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List Mgmt. 2022 Trade & List Management Thread II

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AFL Trade Period Key Dates - AFL.com.au

When does Free Agency begin? How long does the Trade Period go for? Find out on AFL.com.au.
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
Key Dates:

Friday 07 October at 5.00pm
Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Monday 10 October
NAB AFL Draft Nominations open (9am)
AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer 3 Day Period Ends (5pm)

Wednesday 12 October at 7.30pm
AFL Trade Period closes – players and selections


Thursday 03 November at 9.00am
AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) commences

Wednesday 09 November at 5.00pm

AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) closes

Friday 11 November at 9.00am

AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) commences

Tuesday 15 November by 5.00pm

AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) closes
AFL Trade Period closes – selections only

Monday 21 November by 3.00pm

NAB AFL Draft Nominations close

Monday 28 November at 7.10pm

2022 NAB AFL Draft Round One (Venue TBC)

Father/Son, Academy & NGA and Players Bidding opens.

Tuesday 29 November

AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)

2022 NAB AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)

Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)

AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)

Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)

AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

Wednesday 30 November

NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft (3pm, online)
NAB AFL Rookie Draft (3.20pm, online)

Thursday 01 December by 4.00pm

Final AFL Club List Lodgement
 
Last edited:
Ashley B said:
I think Daniel Gorringe said it best, that if you are really tall and play ruck you can have a 10 year career in the AFL system and you don't have to be all that good either .
Click to expand...
Well, it really is his specialist subject
 
Off topic, I took my 7 year old Niece down to Arden st, on Sunday. She had an absolute ball and even cried, when we ventured over, to the cups. No sh*t, she said number 5 isn't far away. I had the strut going, after that. The Roo shop was closed, but we watched the fencing and checked out all the famous names, plus the theatre that the current players gather in, for team meetings. Twas a fantastic day, just to calm the mind.
 

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Inside the tense negotiations of the AFL trade period​

Parking your ego, managing your people skills and most importantly - not telling porkies. DANIEL CHERNY investigates the high-stakes machinations during the AFL‘s critical trade period.

Daniel Cherny
@danielcherny

5 min read
September 26, 2022 - 6:00AM


There will plenty of eyes on Collingwood footy boss Graham Wright ahead of a key trade period for the Pies. Picture: Michael Klein/NCA


Trade period could go for one day, one week or one month and some deals would still be up in the air within 30 minutes of the deadline.

Such is the posturing and leveraging of negotiations between clubs that inevitably talks will get tense and go down to the wire.

Over the coming weeks you will hear endless chatter about what is a reasonable price for a player, whether clubs are conversing in good faith, and if so and so paid overs for their new recruit.

So as the likes of Brodie Grundy, Jacob Hopper, Tim Tarano, Junior Rioli and Izak Rankine wait for their looming changes in colours, how will trade talks between clubs really work?


Brodie Grundy’s contract with Collingwood has been a talking point through the back-end of the season. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images

What is the etiquette when a club wants a player, do clubs engage in stonewalling tactics, and who are the better and worse operators to deal with across the negotiating table?

Former Port Adelaide, Hawthorn and St Kilda list manager Chris Pelchen stresses that the most important element of trade negotiations is understanding the methods of other clubs. And ultimately it is less about clubs than it is about people.

“More so than from club to club, it really comes down to the individual personality of the person you’re dealing with,” Pelchen says.




“While some clubs may have reputations, it’s really because of the person involved who sets the tone. It changes from coach to coach, and obviously coaches change over time.

“Inevitably you are going to have some who drive harder bargains than others, some who will start with ambitious claims, others who are very direct with how they talk with you and their best offer is their best offer.

“That’s why it’s important to get to know the person you’re dealing with and primarily it’s the coach, the list manager and the recruiting manager who will drive those conversations.”

Pelchen believes that personality factor can often be overlooked during the frenzy of trade period. Picture: Michael Klein/NCA

Long-time Essendon list manager Adrian Dodoro has a reputation of being a challenging and wily operator to deal with from the other side of the table.
However as one former rival list manager noted, Dodoro wasn’t too bad when he was trying to bring in players, like during the 2017 period when moved with relative haste to acquire Devon Smith, Adam Saad and Jake Stringer.

It was more difficult when another club was looking to prise a player from the Dons, like in 2019 and 2020 respectively when Joe Daniher and Adam Saad were being pursued by rival clubs.

So, say a player wants to get to a particular club. Who opens the batting in negotiations?

“Normally the club that is bringing the player in will ask the departing [player’s] club what they require, so in other terms what’s the sale price, the trade price?” Pelchen says.

“It’s rare that the club that has the player departing will just put a price on the player’s head before the club that’s interested in the player [has made an offer].”

Dodoro was a fierce list manager when it came to retaining his players. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Thankfully, according to Pelchen, the days of clubs trying to pull one over the opposition are just about gone.

