List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[1990crow]

We forget how old some of these players we bag are ......Gollant played the season as a 20 YO .....turns 21 today

Pretty good year, for a 20 YO .....obviously strength is his MIO .....particularly strength in his hands .....he needs a squishy ball !

Gollant was rubbish for a large portion of the second half of the year.
Good AFL players don't tend to do that when they are 21.

 

[Ramify]

Newchurch only turned 20, 2 months ago...give the kid a chance, no need to put a line through him yet. I think he's one of those players who needs to change a couple of things about his game and he can really make progress. Workrate is probably one, and more top speed bursts.

How does Newchurch compare to Stengle at the same age? Anyone?

 

[Ramify]

Gollant was rubbish for a large portion of the second half of the year.
Good AFL players don't tend to do that when they are 21.

From memory he played some very good AFL before a couple of quieter games and then banishment didn't he?

I remember thinking at the time it was a bit stiff. Especially considering some of the free passes we gave other young players this year.

I reckon he will be aright.

 

[morris086]

Borlaise only turned 20, 2 months ago .....I shared your opinion, however he did some good things on the weekend, in a Final, that warrants another year IMO .....at his age

It requires a bigger leap of faith on Newchurch ......how could so many posters believe he warranted an AFL game this year .....not even close to AFL standard .....doesn't work to get to the right positions, for a player of his type

How many SANFL games did you watch this year? Newchurch has had a poor finish to the year but to say he didn't warrant a game earlier in the year is just wrong.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Newchurch only turned 20, 2 months ago...give the kid a chance, no need to put a line through him yet. I think he's one of those players who needs to change a couple of things about his game and he can really make progress. Workrate is probably one, and more top speed bursts.

Newchurch needs to get front & centre more .......he's absent from too many contests

Charlie Cameron has marking as his weapon, that Newchurch doesn't possess .......so he has to be hitting way more contests than he is

 

[WaynesWorld19]

How many SANFL games did you watch this year? Newchurch has had a poor finish to the year but to say he didn't warrant a game earlier in the year is just wrong.

I watched the last 8 games + All the SANFL Finals ......enough to see how he plays ....and it's not AFL standard, due to workrate

The games I've seen of Newchurch, he is always goal side of contests when the ball is in dispute .....in other words, he's cheating & looking for the easy ball

 

[morris086]

I watched the last 8 games + All the SANFL Finals ......enough to see how he plays ....and it's not AFL standard, due to workrate

The games I've seen of Newchurch, he is always goal side of contests when the ball is in dispute .....in other words, he's cheating & looking for the easy ball

So you didn't see him when he was in form then but you're willing to write him off. A second year small forward being inconsistent, what a surprise. And cheating lol.

 

[maxlilly]

Borlase is a Cat B rookie - as such he is completely irrelevant to any discussions about draft picks, and our ability to fill list positions... unless you're suggesting he should be upgraded to the senior list?

There is one question which needs to be answered - and only one question: do the coaches think that he has what it takes (if he continues to develop) to make it as an AFL player? If the answer is yes, then he stays on the Cat B rookie list for another 12 months; if not, he should be delisted.

No I don't think he should be upgraded.
We just don't have a good enough draft pick to get someone better than him, as I don't think we will use our first two picks on KPD

 

[Ramify]

So you didn't see him when he was in form then but you're willing to write him off. A second year small forward being inconsistent, what a surprise. And cheating lol.

He needs a lot of Coaching and a fair bit more commitment from what I've seen. I like what I've seen when he has ball in hand, but Ive gotta agree with the points Wayne makes in regard to what he has to improve upon to make grade.

Don't think he's a discard just yet, but I do worry he won't recieve the Coaching he needs with us. That part is more on us than him.

 

[Vader]

No I don't think he should be upgraded.
We just don't have a good enough draft pick to get someone better than him, as I don't think we will use our first two picks on KPD

He's on the Cat B rookie list. We can't replace him by using a draft pick. Borlase & Newchurch are completely irrelevant when it comes to draft discussions.

** We also have Michelanney as a likely F/S selection this year, who is as much a KPD as Borlase.

 

[morris086]

He needs a lot of Coaching and a fair bit more commitment from what I've seen. I like what I've seen when he has ball in hand, but Ive gotta agree with the points Wayne makes in regard to what he has to improve upon to make grade.

Don't think he's a discard just yet, but I do worry he won't recieve the Coaching he needs with us. That part is more on us than him.

He for sure needs more coaching but you said it yourself, ball in hand is when he shines. My annoyance surrounding Newchurch is that we are screaming out at AFL for what he provides, speed, x-factor and goal sense yet we trot out McHenry, Murphy and to a lesser extent Rowe because they are more defensively inclined. To me if Rowe can get games then so too can Newchurch.

 

[Ramify]

He for sure needs more coaching but you said it yourself, ball in hand is when he shines. My annoyance surrounding Newchurch is that we are screaming out at AFL for what he provides, speed, x-factor and goal sense yet we trot out McHenry, Murphy and to a lesser extent Rowe because they are more defensively inclined. To me if Rowe can get games then so too can Newchurch.

No argument there.

 

[Mutineer]

How does Newchurch compare to Stengle at the same age? Anyone?

Stengle was way more advanced when he was drafted compared to Newchurch, Stengle had a very good Nationals in his draft year and surprisingly slipped through to the rookie draft....With what's transpired since perhaps the recruiters had their reasons?

 

[maxlilly]

He's on the Cat B rookie list. We can't replace him by using a draft pick. Borlase & Newchurch are completely irrelevant when it comes to draft discussions.

