List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[SaintsSeptember]

If Hill gets traded I think that's the kind of deal we should prepare ourselves for. See Treloar.

Collingwood NEEDED Treloar off their books.
We don't.

 

[BrutThough]

But why take a s**t pick AND pay some of the salary. We have the cash back in two years.
It's nothing like Treloar

Is a pick in the 30's considered crap these days? Basing off his football - great some games and poor in others - it seems close to what his output is.

 

[St Kilda Death]

purple thinks Ryder will play at a 4th club next year?
Interesting since I thought Ryder made the call to retire.

 

[gringo2011]

Maybe just maybe they looked better in better teams. There has been any number of good ordinary players who looked pretty good only to be found out without great players around them at other clubs. Higgins had lynch, Riewoldt and a cast of many VG players around him, butler the same thing. Hill years at hawthorn and so on, great teams don’t often loose players they want to keep.

I think both have played well at the Saints and have gone rapidly backwards since. The forward structure gives them nothing to work with. We pretty much have a set up that relies on King kicking 6 gals to make us competitive. If he has a bad day we lose.

 

[Klaatu]

Nick Bryant from Essendon on the radar

 

[gringo2011]

True, but Owens is much more then just a Steele clone. Will take many more marks (including hangers), and will kick many more goals (out of nothing). I think his only weakness may be his field kicking, which will be serviceable but perhaps not pin-point accurate.

IMO, he is going to win a lot of games of his own boot just through his x-factor.

Especially if we build a midfield around him (Windhager is a start to this but we need more young mids to go with them. Clark/Bytel/Byrnes maybe but yet to be seen). 2022 FRDP must be the best midfielder available so we can build that trio of Windhager, Owens, 2022 FRDP. That at least gives us a line to add too.

Ross, Crouch, Steele, are good enough and can carry us for now but we have to be developing in whilst they’re getting through their prime years.

Gresham is the other one whose kind of in the middle of the old and the young, still young but yet to be seen whether he’ll be more of a mid of a forward. We should not trade him unless it’s for 2 FRDP, or a really high FRDP, he’s a star.

Gresham would be one of the dumbest trades we've done since last time we did a dumb trade. Why would you chase DeGoey and then sell off Gresham? It would be another questionable decision by a group that are not getting many wins on the board.

 

[DougalHoward]

purple thinks Ryder will play at a 4th club next year?
Interesting since I thought Ryder made the call to retire.

he seemed cooked in the last few games he played

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Precedence in these types of trades don't care that you are overrating Hill's worth or like to find excuses to sack everyone. He will got the the low amount him and his contract is worth.

Starting position.
1. Hill is contracted by the Saints. We don't want him gone. It doesn't help us to have him gone. Even if he's just a depth player to us giving him away doesn't help us.
Worst case we pay him and he doesn't play because we have better options.
Best case he plays some good footy.

2.Junk pick for Hill.
What is the junk pick worth. Junk. We don't need a junk pick. See 1. But if we wait he will walk the following year and we'll get nothing. Oh well , its a junk pick. Best case. Junk pick plays AFL one day. Worst case , he doesn't, Crap deal.


3. 2nd round pick
OK , if he really really really wants to go, we could probably stomach that.
Pay some of his salary? Why on earth would we want to. If we want to pay him, we want to play him. Seriously a second round pick will not significantly influence our immediate future.
Best case, we fluke a decent second round pick, probably won't play decent footy until 2025.
Worst case we end up with nothing.

4. 1st round pick AND we pay his salary.
Basically we could buy a better pick.

If we take a crap trade AND pay his salary, then i have zero confidence in our club to negotiate a 6 inch salad roll from a Subway store ,and i'm checking out of things for a while.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Gresham would be one of the dumbest trades we've done since last time we did a dumb trade. Why would you chase DeGoey and then sell off Gresham? It would be another questionable decision by a group that are not getting many wins on the board.

Its like ,
The season didn't go how we planned it.

PANIC

QUICK ..... DO SOMETHING REALLY DUMB !!!!! ANYTHING !!!!!

 

[The Punter]

With Hill, part of the issue from a list management view is that Ratten can't help but play him.

Last Sunday, none of McKenzie, Wood or Billings played. Someone needs to come out for those guys if they are to play. Ratten has shown it won't be Hill.

