List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread
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- Feb 8, 2013
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I'm saying both are a joke
He’s a s**t forward and ruck which I’m guessing is where he played all his footy.
- Jul 22, 2012
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Thought I’d do a bit of a dive into our first round drafting over the past 10 years. Because we didn’t have any first rounders in 2012 or 13 due to the Tippett fiasco, I stretched it back to 2011.
2011: Pick 27 Sam Kerridge (yes, actually a first rounder due to the compromised draft). Could have taken Elliot Yeo (30), Brad Hill (33). A complete failure of a pick who only managed 26 games before being thrown in as steak knives to a Troy Menzel trade (lol).
2012: no first rounders due to Tippett fiasco
2013: no first rounders due to Tippett fiasco
2014: Pick 14 Jake Lever. This was the correct pick, but it’s a 3rd tall in defence, and we couldn’t even keep him at the club.
2015:
Pick 11 Wayne Milera. Could have taken Charlie Curnow (12). Any way you slice it, a bloke who has now been languishing in the SANFL for almost 3 months while fully fit is a failure of a pick. Yes, he’s had injuries prior to now which have likely lowered his ceiling as a player. No, he wasn’t good enough even before those.
2015
Pick 17: Tom Doedee. I’m not complaining about this pick, but he’s a very limited 3rd tall (note, he’s not actually tall) in defence, which nobody spends 1st round picks on. Josh Dunkley and Jade Gresham were available. Were they better options? It’s arguable.
2016: Pick 15 Jordan Gallucci. Just a complete disaster of a selection here. Tim English (19), Jarrod Berry (17), Jordan Ridley (22), Isaac Cumming (20), Will Hayward (21), and even the much-maligned Port pairing of Marshall (16) and Powell-Pepperspray (18) are all infinitely better at football, and always were. Gallucci’s only weapons were on show at the combine - he was never a first round-worthy footballer.
2017: Pick 12 Darcy Fogarty. Time’s up Fog. Fogarty gets progressively worse every time we see him return to the AFL side, and it’s already at a point where it’s difficult to ever see him playing another game for the club, once he inevitably gets dumped again this week. We could have had Zac Bailey (15 - looks a multiple All-Australian and genuine match-winner), Oscar Allen (21), Brandon Starcevich (18), Wil Powell (19), plus a host of other players far superior to Fogarty here.
**note the complete refusal to draft anything resembling an AFL midfielder among these 1st round selections so far
2018: Pick 9 Chayce Jones. In fairness to Hamish, he did bid on Tarryn Thomas here. What he didn’t do, was follow this up by picking the next best midfield prospect (or even a better one), which was Z Butters (12). He picked a sweet little Tasmanian boy with no football IQ and no ability to develop into an AFL mid. We’ve now turned Chayce into a back pocket, seemingly out of pure panic, and again, nobody drafts those types in the first Round, let alone in the top 10 of one of the best drafts in history. Absolute joke of a pick.
Pick 16: Ned McHenry. Time will tell if McHenry or Duursma (18) ends up the better player, but Ned was certainly a stretch here considering his limitations. He’s small, he’s not quick at all, he has absolutely no penetration in his kicking, he makes poor decisions with ball in hand, he can’t nail a set shot at goal to save his life, and again, as is Hamish’s calling card, he can’t and won’t be an AFL-standard full-time midfielder. Give me Adelaide lad Tom Sparrow (27) any day. Not a disastrous pick here, but it’s not great either.