** We also have Michelanney as a likely F/S selection this year, who is as much a KPD as Borlase.

So if we delist Borlase and Frampton goes to Collingwood, what are we going to do about our KPD ?
Michalanney is 191cm and 74 kg, there is no way he can play KPD

 

[WheresGroomgone]

He's on the Cat B rookie list. We can't replace him by using a draft pick. Borlase & Newchurch are completely irrelevant when it comes to draft discussions.

** We also have Michelanney as a likely F/S selection this year, who is as much a KPD as Borlase.

As much as I am excited about young Max's potential currently he is very light and does not compare to Borlase in his ability to play as a KPD as witnessed yesterday where he played in the back pocket.

I am surprised by the hate on Borlase he played really well yesterday and one game early in the year against Sturt he dominated [I havent been able to watch many SANFL games]- he just turned 20 in July - in my opinion talk of him being delisted is rot and is not going to happen.

 

[Mutineer]

As much as I am excited about young Max's potential currently he is very light and does not compare to Borlase in his ability to play as a KPD as witnessed yesterday where he played in the back pocket.

I am surprised by the hate on Borlase he played really well yesterday and one game early in the year against Sturt he dominated [I havent been able to watch many SANFL games]- he just turned 20 in July - in my opinion talk of him being delisted is rot and is not going to happen.

probably another year on the rookie list but I doubt he's a long term prospect.

 

[crow2crow]

So if we delist Borlase and Frampton goes to Collingwood, what are we going to do about our KPD ?
Michalanney is 191cm and 74 kg, there is no way he can play KPD

IMO you can only play one of butts and murray anyway so if butts goes down murray comes in. not ideal.

 

[crow2crow]

As much as I am excited about young Max's potential currently he is very light and does not compare to Borlase in his ability to play as a KPD as witnessed yesterday where he played in the back pocket.

I am surprised by the hate on Borlase he played really well yesterday and one game early in the year against Sturt he dominated [I havent been able to watch many SANFL games]- he just turned 20 in July - in my opinion talk of him being delisted is rot and is not going to happen.

we will soon know once the professionals decide who to delist

 

[WaynesWorld19]

So you didn't see him when he was in form then but you're willing to write him off. A second year small forward being inconsistent, what a surprise. And cheating lol.

I think my 10 games of watching Newchurch ....trumps your 2 games of a few goals

If I look at the games Newchurch played well in .....I'm betting, they were easy Crows wins

 

[WaynesWorld19]

My big issue regarding players like Newchurch and how we develop them, is that we take them away from their most dangerous positions.
For some reason, we are convinced that all small forwards need to be on the wing for 90% of the game. We keep pushing them up the ground at all opportunities.
Look at Stengle. If he played for us he would have kicked a quarter of the goals he has. Simply because he wouldn't be near the goals. We would be jidging him on metres covered and pressure acts up the ground.

Watch our SANFL or AFL games - the amount of times the ball is banged in long, we have a pack jump for it and ZERO smalls on the ground is ridiculous. No small forwards to crumb the ball because they were all at the contest on the wing.
Look at our setup for a centre bounce. We have our 3 smallest forwards line up across the centre square and charge in, while our 3 talls all stand near each other as deep forwards. Wouldn't it make sense to have a small forward near them?

The point is that we don't see small forwards as goal kickers. Maybe if we do, and we keep Newchurch hovering around goals with an occasional burst up the field, then we will see more of his best attribute??

I can only speak of the last 10 x SANFL games .....but Newchurch was only on the wing for small periods .....Cook and Nankervis were the Wingmen

The fact there were no small fwds, with so many packs, in the SANFL .....falls back squarely on Newchurch's inability to get to the base of the contest ......call it poor workrate or laziness

 

[Scorpus]

I watched the last 8 games + All the SANFL Finals ......enough to see how he plays ....and it's not AFL standard, due to workrate

The games I've seen of Newchurch, he is always goal side of contests when the ball is in dispute .....in other words, he's cheating & looking for the easy ball

Bizarre take, getting goal side is an effective way to play a forward role if your team is in sync with that plan

 

[Vader]

As much as I am excited about young Max's potential currently he is very light and does not compare to Borlase in his ability to play as a KPD as witnessed yesterday where he played in the back pocket.

I am surprised by the hate on Borlase he played really well yesterday and one game early in the year against Sturt he dominated [I havent been able to watch many SANFL games]- he just turned 20 in July - in my opinion talk of him being delisted is rot and is not going to happen.

I'm not hating on him. I'm not even saying that he should be delisted.

What I am saying is that the decision whether or not to delist him should be determined by one thing, and one thing only - whether or not the coaches think he has a future at AFL level. If so, then he should be given another 12 months on the list. If not, then after 2 years we should cut bait.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Bizarre take, getting goal side is an effective way to play a forward role if your team is in sync with that plan

Not in a situation of a disputed contest .....that's the time to be on the defensive side of your opponent

You're talking the Josh Jenkins methodology of FWD play

 

[Scorpus]

Not in a situation of a disputed contest .....that's the time to be on the defensive side of your opponent

You're talking the Josh Jenkins methodology of FWD play

If you're forward of the ball playing defensive you're expecting either the contest to be lost and the winning team to go backwards, or for the contest to be won and the kick to your direct opponents advantage. Or you're playing behind the contest

Playing either in front or goal side are both valid provided your team mates at the contest know which way to go

 

[WheresGroomgone]

I'm not hating on him. I'm not even saying that he should be delisted.

What I am saying is that the decision whether or not to delist him should be determined by one thing, and one thing only - whether or not the coaches think he has a future at AFL level. If so, then he should be given another 12 months on the list. If not, then after 2 years we should cut bait.

No sorry I wasn't suggesting you were - I quoted you for the Max vs Borlase list mangement.

The calls for delisting Borlase has come fairly consistently from others on this thread - I highly doubt given his rookie B status that he will be delisted, he showed some excellent signs yesterday attacking the ball.