There is a more holistic approach taken. And as one ex-list manager notes, the industry is a small one. If a club tries to dud another, those who feel they’ve been on the wrong end of the bargain will remember. With live trading on draft night, you never know when you might need to call in a favour.

“What’s really been a positive step forward for the competition is that that’s becoming less commonplace,” Pelchen says.

“The occurrence and the regularity of a win-loss scenario is very rare now.

“There are certainly individuals that might want to take that approach in their first conversation, hoping that they might be able to snap a bargain, especially if it’s an inexperienced person that they’re dealing with … thankfully in the vast majority of cases the conversations are a lot more mature than they might have been five, 10 or 15 years ago.”

Sydney and Adelaide went twelve rounds over the Jordan Dawson trade in late 2021. Picture: Sarah Reed/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Perhaps the most important lesson, says one former list manager, is not to lie. It can be a long way back in mending relationships if you are found to have told a porky. Although that is not to say that there aren’t other ways to be economical with the truth without descending into outright lying.

Sometimes however the goalposts can be shifted, even despite the best intentions of list managers.

“You can be upfront and say this is what we’re looking for and people will assume your first offer … people will assume that’s not your best offer,” Pelchen says.
“How long those negotiations last varies greatly between the individuals we’re talking about.

“The joker in the pack is that coaches fall in and out of love with a player very quickly.

“We can all change our mind … but that is the joker in the pack.

“That does make for very difficult conversations over the journey, I know where I had conversations with clubs that I was dealing with in good faith. The coach changed their mind and then the club gets angry, they feel it’s been wasted conversation, and sometimes that deal is holding up another deal. And it comes back to the coach changing their mind, it’s as simple as that.”

Stephen Wells (L) will have a big task ahead should the Cats lose any of their grand final heroes. Picture: AAP Image/Michael Dodge

And treating people decently ends up paying off. Asked to identify his favourite opposition list managers to deal with, Pelchen named the architects of Saturday’s grand final sides: Stephen Wells at Geelong and Kinnear Beatson from Sydney, both veterans of the caper.

“Kin Beatson at Sydney. We had some very bullish conversations. Sydney was a club we had to back out of a deal with many years ago when I was at Hawthorn because the coach changed his mind. Alastair [Clarkson] changed his mind on a player and we backed out of a deal (Pelchen would not divulge the player’s identity),” Pelchen says.

“They were quite forthright conversations with Kin, but one thing I liked about dealing with Kin is he was upfront. You knew what he wanted and were able to talk honestly.

“Stephen Wells is a very honest person. They’re probably the two I enjoyed dealing with the most. Different personalities between them, I find Kin much more forthright, Stephen is very honest and has high integrity.”

The Swans’ Kin Beatson has curated a reputation as one of the games best recruiters. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images

As one former list manager notes, parking the ego is also critical. Although that can be tough when fans demand a trophy from each trade period, even if sometimes doing less ends up doing more.

Players, says the ex-list manager, also appreciate clubs trying to get deals done early. And sometimes bluffs can be called, like in 2019 when St Kilda issued a deadline on a deal for Fremantle over Bradley Hill.

When the Dockers dithered, the Saints, under list manager James Gallagher, used the pick initially offered to Freo to orchestrate deals for Dougal Howard and Paddy Ryder, among the five trade targets for St Kilda that October.

Gallagher was relatively new in the role at that time, but after proving he was a man of his word, other clubs knew they could trust him.
 
giantroo said:




Inside the tense negotiations of the AFL trade period​

Parking your ego, managing your people skills and most importantly - not telling porkies. DANIEL CHERNY investigates the high-stakes machinations during the AFL‘s critical trade period.

Daniel Cherny
@danielcherny

5 min read
September 26, 2022 - 6:00AM


There will plenty of eyes on Collingwood footy boss Graham Wright ahead of a key trade period for the Pies. Picture: Michael Klein/NCA


Trade period could go for one day, one week or one month and some deals would still be up in the air within 30 minutes of the deadline.

Such is the posturing and leveraging of negotiations between clubs that inevitably talks will get tense and go down to the wire.

Over the coming weeks you will hear endless chatter about what is a reasonable price for a player, whether clubs are conversing in good faith, and if so and so paid overs for their new recruit.

So as the likes of Brodie Grundy, Jacob Hopper, Tim Tarano, Junior Rioli and Izak Rankine wait for their looming changes in colours, how will trade talks between clubs really work?


Brodie Grundy’s contract with Collingwood has been a talking point through the back-end of the season. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images

What is the etiquette when a club wants a player, do clubs engage in stonewalling tactics, and who are the better and worse operators to deal with across the negotiating table?

Former Port Adelaide, Hawthorn and St Kilda list manager Chris Pelchen stresses that the most important element of trade negotiations is understanding the methods of other clubs. And ultimately it is less about clubs than it is about people.

