List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[The Punter]

We chased our tail on ruck/forwards there for a while.

2011 - We have McEvoy as primary ruck and Stanley as ruck/forward.
2012 - get Hickey in, ignore Grundy in draft (by trading picks away, not choosing someone else in draft)
2013 - Hickey can play forward a bit, get Longer in, McEvoy becomes expendable.
2014 - Can't play Hickey, Longer and Stanley all together, trade Stanley.
2015 - Play Longer and Hickey together when fitness permits
2016 - Don't play Longer and Hickey together, spend some time on Holmes, draft Marshall in rookie draft.
2017 - Marshall can play ruck/forward
2018 - trade Hickey
2019 - Marshall plays better as ruck, get rid of almost everyone else, trade for Ryder, draft Abbott
2020 - Abbott not very good, delist Abbott, sign McKernan and Hunter
2021 - Hunter not very good, McKernan washed, sign Heath and Campbell

The saga continues...

 

[BrutThough]

I consider there is no way we'd have traded Hickey if we knew that Longer would retire early.
As it was , it was IIther or EEther. ( We have an old thread full of the pro's and cons ).
We were very unlucky with concussion.

Also with Hickey - if we had kept him, would Marshall have got the extended run in the ruck which took him to a new level as a player? Probably not.

To me, that's a trade that's been good for both parties - we are in a good spot with Marshall and Hickey, via West Coast, got somewhere he could consistently play good football.

 

[gringo2011]

I consider there is no way we'd have traded Hickey if we knew that Longer would retire early.
As it was , it was IIther or EEther. ( We have an old thread full of the pro's and cons ).
We were very unlucky with concussion.

Longer was no good and didn't give a shit about footy. They just looked at something that there was an offer for and didn't care about how it worked with the long term list build. There never seems to be a strategy, just shift things around to buy time before they get the sack.

 

[MordySaint]

My point was very clear.

You’ll pot the club for anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Total BS, I have an opinion on why our club keeps stumbling when it gets close to the finals

Most of it is psychological and my point was you can't repeated prosper from selling inner sanctum information for click bait.

 

[gringo2011]

Stanley wouldn't get a game with us now

We just used the pick wrong

It's one more thing that we had to go and chase. He'd be near retiring now but in 8 years we still haven't got any closer to finalising our ruck set up that was sorted with Big Mac and Stanley.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Stanley we used the pick for on Hugh Goddard and gave them a pick back for Jordan Cunico. Even Cunico out performed Goddard at 15 games. Stanley could play in a premiership this year. It was a bomb. Hind got a pick we didn't use. There is trading and then there is just moving pieces around for the sake of it. Everything should be based around improvement. One in one out and often down grading isn't that. Acres outperforming Hill, Bruce for Jones who looks worse now and worth nothing etc.

If we'd kept Stanley, then traded McEvoy and recruited Hickey the same way we did. Surely we wouldn't have traded for Longer.
The pick we gave for Longer was used to draft McStay. The following picks were Merrett, Lemmens, Lewis Taylor, and Lobb.

 

[jh38]

Clark has skill and heaps of courage.

But unfortunately is unprofessional off the field.

Does not prepare like an elite footballer, is happy being on a list earning good coin and being able to still party on the peninsula with his mates .

Needs somebody to pull him aside a bit like Geelong did with Ablett .

Could be a super start of the competition.

This sounds like half of our list to be honest. To me it seems like the players at our club don't do anything with conviction, but rather just go through the motions and are happy to get by saying they played footy at the highest level. There doesn't seem to be any drive to achieve anything beyond that.

 

[BrutThough]

If we'd kept Stanley, then traded McEvoy and recruited Hickey the same way we did. Surely we wouldn't have traded for Longer.
The pick we gave for Longer was used to draft McStay. The following picks were Merrett, Lemmens, Lewis Taylor, and Lobb.

Longer was already on our list when we traded Stanley.

 

[gringo2011]

We chased our tail on ruck/forwards there for a while.

2011 - We have McEvoy as primary ruck and Stanley as ruck/forward.
2012 - get Hickey in, ignore Grundy in draft (by trading picks away, not choosing someone else in draft)
2013 - Hickey can play forward a bit, get Longer in, McEvoy becomes expendable.
2014 - Can't play Hickey, Longer and Stanley all together, trade Stanley.
2015 - Play Longer and Hickey together when fitness permits
2016 - Don't play Longer and Hickey together, spend some time on Holmes, draft Marshall in rookie draft.
2017 - Marshall can play ruck/forward
2018 - trade Hickey
2019 - Marshall plays better as ruck, get rid of almost everyone else, trade for Ryder, draft Abbott
2020 - Abbott not very good, delist Abbott, sign McKernan and Hunter
2021 - Hunter not very good, McKernan washed, sign Heath and Campbell

The saga continues...