2019: Pick 6 Fischer McAsey - it’s worth noting that we traded out Pick 4 instead of taking Lachie Ash because McAsey was “our man”. We gained Pedlar from this trade, who still has a chance to be good. McAsey though - wow. This is a guy who was clearly recruited as a Talia replacement, who now literally CANT EVEN GET A GAME AS A DEFENDER IN THE SANFL. Let that sink in, we have made the decision to switch him to the forward line at SANFL level, where he is equally hopeless, rather than continuing as a defender. This is at the same club where Billy Frampton was getting AFL games as a key defender as recently as a fortnight ago, and where we elected to go in with Nick Murray as our only key defender against a forward line consisting of King, Ryder/Marshall, Membrey. Just staggering. McAsey is clearly never playing another AFL game for us, and we’ll be lucky to get pick 55 in a trade. Caleb Serong (8), Hayden Young (7), Will Day (13), Kosi Pickett (12), M Georgiades (18), C Weightman (15) just s**t all over this guy in every way, not to mention Tom Green (10) who is a likely future Brownlow medallist (yes, I know he was an Academy player and we would have agreed to not bid on him as part of the Pick 4 trade, but it still outlines how bad the McAsey pick was when blokes like that are drafted after him).
2020: Pick 2 Riley Thilthorpe - certainly not complaining about this pick, but I wonder how many pundits will prefer Thilthorpe over Logan McDonald in 2 years time? Regardless, it took Hamish getting pick 1 to actually draft a player who looks a “star” and who will stay here for his entire career.
2020 Pick 11 Luke Pedlar - still pretty hard to judge this pick. Firstly because Pedlar has suffered with injuries (which he already was when we drafted him, making it a surprisingly early pick), and secondly because a lot of the guys drafted after Pedlar haven’t really done a lot yet either. Jury is out. As is Hamish’s calling card though - Pedlar’s kicking accuracy is not his strength.
2020 Pick 25 Brayden Cook - yes, yes, this actually was a first rounder (first round 26 picks long in this draft due to academy bid matching and FA compensation nonsense). And to be honest, very very happy with this pick. We did a sneaky last minute trade to get there. I’d say he fell into our laps (many expected Cook to go in the top 15) rather than this being some sort of amazing talent identification, but credit where credit is due. Nailed the pick.
2021 Pick 6 Josh Rachele - looking good. Well at least he was until the last month, where he has looked far from good. Regardless, I think it’s clear that Rachele has a bright future and like Thilthorpe, looks capable of becoming a star. Remains to be seen if that future will be as a pure forward or a hybrid forward / mid.
So the Round 1 tally between 2011 and 2021 stands at:
Sam Kerridge (trash)
Jake Lever (third tall who we couldn’t retain)
Wayne Milera (injury riddled soft outside player who now can’t stand out in a dominant SANFL side)
Tom Doedee (third tall in defence with solid leadership skills)
Jordan Gallucci (delisted trash)
Darcy Fogarty (trash who can’t get the ball at AFL level regardless of position)
Chayce Jones (drafted as a mid, failed miserably, now recast as a defender with mixed results)
Ned McHenry (tries hard, is extremely limited in terms of skill and athletic traits and therefore can’t be anything more than a role player at AFL level. Not terrible compared to who was drafted after him however)
Fischer McAsey (trash who is barely SANFL standard)
Riley Thilthorpe (looks good, but considering we had the first pick in the draft, he’d want to end up being one of the best 3 in it)
Luke Pedlar (jury is out)
Brayden Cook (looks really good, is an outside player but shows signs of brilliance)
Josh Rachele (positive signs early, but if his entire season had been at the standard of his last 4 games we’d be alarmed)
The lack of quality full time midfielders in that group is absolutely staggering. If you looked at the first round hauls of literally any other club during that same period, you’d see at least a few quality full time mids among their first round picks. If our bookends were looking fantastic, we could be excused for this lack of midfield talent being brought in at the pointy end of the draft, but when you only have one KPD (Butts) unavailable and you’re rolling out Nick Murray as your only KPD, and when blokes like Billy Frampton, Elliott Himmelberg and Darcy Fogarty are getting games as other key pillars at either end in 2022, you know you’ve botched the non-mid early picks too.
Time to go Hamish. That’s simply not good enough.
2011: Pick 27 Sam Kerridge (yes, actually a first rounder due to the compromised draft). Could have taken Elliot Yeo (30), Brad Hill (33). A complete failure of a pick who only managed 26 games before being thrown in as steak knives to a Troy Menzel trade (lol).
2012: no first rounders due to Tippett fiasco
2013: no first rounders due to Tippett fiasco
2014: Pick 14 Jake Lever. This was the correct pick, but it’s a 3rd tall in defence, and we couldn’t even keep him at the club.
