List Mgmt. 2022 Trade and Free Agency Thread

[Jivlain]

 

[Johnny Bananas]

He jumped off yesterday.

Wow, so he does have two brain cells to rub together after all.

 

[Scubaveg]

Wow, so he does have two brain cells to rub together after all.

Huh?


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[scoman]

Says the millionaire amongst us.


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Me? Not yet I'm afraid.

I just mean with tax and all it would be a choice between 305k after tax and 360k. Not sure it's worth the risk especially if he is established and happy here. Different matter if he had an after tax income of 50k in Brisbane and he could move to Melbourne for a similar job with after tax of 105k of course. You would do that in a heartbeat.

 

[martinson]

Me? Not yet I'm afraid.

I just mean with tax and all it would be a choice between 305k after tax and 360k. Not sure it's worth the risk especially if he is established and happy here. Different matter if he had an after tax income of 50k in Brisbane and he could move to Melbourne for a similar job with after tax of 105k of course. You would do that in a heartbeat.

Has it possibly occurred to anyone that he might think he's run his race here and could do better somewhere else.

And that he is really looking forward to a change.

It's possible. Who knows what he thinks.

 

[briztoon]

Has it possibly occurred to anyone that he might think he's run his race here and could do better somewhere else.

And that he is really looking forward to a change.

It's possible. Who knows what he thinks.

He’s reportedly been offered a 6 year contract. How many other forwards with a similar role and output are offered anything more than a two or three year contracts?

Me? Not yet I'm afraid.

I just mean with tax and all it would be a choice between 305k after tax and 360k. Not sure it's worth the risk especially if he is established and happy here. Different matter if he had an after tax income of 50k in Brisbane and he could move to Melbourne for a similar job with after tax of 105k of course. You would do that in a heartbeat.

Except he’s leaving $630k after tax, on the table, over the life of the two different contracts, if he stays here.

He’s not making that up in off field endorsements up here, even if we win a premiership.

That’s 6 years of working a regular job.

It literally sets him up for his post football career.

 

[scoman]

Has it possibly occurred to anyone that he might think he's run his race here and could do better somewhere else.

And that he is really looking forward to a change.

It's possible. Who knows what he thinks.

Well that's kind of the point I was making regarding the money. Its not enough of a difference for him to move if he is genuinely happy here.

 

[scoman]

He’s reportedly been offered a 6 year contract. How many other forwards with a similar role and output are offered anything more than a two or three year contracts?


Except he’s leaving $630k after tax, on the table, over the life of the two different contracts, if he stays here.

He’s not making that up in off field endorsements up here, even if we win a premiership.

That’s 6 years of working a regular job.

It literally sets him up for his post football career.

How do you get to $630k after tax?

I thought both Collingwood and us were offering 5 years. We are around 500k per year and Collingwood at 600k.

So for us its 305k after tax (using a basic tax calculator) x 5 years = $1 525 000

At Collingwood its 360 x 5 = $1 800 000

So that's a difference of $275k after tax isn't it?

 

[martinson]

Well that's kind of the point I was making regarding the money. Its not enough of a difference for him to move if he is genuinely happy here.

I don't think it'll be the money if he leaves either.

Footy players aren't as mercenary as many people think. If they're earning a crap load of money some more on top isn't going to make the difference.

 

[briztoon]

How do you get to $630k after tax?

I thought both Collingwood and us were offering 5 years. We are around 500k per year and Collingwood at 600k.

So for us its 305k after tax (using a basic tax calculator) x 5 years = $1 525 000

At Collingwood its 360 x 5 = $1 800 000

So that's a difference of $275k after tax isn't it?

Collingwood offering 6 years.

 

[briztoon]

I don't think it'll be the money if he leaves either.

Footy players aren't as mercenary as many people think. If they're earning a crap load of money some more on top isn't going to make the difference.

Most footy players aren’t earning crap loads of money (by footy standards). I’d be surprised if McStay has earned more than $350k gross per, up until this point.

