List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Mutineer]

Has the season started?

If you think Fogarty and Himmelberg are going to have a break out year in 2022 then you're a supreme optimist....

Fogarty coming up for his 4th year on the list and yet to show much at all apart from having a super boot, this is not some skinny, gangly, tall kid that needed time to develop physically.

Himmelberg coming up for his 5th year on our list and yet to even come close to cementing a best 22 spot.

So yes I think supporters have to be very pessimistic about them being a solution to our forward line into the future given Tex is close to the end.

 

[Cap]

A legitimate A grade KPF is looking to be an absolute must with Fogarty and Himmelberg continuing to under perform.

To be honest for me it's all about midfielders

 

[Mutineer]

To be honest for me it's all about midfielders

Midfielders : Laird, Crouch, Keays, Sloane Schoenberg, Dawson, Seedsman, Hately, Cook, Pedlar, Berry, Sholl, Soligo, Taylor.
Mid/Forwards : Rachele, McHenry, Gollant, Nankervis
Key Forwards : Walker, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Himmelberg

 

[Vader]

Midfielders : Laird, Crouch, Keays, Sloane Schoenberg, Dawson, Seedsman, Hately, Cook, Pedlar, Berry, Sholl, Soligo, Taylor.
Mid/Forwards : Rachele, McHenry, Gollant, Nankervis
Key Forwards : Walker, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Himmelberg

Sloane won't be around much longer, and Hately doesn't appear likely to make it, so that's two off your list (assuming we're talking about our team by the time we're pushing for finals again).

I do agree though, that we have a lot more young midfielders pressing for selection - whereas most of our younger key forwards (primarily Fog & Berg) haven't shown a lot to date.

 

[George CantStandYa]

If you think Fogarty and Himmelberg are going to have a break out year in 2022 then you're a supreme optimist....

Fogarty coming up for his 4th year on the list and yet to show much at all apart from having a super boot, this is not some skinny, gangly, tall kid that needed time to develop physically.

Himmelberg coming up for his 5th year on our list and yet to even come close to cementing a best 22 spot.

So yes I think supporters have to be very pessimistic about them being a solution to our forward line into the future given Tex is close to the end.

Fogarty had some decent games towards the end of last year and with Burgess hopefully he has improved his fitness. He's a KPF in his fourth year and you know they take time.

Himmelberg also had some decent games when he came back. But is currently injured which is a shame.

I am not saying either will make it, but to put a line through them without a game even being played is harsh. As for finding a mature KPF that we want to build a side around, where you getting him from? You must also mark Hamish down given what you think of a our KPF players, are you?

 

[Scorpus]

There's no point going after a mature KPF until we are a finals side and can grab one as a free agent in their prime

 

[Mutineer]

Fogarty had some decent games towards the end of last year and with Burgess hopefully he has improved his fitness. He's a KPF in his fourth year and you know they take time.

Himmelberg also had some decent games when he came back. But is currently injured which is a shame.

I am not saying either will make it, but to put a line through them without a game even being played is harsh. As for finding a mature KPF that we want to build a side around, where you getting him from? You must also mark Hamish down given what you think of a our KPF players, are you?

Everyone on this board almost to a man would have had a complete meltdown if we didn't take Fogarty when he slipped through to us....the fact is when they say KPF's take time to develop it's almost always to do with physical development more than any other development issue, that is most certainly not the case with Fogarty, he's been a brick outhouse from day 1.

To bring some perspective to the Himmelberg selection he was taken at pick 51 and was a gangly tall prospect that was goung to need some time to develop physically but that time has long past...it's well and truly shape up or ship out for him IMO.

You don't think 2022 is just about last saloon time for these players, especially Himmelberg?

 

[Vader]

KPFs are a lot more expensive, and harder to obtain, if you choose to go down the trade/FA path, instead of drafting them.

The facts are that Fog & Berg look like dud investments at this point in time. That may change, but for now they're not looking overly promising. Thilthorpe showed a lot of promise last year, but he's only a 2nd year kid now, and we shouldn't be expecting him to take the world on his shoulders just yet.

By all reports, there are a number of quality KPFs in this year's draft class. We stocked up on midfielders in 2021, so it's time to go tall again in 2022.

 

[Vader]

You don't think 2022 is just about last saloon time for these players, especially Himmelberg?

The only reason I'd argue against this is the lack of viable alternatives on our list.

Walker is due to retire at the end of the year. Frampton has proven himself to be a complete liability in the forward line - he appears moderately competent in defence, but he needs to stay out of the F50 while his bum points to the ground.

That leaves just Thilthorpe, Fog & Berg as the only tall forwards on our list - and neither Fog, nor Berg, have shown enough to date. If we delist Berg, then that leaves us with just Thilthorpe & Fog, with Fog in the "last chance saloon" when his contract expires in 2023. The cupboard is bare, so the question is whether we can afford to be delisting Berg this year?

 

[Scorpus]

Play Reilly O'Brien

43

Reilly O'brien

Age

29

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.4

4star

K

5.9

2star

HB

8.5

5star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

23.8

5star

D

14.4

3star

K

5.9

2star

HB

8.5

4star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

23.8

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

24.8

5star

forward and Strachan in the ruck

 

[Vader]

Play Reilly O'Brien forward and Strachan in the ruck

Have you seen ROB kick for goal? When he's kicking from the top of the goal square, fans at the 50m boundary arcs get ready to catch the ball.