2015:
Pick 11 Wayne Milera. Could have taken Charlie Curnow (12). Any way you slice it, a bloke who has now been languishing in the SANFL for almost 3 months while fully fit is a failure of a pick. Yes, he’s had injuries prior to now which have likely lowered his ceiling as a player. No, he wasn’t good enough even before those.
2015
Pick 17: Tom Doedee. I’m not complaining about this pick, but he’s a very limited 3rd tall (note, he’s not actually tall) in defence, which nobody spends 1st round picks on. Josh Dunkley and Jade Gresham were available. Were they better options? It’s arguable.
2016: Pick 15 Jordan Gallucci. Just a complete disaster of a selection here. Tim English (19), Jarrod Berry (17), Jordan Ridley (22), Isaac Cumming (20), Will Hayward (21), and even the much-maligned Port pairing of Marshall (16) and Powell-Pepperspray (18) are all infinitely better at football, and always were. Gallucci’s only weapons were on show at the combine - he was never a first round-worthy footballer.
2017: Pick 12 Darcy Fogarty. Time’s up Fog. Fogarty gets progressively worse every time we see him return to the AFL side, and it’s already at a point where it’s difficult to ever see him playing another game for the club, once he inevitably gets dumped again this week. We could have had Zac Bailey (15 - looks a multiple All-Australian and genuine match-winner), Oscar Allen (21), Brandon Starcevich (18), Wil Powell (19), plus a host of other players far superior to Fogarty here.
**note the complete refusal to draft anything resembling an AFL midfielder among these 1st round selections so far
2018: Pick 9 Chayce Jones. In fairness to Hamish, he did bid on Tarryn Thomas here. What he didn’t do, was follow this up by picking the next best midfield prospect (or even a better one), which was Z Butters (12). He picked a sweet little Tasmanian boy with no football IQ and no ability to develop into an AFL mid. We’ve now turned Chayce into a back pocket, seemingly out of pure panic, and again, nobody drafts those types in the first Round, let alone in the top 10 of one of the best drafts in history. Absolute joke of a pick.
Pick 16: Ned McHenry. Time will tell if McHenry or Duursma (18) ends up the better player, but Ned was certainly a stretch here considering his limitations. He’s small, he’s not quick at all, he has absolutely no penetration in his kicking, he makes poor decisions with ball in hand, he can’t nail a set shot at goal to save his life, and again, as is Hamish’s calling card, he can’t and won’t be an AFL-standard full-time midfielder. Give me Adelaide lad Tom Sparrow (27) any day. Not a disastrous pick here, but it’s not great either.
2019: Pick 6 Fischer McAsey - it’s worth noting that we traded out Pick 4 instead of taking Lachie Ash because McAsey was “our man”. We gained Pedlar from this trade, who still has a chance to be good. McAsey though - wow. This is a guy who was clearly recruited as a Talia replacement, who now literally CANT EVEN GET A GAME AS A DEFENDER IN THE SANFL. Let that sink in, we have made the decision to switch him to the forward line at SANFL level, where he is equally hopeless, rather than continuing as a defender. This is at the same club where Billy Frampton was getting AFL games as a key defender as recently as a fortnight ago, and where we elected to go in with Nick Murray as our only key defender against a forward line consisting of King, Ryder/Marshall, Membrey. Just staggering. McAsey is clearly never playing another AFL game for us, and we’ll be lucky to get pick 55 in a trade. Caleb Serong (8), Hayden Young (7), Will Day (13), Kosi Pickett (12), M Georgiades (18), C Weightman (15) just s**t all over this guy in every way, not to mention Tom Green (10) who is a likely future Brownlow medallist (yes, I know he was an Academy player and we would have agreed to not bid on him as part of the Pick 4 trade, but it still outlines how bad the McAsey pick was when blokes like that are drafted after him).