Hill doesn't play in a position of need and he's the highest paid player at the club. I think if someone took all of his salary, I'm not sure I'd be too worried about what I'd be getting in return. Hill wasn't in my Round 1 2023 team. I'd rather have all three players I mentioned earlier or NWM (who also wasn't in my team).

My previous talent comment was about Gresham. We haven't gotten from Hill what we thought we were getting.

 

[gringo2011]

I think we need to cool our jets a little with Owens. He has a lot of potential but he's not what is call a lock to make it as a quality AFL footballer.

Still has a long way to go

Windhager on the other hand I'm extremely confident will be a gun

To me they both look really good compared to most of the kids we've brought in in the last decade. That academy leg up might be giving them a head start but there is plenty to work with. Owens has a really power burst, if he turns into an inside mid he could be an absolute weapon. It's going a bit early but they both have really heigh end potential.

Windy is lucky that he found the tagging role where he's able to negate a player while learning tricks from the best but Owens is supposed to have a the work ethic and has latched on to Steele early and is mimicking everything he does. He played first for a reason and that kind of dedication seems to pay dividends. Walsh and Bailey Smith were apparently both very driven kids who left no stone unturned. Hopefully Owens has that kind of ceiling.

 

[phantom13]

The only potential issue with offloading Hills whole salary (and im sure its one we can fix pretty easily) would be that if Hanners and Hills money goes off our books wed be getting close to the minimum required payment of the salary cap if we dont get any FA's. Youd likely just renegotiate whoever we have coming off contract in the next two years and top them up early (think a 5 year deal for Roma front loaded sort of thing)

 

[BrutThough]

Starting position.
1. Hill is contracted by the Saints. We don't want him gone. It doesn't help us to have him gone. Even if he's just a depth player to us giving him away doesn't help us.
Worst case we pay him and he doesn't play because we have better options.
Best case he plays some good footy.

2.Junk pick for Hill.
What is the junk pick worth. Junk. We don't need a junk pick. See 1. But if we wait he will walk the following year and we'll get nothing. Oh well , its a junk pick. Best case. Junk pick plays AFL one day. Worst case , he doesn't, Crap deal.


3. 2nd round pick
OK , if he really really really wants to go, we could probably stomach that.
Pay some of his salary? Why on earth would we want to. If we want to pay him, we want to play him. Seriously a second round pick will not significantly influence our immediate future.
Best case, we fluke a decent second round pick, probably won't play decent footy until 2025.
Worst case we end up with nothing.

4. 1st round pick AND we pay his salary.
Basically we could buy a better pick.

If we take a crap trade AND pay his salary, then i have zero confidence in our club to negotiate a 6 inch salad roll from a Subway store ,and i'm checking out of things for a while.

Are we sure about this? There seems to be more mail coming out in the media that people within the club aren't exactly thrilled with the Brad Hill experience.

Could it be like Bruce where we initially said we didn't want him to go before it laters comes out that everyone was sick of his attitude and he was advised it was best he seeks an alternative destination.

 

[phantom13]

With Hill, part of the issue from a list management view is that Ratten can't help but play him.

Last Sunday, none of McKenzie, Wood or Billings played. Someone needs to come out for those guys if they are to play. Ratten has shown it won't be Hill.

Hill doesn't play in a position of need and he's the highest paid player at the club. I think if someone took all of his salary, I'm not sure I'd be too worried about what I'd be getting in return. Hill wasn't in my Round 1 2023 team. I'd rather have all three players I mentioned earlier or NWM (who also wasn't in my team).

My previous talent comment was about Gresham. We haven't gotten from Hill what we thought we were getting.

Hills best footy came as a HFF so if we cant offload him id be happy to try that (it also gives him the chase to pressure with chasedowns which is the only type of tackle he likes).

 

[Yawkey way]

I think both have played well at the Saints and have gone rapidly backwards since. The forward structure gives them nothing to work with. We pretty much have a set up that relies on King kicking 6 gals to make us competitive. If he has a bad day we lose.

That’s true gringo but they have limitations, in an ideal world with Gresham more forward than mid maybe one or both are playing at sandy.

