List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Soggy2112]

You're missing/misunderstanding the point.

Clubs can only enter the draft with as many picks as they have list vacancies. It's no use Brisbane going into the draft with 6x later round selections, if they only have 3x list vacancies - they would only be allowed to take their first 3x selections into the draft, and the others would be forfeit.

This is part of the reason (along with salary cap) why many clubs opt for 38+6 team lists, instead of 40+4, as it allows them to take an additional 2x picks into the ND which could then be used for points.

So even if they want to draft four players, and know that they’re going to have to spend multiple picks to bring in Ashcroft, they can’t take more than four picks into the draft?

That seems a ridiculous rule tbh.

 

[Vader]

So even if they want to draft four players, and know that they’re going to have to spend multiple picks to bring in Ashcroft, they can’t take more than four picks into the draft?

Correct.

That seems a ridiculous rule tbh.

Absolutely not. It's designed to prevent clubs the kind of pick/vacancy abuses you're describing - as first executed by Sydney, in the first ND after the points system was introduced.

Don't forget that picks don't cease to exist once they have been used for points - they are just moved to the end of the draft. If a club wants to use 4x 3rd round picks, instead of a 1st round pick, then they will still get their early player (Ashcroft) - but their remaining picks will potentially be at pick #70 or later.

 

[chrisso crow]

Surely you try and sell for more than the value YOU think the player is going to provide over his next contract.

Sholl - he is leaving even though we would probably like to keep him. Get the best pick we can for a sweet kicking two-time Rising Star nominee. Carlton will pay a decent price, they are on the rise.
McAsey - should get more than his worth purely on potential. Maybe something like pick 30-40? Massive loss on Pick 6.
Himmelberg - Points for father-son worth more than he provides = take the late 3rd rounder.
Crouch - forget getting anything of worth = take whatever is offered, get his salary off our books.
Rowe - will cost to more to keep than he delivers = let him go and put his $ to better use elsewhere on the list.
Frampton - Eeek. Thanks for your time and effort Billy.
Newchurch - not worth much on the market - plenty of upside, cheap = definite keeper.

On the other side of the coin ...

Rankine - he wants to come, he is out of contract, get it done. Pay the first rounder.
JHF - if he wants to come, he is NOT out of contract, wait and see. Doubtful.
Cox - Elite kicking 100 kg 195cm S.A. backman ... unfortunately contracted through to end of 2024 = pipe dream.

Surely we can't afford to lose all of Himmelberg, Frampton and McAsey this year. I get that individually they're not s big loss but to lose all 3 in one hit would put a massive dent in our tall stocks, especially down back.

That would only leave Borlase as the back up tall defender, unless I'm forgetting someone?

We'd have to trade for someone to fill that void and go back to Murray/Butts being the back up.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Surely we can't afford to lose all of Himmelberg, Frampton and McAsey this year. I get that individually they're not s big loss but to lose all 3 in one hit would put a massive dent in our tall stocks, especially down back.

That would only leave Borlase as the back up tall defender, unless I'm forgetting someone?

We'd have to trade for someone to fill that void and go back to Murray/Butts being the back up.

Can only see one of McAsey or Himmelberg going. If McAsey is the one that goes, I suspect we'll give EH a 1-year deal. Probably on the senior list, as he might have interest from other clubs, it seems

 

[Jarman3]

Surely we can't afford to lose all of Himmelberg, Frampton and McAsey this year. I get that individually they're not s big loss but to lose all 3 in one hit would put a massive dent in our tall stocks, especially down back.

That would only leave Borlase as the back up tall defender, unless I'm forgetting someone?

We'd have to trade for someone to fill that void and go back to Murray/Butts being the back up.

Worrell?

 

[Soggy2112]

Correct.

Absolutely not. It's designed to prevent clubs the kind of pick/vacancy abuses you're describing - as first executed by Sydney, in the first ND after the points system was introduced.

Don't forget that picks don't cease to exist once they have been used for points - they are just moved to the end of the draft. If a club wants to use 4x 3rd round picks, instead of a 1st round pick, then they will still get their early player (Ashcroft) - but their remaining picks will potentially be at pick #70 or later.

I was completely unaware of this, that makes a lot more sense now.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Correct.

Absolutely not. It's designed to prevent clubs the kind of pick/vacancy abuses you're describing - as first executed by Sydney, in the first ND after the points system was introduced.

Don't forget that picks don't cease to exist once they have been used for points - they are just moved to the end of the draft. If a club wants to use 4x 3rd round picks, instead of a 1st round pick, then they will still get their early player (Ashcroft) - but their remaining picks will potentially be at pick #70 or later.

Wasn't there a team that was exempt from this rule in the last few years?

 

[Vader]

Wasn't there a team that was exempt from this rule in the last few years?

Probably one of the AFL's love children - Geelong or Gold Coast.

 

[jackster83]

Wasn't there a team that was exempt from this rule in the last few years?

They temporarily scrapped it so the Bulldogs could get JUH. Covid was the official excuse IIRC.