2020: Pick 2 Riley Thilthorpe - certainly not complaining about this pick, but I wonder how many pundits will prefer Thilthorpe over Logan McDonald in 2 years time? Regardless, it took Hamish getting pick 1 to actually draft a player who looks a “star” and who will stay here for his entire career.
2020 Pick 11 Luke Pedlar - still pretty hard to judge this pick. Firstly because Pedlar has suffered with injuries (which he already was when we drafted him, making it a surprisingly early pick), and secondly because a lot of the guys drafted after Pedlar haven’t really done a lot yet either. Jury is out. As is Hamish’s calling card though - Pedlar’s kicking accuracy is not his strength.
2020 Pick 25 Brayden Cook - yes, yes, this actually was a first rounder (first round 26 picks long in this draft due to academy bid matching and FA compensation nonsense). And to be honest, very very happy with this pick. We did a sneaky last minute trade to get there. I’d say he fell into our laps (many expected Cook to go in the top 15) rather than this being some sort of amazing talent identification, but credit where credit is due. Nailed the pick.
2021 Pick 6 Josh Rachele - looking good. Well at least he was until the last month, where he has looked far from good. Regardless, I think it’s clear that Rachele has a bright future and like Thilthorpe, looks capable of becoming a star. Remains to be seen if that future will be as a pure forward or a hybrid forward / mid.
So the Round 1 tally between 2011 and 2021 stands at:
Sam Kerridge (trash)
Jake Lever (third tall who we couldn’t retain)
Wayne Milera (injury riddled soft outside player who now can’t stand out in a dominant SANFL side)
Tom Doedee (third tall in defence with solid leadership skills)
Jordan Gallucci (delisted trash)
Darcy Fogarty (trash who can’t get the ball at AFL level regardless of position)
Chayce Jones (drafted as a mid, failed miserably, now recast as a defender with mixed results)
Ned McHenry (tries hard, is extremely limited in terms of skill and athletic traits and therefore can’t be anything more than a role player at AFL level. Not terrible compared to who was drafted after him however)
Fischer McAsey (trash who is barely SANFL standard)
Riley Thilthorpe (looks good, but considering we had the first pick in the draft, he’d want to end up being one of the best 3 in it)
Luke Pedlar (jury is out)
Brayden Cook (looks really good, is an outside player but shows signs of brilliance)
Josh Rachele (positive signs early, but if his entire season had been at the standard of his last 4 games we’d be alarmed)
The lack of quality full time midfielders in that group is absolutely staggering. If you looked at the first round hauls of literally any other club during that same period, you’d see at least a few quality full time mids among their first round picks. If our bookends were looking fantastic, we could be excused for this lack of midfield talent being brought in at the pointy end of the draft, but when you only have one KPD (Butts) unavailable and you’re rolling out Nick Murray as your only KPD, and when blokes like Billy Frampton, Elliott Himmelberg and Darcy Fogarty are getting games as other key pillars at either end in 2022, you know you’ve botched the non-mid early picks too.
Time to go Hamish. That’s simply not good enough.
- Aug 30, 2021
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Send this to the club.
What worries me is with no word of changing Hamish yet, he’s likely to again be leading our draft.
When you list these failures I just don’t get how anyone can defend his performance and if you do you shouldn’t whinge about our performances and the state of our list.
- Oct 13, 2017
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the problem is is that hamish nails a hell of a lot of the later picks and “smokies”..
we need to keep Hamish just for the picks after round 2 of the national draft, the mid season draft and the rookie draft.. and get a specialist in for our 1st and 2nd picks in the national draft…
The picks I wished we took:
*Brad Hill
*Lever? Didn't see any other options that year.
*Charlie Curnow. If only.
*Doedee or Dunkley? Lineball. Dunkley
*Tim English or Jordan Ridley. Tough one. Probably English.
*Zac Bailey. Lions doubly farked us by taking Cameron and Bailey. What a coup.
*Butters.
*Sparrow.
*Serong or Kosi Pickett. Would go Pickett.
*McDonald. Not saying Thilthorpe won't be good but I would have gone McDonald.
*Pedlar or Bruhn. Bruhn.
*Cook. Very happy with Cook. Ogilvie got one right.
