks the ball well and has a damaging left-foot kick. Some recruiters have Cadman pinned as the best key position prospect in this year’s draft and a potential top-five selection in a pool stacked with midfielders but short on talls.

Josh Weddle (Vic Metro/Oakleigh Chargers)​

A 191cm defender, a significant growth spurt over the past 18 months has seen Weddle jump into the frame as a potential top-30 draft prospect this year. He is a good interceptor down back – generally used as a third-tall – and uses the ball well when he wins it back. Weddle is athletically very strong, has explosive speed and can play on talls or smalls. He has also shown an ability to play forward and even have a run through the midfield. Weddle has averaged 14.7 disposals, 4.7 marks and 6.7 intercept possessions across three under-18 national championships games.

Olli Hotton (Vic Metro/Sandringham Dragons)​

A 181cm small forward, Hotton has great footy smarts and has emerged as a top-30 draft prospect after a strong national championships campaign for Vic Metro. Hotton did not start the NAB League season on fire for the Dragons by any stretch, but showed a few glimpses of his potential. He is clean around stoppages and has good speed. Hotton has averaged 19.3 disposals, 3.3 marks, 6.3 score involvements and two goals across three national championships matches, including 24 disposals and 3.2 in the third of those games against South Australia. He is the son of former Collingwood and Carlton forward Trent Hotton, who played 78 AFL games in the 1990s and early 2000s.

Reuben Ginbey (Western Australia/East Perth) ​

One of Western Australia’s top draft prospects, Ginbey had primarily been a medium-sized defender before being used through the midfield during the under-18 national championships. Recruiters were excited by what he was able to show as a big-bodied onballer. Standing 188cm, he is a player with elite speed and endurance but is also a bull in the content. Across four national championships games, he averaged 20.8 disposals, 2.8 clearances, 5.5 score involvements and four tackles to win his state’s most valuable player award and stamp himself as a first-round draft prospect.

Tom McCullum (Allies/Clarence)​

A 192cm defender, McCullum shot up the rankings in the eyes of recruiters with what he was able to do down back for the Allies during the under-18 national championships. Known for his intercept marking, the Tasmanian averaged 7.3 marks including 3.8 intercept marks across his four matches. He also showed great composure with ball in hand when he won it back, rarely wasting a disposal by hand or foot. An elite runner, McCullum also has the ability to break the lines with bursts of speed and averaged four rebound 16.8 disposals and four rebound 50s during the tournament. He sits as one of Tasmania’s top draft prospects, alongside fellow defender Lachie Cowan.

SLIDERS​

Harry Lemmey (South Australia/West Adelaide)​

A 199cm key forward, Lemmey was a strong performer for West Adelaide as a bottom-age player in the SANFL under 18s last year and made a good start to this season which included a taste of senior football. However, he did not perform as he would have liked for South Australia in the under-18 national championships. Across three games, the AFL Academy member averaged only 5.3 disposals and kicked one goal. Recruiters are still confident Lemmey will find a home in November’s national draft, but just not as the top-30 selection he might have been earmarked for at the start of the year. At the end of the day, though, where you are picked is just a number.

Tom Scully (South Australia/West Adelaide)​

A 202cm key forward, Scully was added to the AFL Academy squad in May after a super start to the season in the SANFL under 18s which saw him kick 22 goals from his first four games. However, his form has not been quite so good since and he was picked for only one of South Australia’s four games in the under-18 national championships. Scully managed just eight disposals, two marks and two behinds in that match. Big men take time and there is no doubt there is some talent there. Like Lemmey, recruiters are still confident Scully will be picked up in the national draft, but just not as high in the order as he was tracking early in the year.

Jackson Broadbent (Western Australia/Peel Thunder)​

There was a bit of excitement about the 204cm ruckman leading into the under-18 national championships, but unfortunately he was picked for only two games for Western Australia and didn’t produce the kind of performances he is capable of. Broadbent averaged only eight disposals and 11 hitouts from his two matches, well short of his eye-catching efforts in the WAFL Colts competition this year. Broadbent was, however, a strong performer for the Australian under-18 team in its match against Collingwood’s VFL side in May, recording 17 disposals and 15 hitouts. That match won’t be forgotten by recruiters when they sit down to assess where he stands in the order.

The Sidelined Stars (Various) ​

Injuries robbed a number of players of the opportunity to show what they’ve got against the country’s best in the under-18 national championships.

But many might not be too greatly affected by their absences.

Vic Metro pair Elijah Tsatas (foot) and George Wardlaw (hamstring) are still in calculations to be top-three picks in the national draft.

However, recruiters are keen to see some more of other highly-rated prospects including Luke Teal (collarbone), Jack O’Sullivan (collarbone), Brayden George (knee) and Bailey Humphrey (knee) to assist in working out where they sit in the draft order.

Like the look of Mattaes Phillipou



Tall midfielder pushing forward

Look at that beautiful left foot kick and goal from outside 50m.

 

[gringo2011]

Like the look of Mattaes Phillipou



Tall midfielder pushing forward

Look at that beautiful left foot kick and goal from outside 50m.

Looks top 6, doubt he drifts out.