Yes it’s a good wicket, but he’s got 5 or 6 years left to make hay, before it’s back to a regular income and a beat up body.

 

[scoman]

Collingwood offering 6 years.

Everything I had read said 5. I see your point if it is 6 but there would be a bit to play out if that's the case. It assumes he wouldn't get another contract with us or another club post 5 years or that he wouldn't be able to earn post football in that 6th year. Granted, it is unlikely Dan would have earning potential of 500k + post football. At least not initially.

So in summary if it is 6 years, then yes, that changes things quite a bit.

 

[martinson]

Most footy players aren’t earning crap loads of money (by footy standards). I’d be surprised if McStay has earned more than $350k gross per, up until this point.

Yes it’s a good wicket, but he’s got 5 or 6 years left to make hay, before it’s back to a regular income and a beat up body.

Na but what I meant was we've made an offer which is a crap load for a young man and their's is a bit more.

You'd like to know the conditions for the 6 years as well. It'd be surprising if there wasn't a clause or two written in

 

[McIvor]

I don't think it'll be the money if he leaves either.

Footy players aren't as mercenary as many people think. If they're earning a crap load of money some more on top isn't going to make the difference.

But what about success? I still maintain that all the players in those great teams of the Lions in 2000's , Cats - seems like for past 15 years - Hawks 3 peat and Tigers 3 flags had heaps of players that were all prepared to make sacrfices for the greater good. If players arent willing to do that and leave money on the table - which I heard Chris Scott say at Geelong that premiership players value the success forerver over an extra a few hundred grand or even more in some instances in the short term. If Dan leaves - that sounds like a mercenary to me as in its putting yourself ahead of all your mates . I honestly didnt think Dan would be like that - in fact one of the last -

my son looked up the clubs life members since being the Lions - only 6 have left - Power, Aka, Bradshaw and Jed Adcock - all at the end of there careers or in Akas case b/c he burnt his bridges. Therefore only 2 really left Rockliff and Patfull. From what Ive been told Joel is understandable as he wasnted to be in Sydney with his parter. Rockliff obviously left for a variety of reasons but sounds a bit like Aka, burnt bridges and was a dick.

Dan doesn't fit into any of that - unless this is the new trend that players only focus on themselves to the detriment of trying to create glory forever with there mates or be that blow in like Tom Lynch or BenBrown and pinch a flag with a new team when you havent been there for the hard years.

 

[briztoon]

But what about success? I still maintain that all the players in those great teams of the Lions in 2000's , Cats - seems like for past 15 years - Hawks 3 peat and Tigers 3 flags had heaps of players that were all prepared to make sacrfices for the greater good. If players arent willing to do that and leave money on the table - which I heard Chris Scott say at Geelong that premiership players value the success forerver over an extra a few hundred grand or even more in some instances in the short term. If Dan leaves - that sounds like a mercenary to me as in its putting yourself ahead of all your mates . I honestly didnt think Dan would be like that - in fact one of the last -

my son looked up the clubs life members since being the Lions - only 6 have left - Power, Aka, Bradshaw and Jed Adcock - all at the end of there careers or in Akas case b/c he burnt his bridges. Therefore only 2 really left Rockliff and Patfull. From what Ive been told Joel is understandable as he wasnted to be in Sydney with his parter. Rockliff obviously left for a variety of reasons but sounds a bit like Aka, burnt bridges and was a dick.

Dan doesn't fit into any of that - unless this is the new trend that players only focus on themselves to the detriment of trying to create glory forever with there mates or be that blow in like Tom Lynch or BenBrown and pinch a flag with a new team when you havent been there for the hard years.

If we’re not genuinely in a flag window and facing a two year mini rebuild, and a further two years growth after that, is it ok for Dan to go, if he nets us a first round compensation pick that can go towards a rebuild?