Bruce was back up ruck as well so now we want Lobb who is the same age and probably cost more for the same role and about the same level. You couldn't make up some of this shit.

 

[gringo2011]

This sounds like half of our list to be honest. To me it seems like the players at our club don't do anything with conviction, but rather just go through the motions and are happy to get by saying they played footy at the highest level. There doesn't seem to be any drive to achieve anything beyond that.

Players take about 4 to 5 years to come on and just as HC is about to hit his prime curve upwards we panic and cut and run.

I don't care any more but just get the best staff in that they can find and don't let the same idiots break shit again. They've proven that they are out of their depth. If Bassat is a recruiting man it should be easy to find the best recruiter available and a list manger with a proven track record of building a finals ready elite list.

At the moment we are pretending that it's a lottery and that if you just hope enough, eventually things will go our way.

 

[George]

Yeah there’s pages of posters saying he’s a star…

Rubbish post, he has a crack, one of few that cracks in at that intensity. People enjoy that, literally nobody is labelling him a star.

Nap time.

Really poor post from a mod.

And I'm STILL waiting on that list of IP addresses, turbo. Put that shiny little sheriff's badge to good use

 

[lewdogs]

Players take about 4 to 5 years to come on and just as HC is about to hit his prime curve upwards we panic and cut and run.

I don't care any more but just get the best staff in that they can find and don't let the same idiots break s**t again. They've proven that they are out of their depth. If Bassat is a recruiting man it should be easy to find the best recruiter available and a list manger with a proven track record of building a finals ready elite list.

At the moment we are pretending that it's a lottery and that if you just hope enough, eventually things will go our way.

The way you're describing it it's as if we are a basket case. We won half our games, there's not an enormous amount that needs to change to become a finals team. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Joffaboy]

Acres - sold off - delisted by Freo ----- Not yet
Bruce - sold off - lucky if not delisted, dropped for the finals ----- Has provided great service to the dogs
Newness - sold off - delisted ----- wrong decision, part of our leadership group... got caught in the cross fire of the Richo/Ratten changeover
Hind - sold off - lol, spudarama ----- 2021 Essendon beat us by 80 points - 2022 Essendon beat us by 50 points. More than decent AFL player
Stanley - sold off - ok in a good team, Geelong fans aren't keen ----- Underrated
Hickey - sold off - would have kept IMO ----- I remember us playing that American dude before Hickey on occasions

Acres - sold off - delisted by Freo ----- Not yet - will get traded, I would seriously look at taking him back
Bruce - sold off - lucky if not delisted, dropped for the finals ----- Has provided great service to the dogs - think he is done the acl is it and even with no other forward he was dropped. has been absolutely rubbish after coming back
Newness - sold off - delisted ----- wrong decision, part of our leadership group... got caught in the cross fire of the Richo/Ratten changeover - delisted. Played 207 games pretty good for a GOP. Not missed
Hind - sold off - lol, spudarama ----- 2021 Essendon beat us by 80 points - 2022 Essendon beat us by 50 points. More than decent AFL player - Hind had nothing to do with those losses. Won't tackle, a complete one way player, wouldn't get a game at the Saints
Stanley - sold off - ok in a good team, Geelong fans aren't keen ----- Underrated -not by many - no great loss IMO
Hickey - sold off - would have kept IMO ----- I remember us playing that American dude before Hickey on occasions - never understood getting rid of Hickey

 

[gringo2011]

The way you're describing it it's as if we are a basket case. We won half our games, there's not an enormous amount that needs to change to become a finals team. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Sounds like we are about to refresh so finals probably off the cards for another couple of years. I'm so ****ing sick of waiting. Nothing much is going to change but we'll trim the depth and a few decent players for some kids who we hope might be better than what we have but persist with a terrible coach and strategist.

I'm happy if they want to go again but they need to change the staff that took us here in the first place or we'll be back here in 5 years with one or two people trying to muster the energy to give a shit any more.

 

[jh38]

Players take about 4 to 5 years to come on and just as HC is about to hit his prime curve upwards we panic and cut and run.

I don't care any more but just get the best staff in that they can find and don't let the same idiots break s**t again. They've proven that they are out of their depth. If Bassat is a recruiting man it should be easy to find the best recruiter available and a list manger with a proven track record of building a finals ready elite list.

At the moment we are pretending that it's a lottery and that if you just hope enough, eventually things will go our way.

You look at all the elite lists out there and for the most part they're 90% built via the draft with a few players coming in late to fill holes e.g. Langdon, Prestia. We have a terrible habit of drafting project players who need a few years to actually come good, as opposed to drafting kids who are first team ready. This year we actually drafted one in Windhager and the results speak for themselves. Our list managers and recruiters should be looking at players who can immediately have an impact out of the draft.