“More so than from club to club, it really comes down to the individual personality of the person you’re dealing with,” Pelchen says.




“While some clubs may have reputations, it’s really because of the person involved who sets the tone. It changes from coach to coach, and obviously coaches change over time.

“Inevitably you are going to have some who drive harder bargains than others, some who will start with ambitious claims, others who are very direct with how they talk with you and their best offer is their best offer.

“That’s why it’s important to get to know the person you’re dealing with and primarily it’s the coach, the list manager and the recruiting manager who will drive those conversations.”

Pelchen believes that personality factor can often be overlooked during the frenzy of trade period. Picture: Michael Klein/NCA

Long-time Essendon list manager Adrian Dodoro has a reputation of being a challenging and wily operator to deal with from the other side of the table.
However as one former rival list manager noted, Dodoro wasn’t too bad when he was trying to bring in players, like during the 2017 period when moved with relative haste to acquire Devon Smith, Adam Saad and Jake Stringer.

It was more difficult when another club was looking to prise a player from the Dons, like in 2019 and 2020 respectively when Joe Daniher and Adam Saad were being pursued by rival clubs.

So, say a player wants to get to a particular club. Who opens the batting in negotiations?

“Normally the club that is bringing the player in will ask the departing [player’s] club what they require, so in other terms what’s the sale price, the trade price?” Pelchen says.

“It’s rare that the club that has the player departing will just put a price on the player’s head before the club that’s interested in the player [has made an offer].”

Dodoro was a fierce list manager when it came to retaining his players. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Thankfully, according to Pelchen, the days of clubs trying to pull one over the opposition are just about gone.

There is a more holistic approach taken. And as one ex-list manager notes, the industry is a small one. If a club tries to dud another, those who feel they’ve been on the wrong end of the bargain will remember. With live trading on draft night, you never know when you might need to call in a favour.

“What’s really been a positive step forward for the competition is that that’s becoming less commonplace,” Pelchen says.

“The occurrence and the regularity of a win-loss scenario is very rare now.

“There are certainly individuals that might want to take that approach in their first conversation, hoping that they might be able to snap a bargain, especially if it’s an inexperienced person that they’re dealing with … thankfully in the vast majority of cases the conversations are a lot more mature than they might have been five, 10 or 15 years ago.”

Sydney and Adelaide went twelve rounds over the Jordan Dawson trade in late 2021. Picture: Sarah Reed/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Perhaps the most important lesson, says one former list manager, is not to lie. It can be a long way back in mending relationships if you are found to have told a porky. Although that is not to say that there aren’t other ways to be economical with the truth without descending into outright lying.

Sometimes however the goalposts can be shifted, even despite the best intentions of list managers.

“You can be upfront and say this is what we’re looking for and people will assume your first offer … people will assume that’s not your best offer,” Pelchen says.
“How long those negotiations last varies greatly between the individuals we’re talking about.

“The joker in the pack is that coaches fall in and out of love with a player very quickly.

“We can all change our mind … but that is the joker in the pack.

“That does make for very difficult conversations over the journey, I know where I had conversations with clubs that I was dealing with in good faith. The coach changed their mind and then the club gets angry, they feel it’s been wasted conversation, and sometimes that deal is holding up another deal. And it comes back to the coach changing their mind, it’s as simple as that.”

Stephen Wells (L) will have a big task ahead should the Cats lose any of their grand final heroes. Picture: AAP Image/Michael Dodge

And treating people decently ends up paying off. Asked to identify his favourite opposition list managers to deal with, Pelchen named the architects of Saturday’s grand final sides: Stephen Wells at Geelong and Kinnear Beatson from Sydney, both veterans of the caper.

“Kin Beatson at Sydney. We had some very bullish conversations. Sydney was a club we had to back out of a deal with many years ago when I was at Hawthorn because the coach changed his mind. Alastair [Clarkson] changed his mind on a player and we backed out of a deal (Pelchen would not divulge the player’s identity),” Pelchen says.

“They were quite forthright conversations with Kin, but one thing I liked about dealing with Kin is he was upfront. You knew what he wanted and were able to talk honestly.

“Stephen Wells is a very honest person. They’re probably the two I enjoyed dealing with the most. Different personalities between them, I find Kin much more forthright, Stephen is very honest and has high integrity.”

The Swans’ Kin Beatson has curated a reputation as one of the games best recruiters. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images

As one former list manager notes, parking the ego is also critical. Although that can be tough when fans demand a trophy from each trade period, even if sometimes doing less ends up doing more.

Players, says the ex-list manager, also appreciate clubs trying to get deals done early. And sometimes bluffs can be called, like in 2019 when St Kilda issued a deadline on a deal for Fremantle over Bradley Hill.