 

[Cap]

Midfielders : Laird, Crouch, Keays, Sloane Schoenberg, Dawson, Seedsman, Hately, Cook, Pedlar, Berry, Sholl, Soligo, Taylor.
Mid/Forwards : Rachele, McHenry, Gollant, Nankervis
Key Forwards : Walker, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Himmelberg

That list doesn't fill me with any confidence that the ball gets down there enough to score.

I guess, why not both?

 

[Mutineer]

The only reason I'd argue against this is the lack of viable alternatives on our list.

Walker is due to retire at the end of the year. Frampton has proven himself to be a complete liability in the forward line - he appears moderately competent in defence, but he needs to stay out of the F50 while his bum points to the ground.

That leaves just Thilthorpe, Fog & Berg as the only tall forwards on our list - and neither Fog, nor Berg, have shown enough to date. If we delist Berg, then that leaves us with just Thilthorpe & Fog, with Fog in the "last chance saloon" when his contract expires in 2023. The cupboard is bare, so the question is whether we can afford to be delisting Berg this year?

If Walker comes back OK and continues his 2021 form give him another year.

Unless Himmelberg has a big turnaround form wise this season there is likeky a youngish State League KPF we could rookie that would offer as much or more than Himmelberg circa 2021.

 

[WeeBlake]

KPFs are a lot more expensive, and harder to obtain, if you choose to go down the trade/FA path, instead of drafting them.

Ben Brown

 

[Vader]

If Walker comes back OK and continues his 2021 form give him another year.

Unless Himmelberg has a big turnaround form wise this season there is likeky a youngish State League KPF we could rookie that would offer as much or more than Himmelberg circa 2021.

Both of those options are what I would describe as high risk low reward strategies.

My suggestion would be to:

• Retire Walker this year
• Draft one of the potentially elite KPFs at the top of the draft as a direct replacement for Walker (one KPF out, one KPF in - replacement is list-wise, not team-wise)
• Re-sign Berg, but only for 12-months
• Delist Frampton, who offers nothing whatsoever in the forward line
• Reassess in 2023, when both Berg & Fog will be out of contract

The fact that we only have 4x KPFs under the age of 30, 3 of which have shown SFA (and the other is a 2nd year kid), places us in an awkward position. We don't want to be retaining dud players on our list any longer than necessary, but nor can we afford to have a team with nothing resembling an experienced KPF at all.

 

[Vader]

Ben Brown

To which I would counter Joe Daniher - how much did it cost Brisbane to extract him from Essendon?

 

[dogs105]

To which I would counter Joe Daniher - how much did it cost Brisbane to extract him from Essendon?

3 years at heaps. The 2 more years at bottom dollar.

 

[Scorpus]

Have you seen ROB kick for goal? When he's kicking from the top of the goal square, fans at the 50m boundary arcs get ready to catch the ball.

Oh he is an atrocious kick for goal.

Draft picks are great

 

[WeeBlake]

To which I would counter Joe Daniher - how much did it cost Brisbane to extract him from Essendon?

You’re right in most cases, but there are exceptions

 

[Mutineer]

The best potential KPF prospect in the 2022 draft is a local West Adelaide lad Harry Lemmey.

 

[Scorpus]

To which I would counter Joe Daniher - how much did it cost Brisbane to extract him from Essendon?

They actually paid less for him than if they had drafted him

Drafting Daniher would have cost a high draft pick (had he been available on the open market, probably a top 3 pick). On top of that they'd have to pay him a very similar salary to what they are already paying him just to retain him. Plus development cost and his salary for all the prior years from when he was drafted to when he was in his prime.

That's not even factoring in how often spending a top pick on a KPF turns into a fail, realistically it might cost 2-3 top end first rounders to get a good player

 

[dogs105]

The best potential KPF prospect in the 2022 draft is a local West Adelaide lad Harry Lemmey.

How would he rate against Fogarty at the beginning of Fog's draft year?

 

[WeeBlake]

The best potential KPF prospect in the 2022 draft is a local West Adelaide lad Harry Lemmey.

Is he a competitive beast?

 

[Scorpus]

The best potential KPF prospect in the 2022 draft is a local West Adelaide lad Harry Lemmey.

Damn now we really do need to put O'Brien up forward

 

[George CantStandYa]

Everyone on this board almost to a man would have had a complete meltdown if we didn't take Fogarty when he slipped through to us....the fact is when they say KPF's take time to develop it's almost always to do with physical development more than any other development issue, that is most certainly not the case with Fogarty, he's been a brick outhouse from day 1.

To bring some perspective to the Himmelberg selection he was taken at pick 51 and was a gangly tall prospect that was goung to need some time to develop physically but that time has long past...it's well and truly shape up or ship out for him IMO.

You don't think 2022 is just about last saloon time for these players, especially Himmelberg?

I have no issue with drafting either player, but you've listed the number of KPF's we have and were pointing out the low number. So whose job is it to draft players?

And yes, both players need to perform this year.