 

[Bearded Clam]

It's going to be interesting from a talls perspective this off season.

Frampton likely to be delisted, and McAsey and Himmelberg linked to other clubs. Borlase unsigned also.

That just leaves Strachan and Gollant (more of a third tall anyway) as depth.

If pick five goes to the Suns on Rankine, that leaves us with a number of spots to fill and bugger all draft currency (especially as we also need to find points for MM) other than our second round pick.

We might have to go down the DFA or bargain bin path for some depth.

Theres absolutely no way Frampton will be delisted

Even less chance if himm and mcasey go to other clubs.

The rumour is Frampton is going to the Pies and the deal is all but done already.

But the club would be foolish to let all three of frampton, himm and mcasey walk at the same time..

Unless they can trade back in some KPF/KPD depth.

 

[The Smith Revolution]

Theres absolutely no way Frampton will be delisted

Even less chance if himm and mcasey go to other clubs.

The rumour is Frampton is going to the Pies and the deal is all but done already.

But the club would be foolish to let all three of frampton, himm and mcasey walk at the same time..

Unless they can trade back in some KPF/KPD depth.

Will Gould - SA boy KPD out of contract?

 

[Thetrader15]

Probably one of the AFL's love children - Geelong or Gold Coast.

Western Bulldogs, they got JUH using 6 picks (29, 33, 41, 42, 52, 54), but then only added two players during the draft (Jamarra Ugle-Hagan (bid matched), Dominic Bedendo).

I suppose that rule was allowed in 2020 so they could still get Darcy at pick 2 the following year as a FS just using points.

The system is broken if the team that finishes 7th then 2nd can get pick 1 and 2, using points without compromising their draft hand the following year.

Where else can you trade picks 12, 30, 48 ->pick 1 and then the following year pick 17, 35, 53 -> pick 2?

 

[Thetrader15]

Will Gould - SA boy KPD out of contract?

191cm - Borlase is probably a better option.

 

[Golumless]

we won't delist Rowe unless we get desperate for list spots

We look to be very desperate for list spots at the current time.

 

[Vader]

We look to be very desperate for list spots at the current time.

Not so much if some of the contracted players are moved on, via trade (Crouch, Sholl, etc.) or retirement (Seed).

We're only "desperate for list spots" if the AFL breaks it's promise (again) and doesn't return list sizes to pre-COVID levels, AND the only players in the exit queue are the uncontracted players.

 

[MRB37]

Glenelg can request him back for the finals, so that seems an unlikely suggestion.

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I think that's only once we're knocked out. They can also request he not play if we face the Tigers in the finals.

 

[LoBu]

I think that's only once we're knocked out. They can also request he not play if we face the Tigers in the finals.

I thought it also included a caveat that if the AFL team wasn't playing finals they can request the player back.

 

[Vader]

Western Bulldogs, they got JUH using 6 picks (29, 33, 41, 42, 52, 54), but then only added two players during the draft (Jamarra Ugle-Hagan (bid matched), Dominic Bedendo).

I suppose that rule was allowed in 2020 so they could still get Darcy at pick 2 the following year as a FS just using points.

The system is broken if the team that finishes 7th then 2nd can get pick 1 and 2, using points without compromising their draft hand the following year.

Where else can you trade picks 12, 30, 48 ->pick 1 and then the following year pick 17, 35, 53 -> pick 2?

To be fair, in 2020 the AFL reduced senior list sizes by 2. Effectively, that was 2 picks worth of points that clubs were expecting to have available, but which the AFL effectively robbed them of. This significantly reduced their flexibility when it came to managing points for matching picks.

Whilst I agree with your point about the Dogs being able to grab 2x highly rated players so cheaply, in consecutive years, the reason for waiving the rule in 2020 does make a degree of sense.

 

[MRB37]

I thought it also included a caveat that if the AFL team wasn't playing finals they can request the player back.

Yep, they can, but I don't think they can request him back while we're still in the finals as well.

 

[LoBu]

Yep, they can, but I don't think they can request him back while we're still in the finals as well.

I guess we'll see, if I was Glenelg I'd get him back - stuff the crows.

 

[Mutineer]

Will Gould - SA boy KPD out of contract?

In what Universe let alone the AFL is Will Gould a Key Position Defender?

 

[Mutineer]

191cm - Borlase is probably a better option.

Pass on both as AFL Level Key Position Defenders.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

We look to be very desperate for list spots at the current time.

Not yet. See who else gets traded first. At least that's what id be telling the bulldogs.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Glenelg can request him back for the finals, so that seems an unlikely suggestion.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Where has it been stated that this is true?

All I've heard is Glenelg can simply not approve him playing against then in games (including finals).

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Theres absolutely no way Frampton will be delisted

Even less chance if himm and mcasey go to other clubs.

The rumour is Frampton is going to the Pies and the deal is all but done already.

But the club would be foolish to let all three of frampton, himm and mcasey walk at the same time..

Unless they can trade back in some KPF/KPD depth.

I’d sign Himmelberg as a priority presuming we get a decent deal for McAsey ( otherwise he stays too )