 

[dlanod]

Everything I had read said 5. I see your point if it is 6 but there would be a bit to play out if that's the case. It assumes he wouldn't get another contract with us or another club post 5 years or that he wouldn't be able to earn post football in that 6th year. Granted, it is unlikely Dan would have earning potential of 500k + post football. At least not initially.

So in summary if it is 6 years, then yes, that changes things quite a bit.

I remember there being press about six year deals from the Pies earlier, but yes it does seem like all recent accounts have shifted to a five year deal.

 

[McIvor]

If we’re not genuinely in a flag window and facing a two year mini rebuild, and a further two years growth after that, is it ok for Dan to go, if he nets us a first round compensation pick that can go towards a rebuild?

I dont think we are in the flag window to be honest but I doubt the club shares that view or thinks we need a mini rebuild.

Each there own here - but I value one club players and now that he is a life member think it is poor form to just go b/c he wants a payday when the club is trying to win a flag - unless the club agress with you and also doesnt think we are in the window. Just a worrying trend if players dont value being at one club in a flag window b/c they want some extra $$'s. Imagine where the club would be in 1999 - 04 if the players adopted a similar philosophy before we won our first?

 

[lionraven]

My feelings on the McStay situation are that I would prefer to keep him more than lose him. However, I do not think it is worth spending more than what we have offered at present. 500k at 5 years will take McStay to age 32. He has never achieved 30 goals a season to date. I like his marking and contested work. I like his field kicking. He has great CHF characteristics. However Hipwood has kicked more than 30 previously. He is only just approaching 12 months post ACL. He will be absolutely fantastic in 2023. Both Daniher and Hipwood can roam the ground. Both can play that linking CHF role if required. Daniher can also play in the ruck. McStay's point of difference is he has that frame that can be that bulldozing leading contested forward compared to Hipwood and Daniher being more leading and aerial forwards. However, the game has moved and at 195cm McStay is undersized to be a true hulking brute. If McStay doesnt wish to sign I think we are better off taking the end of 1st rounder/2nd rounder for points for Ashcroft and playing Fullarton or Lane for 20+ games. We know what we have got with McStay. It is unlikely to improve further. 500k per year is what Brodie is costing Fremantle (and previously Gold Coast). We currently have so much money tied to our forward line with Daniher, Hipwood and Cameron. We need to spread that money around and either target an early-to-mid career midfielder to help Neale. Seeing Fullarton progress in the VFL, I think if he plays 22 games straight in a forward line working with Hipwood and Daniher; he will develop well as that third tall forward on half of McStay's money.

 

[martinson]

My feelings on the McStay situation are that I would prefer to keep him more than lose him. However, I do not think it is worth spending more than what we have offered at present. 500k at 5 years will take McStay to age 32. He has never achieved 30 goals a season to date. I like his marking and contested work. I like his field kicking. He has great CHF characteristics. However Hipwood has kicked more than 30 previously. He is only just approaching 12 months post ACL. He will be absolutely fantastic in 2023. Both Daniher and Hipwood can roam the ground. Both can play that linking CHF role if required. Daniher can also play in the ruck. McStay's point of difference is he has that frame that can be that bulldozing leading contested forward compared to Hipwood and Daniher being more leading and aerial forwards. However, the game has moved and at 195cm McStay is undersized to be a true hulking brute. If McStay doesnt wish to sign I think we are better off taking the end of 1st rounder/2nd rounder for points for Ashcroft and playing Fullarton or Lane for 20+ games. We know what we have got with McStay. It is unlikely to improve further. 500k per year is what Brodie is costing Fremantle (and previously Gold Coast). We currently have so much money tied to our forward line with Daniher, Hipwood and Cameron. We need to spread that money around and either target an early-to-mid career midfielder to help Neale. Seeing Fullarton progress in the VFL, I think if he plays 22 games straight in a forward line working with Hipwood and Daniher; he will develop well as that third tall forward on half of McStay's money.

McStay's one of those players who always looks like he's going to be better than what he is.