 

[gringo2011]

Funny how we got an AA that does just that.
Hill was moved from the wing because he failed. DMAC and Wood are better wingers.

What run off HB?... that's exactly what I said. That's where he wants his run and carry. None of our wings do that, Once it clears defence we try to control ball movement. We aren't good at it but we don't use traditional wings. Those guys are like extra marking and midfield types who run end to end as do the high HFs.

We've changed it up a bit since 2020 too. We were real WCE/Geelong chip mark then. Now we are a bit of a mess of ideas. That's when Hill really struggled because we rarely went sideways or backwards and tried to move it fast by foot to a lead up mark. Hill would run along side and they'd be looking ahead.

 

[gringo2011]

Or people who believe 'some experts'.

They give me hillbillies taking the cow to market vibes so I can't blame them.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Maybe just maybe they looked better in better teams. There has been any number of good ordinary players who looked pretty good only to be found out without great players around them at other clubs. Higgins had lynch, Riewoldt and a cast of many VG players around him, butler the same thing. Hill years at hawthorn and so on, great teams don’t often loose players they want to keep.

Screw those other teams, they looked better in our bloody team when we got them!!!!

 

[The_Steadier]

he seemed cooked in the last few games he played

Still has his leap though.

Someone like the cats or lions could nurse him through the season on minimum wage and he could be a matchwinner in september.

 

[DougalHoward]

Still has his leap though.

Someone like the cats or lions could nurse him through the season on minimum wage and he could be a matchwinner in september.

I was thinking Geelong could pick him up but they wouldn't use him resting forward

And they're still after Goldstein

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With Hill, part of the issue from a list management view is that Ratten can't help but play him.

Last Sunday, none of McKenzie, Wood or Billings played. Someone needs to come out for those guys if they are to play. Ratten has shown it won't be Hill.

Hill doesn't play in a position of need and he's the highest paid player at the club. I think if someone took all of his salary, I'm not sure I'd be too worried about what I'd be getting in return. Hill wasn't in my Round 1 2023 team. I'd rather have all three players I mentioned earlier or NWM (who also wasn't in my team).

My previous talent comment was about Gresham. We haven't gotten from Hill what we thought we were getting.

In light of recent information.

Ratten can play whoever he wants to .....
Except.....
Tell me we don't have a one man selection committee.

Some of our players get paid more than others.
Some of them were early draft picks.
Some of them were high profile trades.
Some were rookies.

Forget all that crap.
Sit down...look at the players we have. Pick the ones who will win the game.

 

[gringo2011]

Are we sure about this? There seems to be more mail coming out in the media that people within the club aren't exactly thrilled with the Brad Hill experience.

Could it be like Bruce where we initially said we didn't want him to go before it laters comes out that everyone was sick of his attitude and he was advised it was best he seeks an alternative destination.

Or the club just blames the player to make dumping them palatable to the fans.

 

[Joffaboy]

The only potential issue with offloading Hills whole salary (and im sure its one we can fix pretty easily) would be that if Hanners and Hills money goes off our books wed be getting close to the minimum required payment of the salary cap if we dont get any FA's. Youd likely just renegotiate whoever we have coming off contract in the next two years and top them up early (think a 5 year deal for Roma front loaded sort of thing)

Or we attract a Dunkley and waltz him into the PSD with a huge first year salary.

Rarely happens though.

 

[gringo2011]

That’s true gringo but they have limitations, in an ideal world with Gresham more forward than mid maybe one or both are playing at sandy.

Butler is pretty much just pressure now and Snags has had his spirit crushed. A new forwards coach could have us reinvented up forward in about a week. Sending anyone into our forward line as it is is just setting them up to fail. If we dropped forwards who can't get a kick at the moment we'd have King as the solo forward.

 

[Joffaboy]

Are we sure about this? There seems to be more mail coming out in the media that people within the club aren't exactly thrilled with the Brad Hill experience.

Could it be like Bruce where we initially said we didn't want him to go before it laters comes out that everyone was sick of his attitude and he was advised it was best he seeks an alternative destination.

The only noises are coming from North. Not a word from St. Kilda.

Why do you people want the Saints to take nothing for a contracted player who is being actively sought by another club?

Minimum would be pick 20 and 200k.of contract. 2nd pick plus they take all salary.

We have the whip hand.