 

[Joffaboy]

This sounds like half of our list to be honest. To me it seems like the players at our club don't do anything with conviction, but rather just go through the motions and are happy to get by saying they played footy at the highest level. There doesn't seem to be any drive to achieve anything beyond that.

it's the whole effing league. Nobody is 'loyal' or 'plays for the jumper'. It is a business. That why I am so amused to read 'we should get so and so, he was a Saints fan' like it means anything.

I think the players try, but are mentally weak. When they were up and about they were playing good football. After the bye, they just fell away shockingly.

 

[True Believer]

Hill to North for 19 (Depends on many factors)
Bytel to Essendon for 41
Long and 46 to Gold Coast for 26 & 33 (probably wishful thinking, and I don't actually want to trade him)
Clark to Hawthorn for 25 (similar to the above, but wouldn't be devastated if he went)

26, 28, 33 & 41 to Brisbane for 15
15 & 19 to Western Bulldogs for 10

New draft hand is 9,10 & 25

You've got 4 players exiting and end up with only 3 draft picks! And that's not including the 5 that have already retired !!

 

[lewdogs]

Sounds like we are about to refresh so finals probably off the cards for another couple of years. I'm so ******* sick of waiting. Nothing much is going to change but we'll trim the depth and a few decent players for some kids who we hope might be better than what we have but persist with a terrible coach and strategist.

I'm happy if they want to go again but they need to change the staff that took us here in the first place or we'll be back here in 5 years with one or two people trying to muster the energy to give a s**t any more.

Where are you getting this from? I think you need to breathe, we said we were after De Goey why would we do that if we are doing a refresh? The club will absolutely be aiming for finals next year.

 

[WRFL Indentity]

You've got 4 players exiting and end up with only 3 draft picks! And that's not including the 5 that have already retired !!

We still have FA, the draft, rookie upgrades and DFA. Plenty of moving parts. Also, I'm not a list manager's backside, so there is that.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Please no one sook about losing Josh Bruce

17

Josh Bruce

Age

33

Ht

198cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

90.4

1star

D

8.9

2star

K

3.5

1star

HB

5.4

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

90.4

2star

D

11.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

. He’s so bad

 

[gringo2011]

You look at all the elite lists out there and for the most part they're 90% built via the draft with a few players coming in late to fill holes e.g. Langdon, Prestia. We have a terrible habit of drafting project players who need a few years to actually come good, as opposed to drafting kids who are first team ready. This year we actually drafted one in Windhager and the results speak for themselves. Our list managers and recruiters should be looking at players who can immediately have an impact out of the draft.

I've been saying that for a decade. We have built for a quick finals fix then when we are supposed to be reaping finals we are back at rebuild. Windhager and Owens look good but they won't take the place of one of our best mids for a few seasons. If they are rebuilding I think they should have a planned refresh or rebuild or what ever. If we want instant impact we trade for Hopper or Taranto, if we want a premiership in 5 years build through best available talent.

 

[jh38]

it's the whole effing league. Nobody is 'loyal' or 'plays for the jumper'. It is a business. That why I am so amused to read 'we should get so and so, he was a Saints fan' like it means anything.

I think the players try, but are mentally weak. When they were up and about they were playing good football. After the bye, they just fell away shockingly.

Oh 100%, I was watching a video about NFL preseason the other day and the main message that the coach was getting across to his players was that everything that you do has to be done with a championship winning mentality. There is none of that over here. I'd be pretty happy to estimate that 95% of players are happy with where they're at. Mentally weak is the right way to put it.

 

[gringo2011]

Where are you getting this from? I think you need to breathe, we said we were after De Goey why would we do that if we are doing a refresh? The club will absolutely be aiming for finals next year.

Reading Stavro, I think he's pretty on the money usually.

 

[jh38]

I've been saying that for a decade. We have built for a quick finals fix then when we are supposed to be reaping finals we are back at rebuild. Windhager and Owens look good but they won't take the place of one of our best mids for a few seasons. If they are rebuilding I think they should have a planned refresh or rebuild or what ever. If we want instant impact we trade for Hopper or Taranto, if we want a premiership in 5 years build through best available talent.

I think we should do everything in our power to get another pick in and around the top 10, if we can land both McKenzie and Humphrey then we have a very good young midfield core. It also puts a rocket up the ass of guys around that 23-26 age group (Clark, Gresham, etc) because their spot is now at risk.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Where did you hear this?

SEN this morning.
"On clubs' radars" just means they're maybe asking the question - which would happen with many players every season I'd imagine.