What he is is a more than useful player who plays a couple of really good games a year and some games where he doesn't feature. Having some excellent moments in the rest of them.

Fullarton isn't up to him at the moment or probably ever but he's better than what most people think if we give him a role against a 2nd or 3rd string opponent which doesn't include rucking.

 

[Elixuh]

I'd be ok with losing McStay if that'd mean we could target another decent mid to assist Lachie and then do everything we can to keep Lachie.

Against lesser teams we have a scoring advantage because our midfield can generally hold its own and then feed it to our forwards who, as a group, are probably the strongest in the comp.

Against better teams this advantage is nullified because our midfield gets rolled so we have less entries and the entries we do have are generally poor quality and pressured.

Some people here seem to be ok with losing Lachie but I can't follow that logic.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

We cannot lose Neale. We would struggle to make finals if we didn't replace him with a ready to go mid.

 

[briztoon]

I dont think we are in the flag window to be honest but I doubt the club shares that view or thinks we need a mini rebuild.

Each there own here - but I value one club players and now that he is a life member think it is poor form to just go b/c he wants a payday when the club is trying to win a flag - unless the club agress with you and also doesnt think we are in the window. Just a worrying trend if players dont value being at one club in a flag window b/c they want some extra $$'s. Imagine where the club would be in 1999 - 04 if the players adopted a similar philosophy before we won our first?

But you’re ok with players leaving other clubs to come to us? To try and win a flag.

Or do you believe we should scrap free agency all together, and teams only build from the draft? Once a player is drafted to a club, that’s his club for life.

 

[Jeremiah001]

The genie is out of the bottle when it comes to trade. Only need to look overseas to see where it is headed.

 

[McIvor]

But you’re ok with players leaving other clubs to come to us? To try and win a flag.

Or do you believe we should scrap free agency all together, and teams only build from the draft? Once a player is drafted to a club, that’s his club for life.

I didnt say that . I fellt for Fremantle when Lachie bailed them and Charlie bailed Adelaide and I have no issue with movement of players that leave for opportunity such as Ben Keays and Mitch Hinge going to Adelaide for opportunity or even someone like Nakia who needed a fresh start. I just have an issue with the mercenray types and guys like Dan McStay that are life members of the club and then the club is no longer good enough and he cant sacrifice some money like every single one of those players at teams that won multiple flags in order to be selfless and try to win one with your mates.

I feel as though if Dan leaves - it will then be only a matter of time that Hugh, Cam, Kai, Dev, Jaxon etc will leave when clubs in there home states come knocking irrespective if theyve been 100 + players. Looks like gone are the days of men like Voss, Black, Brown, Rich, Zorko etc happy to make sacrifices to be a one club player in the pursuit of greatness - which some of the modern guys may miss out on.

 

[McIvor]

The genie is out of the bottle when it comes to trade. Only need to look overseas to see where it is headed.

What I dont understand is the 'excitement' of trades for trades sake - I mean JOhn Ralph could barely contain his excitement when discussing Dan joining Collingwood - what is the excitement? Is Ralph a Magpie person? Or during trade periods the excitement when some level player joins another club - give me a good game of footy for excitement like Cats v Tigers tonight compared to a story for weeks about Jeremy Cameron joining Geelong as an example. I mean do people get excited about stories about trades not even involving your team?

 

[Jeremiah001]

What I dont understand is the 'excitement' of trades for trades sake - I mean JOhn Ralph could barely contain his excitement when discussing Dan joining Collingwood - what is the excitement? Is Ralph a Magpie person? Or during trade periods the excitement when some level player joins another club - give me a good game of footy for excitement like Cats v Tigers tonight compared to a story for weeks about Jeremy Cameron joining Geelong as an example. I mean do people get excited about stories about trades not even involving your team?

Too many journos and the insatiable need for content arising from one-upmanship from media organisations and their lackeys? Or I've had one too many? Or both?