When the Dockers dithered, the Saints, under list manager James Gallagher, used the pick initially offered to Freo to orchestrate deals for Dougal Howard and Paddy Ryder, among the five trade targets for St Kilda that October.

Gallagher was relatively new in the role at that time, but after proving he was a man of his word, other clubs knew they could trust him.
Click to expand...

Right, can we start stapling this to some peoples heads:

If a club tries to dud another, those who feel they’ve been on the wrong end of the bargain will remember. With live trading on draft night, you never know when you might need to call in a favour.

“The occurrence and the regularity of a win-loss scenario is very rare now.
 
 


 
Ive never been more convinced we need to trade pick 1.

  • The best player in the draft is Ashcroft who will rightfully go at pick 1.
  • The next two standouts are Wardlaw and Tsatas who we have zero need for.
  • The more mids we bring in the more disgruntled our current crop gets when they cant get minutes.
  • If we trade down for multiple picks we can address specific needs.
  • W.Phillips is basically a new midfield recruit for us now anyway.

If we can trade with the Giants and get two first round picks for pick 1, ensuring that they can have their pick of either Wardlaw or Tsatas, then surely we do that. Their midfield rebuild would be off to a great start with Callaghan and whoever they pick here.

Cadman should be our target.
 

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krakouers said:
Right, can we start stapling this to some peoples heads:

If a club tries to dud another, those who feel they’ve been on the wrong end of the bargain will remember. With live trading on draft night, you never know when you might need to call in a favour.

“The occurrence and the regularity of a win-loss scenario is very rare now.
Click to expand...
worth remembering when posters are wringing hands over why we don’t just walk people to the PSD
 
 
HBFlanker said:
Ive never been more convinced we need to trade pick 1.

  • The best player in the draft is Ashcroft who will rightfully go at pick 1.
  • The next two standouts are Wardlaw and Tsatas who we have zero need for.
  • The more mids we bring in the more disgruntled our current crop gets when they cant get minutes.
  • If we trade down for multiple picks we can address specific needs.
  • W.Phillips is basically a new midfield recruit for us now anyway.

If we can trade with the Giants and get two first round picks for pick 1, ensuring that they can have their pick of either Wardlaw or Tsatas, then surely we do that. Their midfield rebuild would be off to a great start with Callaghan and whoever they pick here.

Cadman should be our target.
Click to expand...
Like the sound of it, until GWS takes Cadman 🫠
 
HBFlanker said:
Ive never been more convinced we need to trade pick 1.

  • The best player in the draft is Ashcroft who will rightfully go at pick 1.
  • The next two standouts are Wardlaw and Tsatas who we have zero need for.
  • The more mids we bring in the more disgruntled our current crop gets when they cant get minutes.
  • If we trade down for multiple picks we can address specific needs.
  • W.Phillips is basically a new midfield recruit for us now anyway.

If we can trade with the Giants and get two first round picks for pick 1, ensuring that they can have their pick of either Wardlaw or Tsatas, then surely we do that. Their midfield rebuild would be off to a great start with Callaghan and whoever they pick here.

Cadman should be our target.
Click to expand...
This sounds great.

It just neglects the fact that it makes little sense for GWS to trade two first round picks to move up two places. Like us, they are stacked with mids.

If GWS offers 3 and another first for 1, then we probably do it. What people demanding we trade Pick 1 ignore, is the fact that this offer won't come.

Also hypothetically, what happens if we trade Pick 1 & GWS/West Coast take Sheezel & Cadman?
 

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Psicosis said:
This sounds great.

It just neglects the fact that it makes little sense for GWS to trade two first round picks to move up two places. Like us, they are stacked with mids.

If GWS offers 3 and another first for 1, then we probably do it. What people demanding we trade Pick 1 ignore, is the fact that this offer won't come.

Also hypothetically, what happens if we trade Pick 1 & GWS/West Coast take Sheezel & Cadman?
Click to expand...

How are they stacked?

Losing Taranto, Hopper, Bruhn. Callan Ward will finish end of next season.

They need midfielders.
 
Psicosis said:
This sounds great.

It just neglects the fact that it makes little sense for GWS to trade two first round picks to move up two places. Like us, they are stacked with mids.

If GWS offers 3 and another first for 1, then we probably do it. What people demanding we trade Pick 1 ignore, is the fact that this offer won't come.

Also hypothetically, what happens if we trade Pick 1 & GWS/West Coast take Sheezel & Cadman?
Click to expand...

I could see GWS drafting mids to replace the two they are losing but you're right, the gamble is they take Cadman as more of a need. I imagine they'd probably be fine sitting where they are and taking Tsatas.

There could be a situation where they are desperate for Cadman, we get 3 and an early teen pick (Richmond first perhaps) and still have Wardlaw/Sheezel slip to us and then go for Jefferson as a KPF option.
 
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