*Rachele. Very gappy with Rachele.
Taylor. Very happy with him.
Our bad team is not a coincidence people. Ogilvie is a complete bust like most of his picks. He MUST GO!!
Thanks for all the work you did.
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You don't win flags from later picks.
Mr MysteryGuest
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It’s a sign that he can recognise the talent sometimes.
Mr MysteryGuest
Norm Smith Medallist
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You can strike Dunkley from the record. He was a potential father/son for Sydney but he was comfortable in melbourne. I remember Twomey saying there was a possible handshake agreement with Sydney that they would only match a bid if it came from a non vic club.
- Aug 5, 2013
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My hot take is that without his knee injury Gallucci probably would have settled into some Chayce Jones'esque niche role.
He was a major disappointment. But never looked as completely lost and useless as the majority of the 2020 squad did.
Probably would have required a different coach now that I think about it.
He was a major disappointment. But never looked as completely lost and useless as the majority of the 2020 squad did.
Probably would have required a different coach now that I think about it.
I'm sure it was meant as a 'why didn't we draft him', though there's no reason not to try it as we have many other times.
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GROTTO
TheBrownDog
- Jul 5, 2013
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IIRC Im almost definite that one of the reasons we didnt go Curnow was because he had a "bad reputation" outside of footy. ie off-field issues.
In hindsight that was a mistake obviously.
- Jul 6, 2017
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To be fair, Curnow has been injured for most of his time at Carlton. Showing what he can do now he is injury free and it is high end stuff, but if we had him and year after year he could barely play, the jungle drums would have been beating loudly that he was a fail
He certainly hasn't done anything in the VFL this year from what I've seen to make me think he'd of turned out to be a good player.
He'd still be a marginal half forward for us if we kept him.
- Aug 9, 2019
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Matthew Signorelli is actually going better than Gallucci in the VFL and going well off field with his career as well apparently.
- Oct 16, 2015
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Not to mention his drink driving charge and 2 year suspended licence in 2015, just prior to his draft IIRC. Imagine if we picked him up over a local lad, who had been very good at SANFL level and a crows fan!
Mr MysteryGuest
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Most draft bids are because you rate that player at that pick. Occasionally there is some alternative motive, but i doubt there was one with Thomas.
I'm not talking about trades. I'm talking about our opportunity to take him the draft.
So everyone is crap? You seem to throw back-handers at even our best picks?
Lever - third tall who we couldn’t retain
Doedee - very limited 3rd tall
Thilthorpe - how many pundits will prefer Logan McDonald in 2 years
Rachele - looking good until the last month, where he has looked far from good.
I do agree that our picks have not been up-to-scratch, but these 4 are surely a tick in anyone's book. My biggest issue with recent decisions is the way we appear to not take the best football player and instead fall back on the local/good family crapola. We then leave too much in the hands of trades, which we struggle at because our team is in Adelaide.
BTW, out of curiosity, I looked back at the previous 5 years' (before your list) 1st round picks:
2006 - Pick 14 - Sellar
2007 - Pick 10 - Dangerfield
2008 - Pick 10 - Phil Davis
2009 - Pick 13 - Talia
2010 - Pick 14 - Brodie Smith
Not too shabby, 4 out of 5 All-Australians?
- Oct 16, 2015
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2006 - Pick 14 - Sellar - didn't make it, poor pick - Should have picked Shane Edwards
2007 - Pick 10 - Dangerfield - poor skills, plus we couldn't even keep him, got nothing in return - Should have picked Cyril Rioli
2008 - Pick 10 - Phil Davis - left for money, KPD, it's a waste of a first round pick on a KPD when you can get them late in the draft - - Should have picked Sidebottom, Beams or Hannerbery
2009 - Pick 13 - Talia - Too defensive, not worth a first round for a KPD - Should have picked Nat Fyfe
2010 - Pick 14 - Brodie Smith - at best a HBF, not worthy of a first round pick. - Should have picked Cam Guthrie or Luke Parker
Is that how it's done?
No wonder we wanted to tell Rendell to move on!
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