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List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading

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rabidcrow said:
Why would he want to come here? He is an upcoming star in a side that has been contending for a while and will continue to contend for a while. May well be a premiership player in a fortnight

And financially will be well looked after. No reason for him to look here


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He has spent less time in cbas this year pushed out to the wing. We have seen him play so well since Ashcroft did his ACL, but the uncertainty of his position long term is genuine.

Be the number 1 mid and get a payrise - that's the offer.

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DJ75 said:
Watching the SANFL yesterday (or the half I could stomach to watch before i turned it off), and it's a real concern at how poorly Berry is going. His season has been very ordinary. In fact I'd say Hately is a much better player - and Hately is absolutely being delisted. Hately will probably return to Centrals and win a Magarey.

I know we had a LOT out with injuries, but I didn't see a single guy playing yesterday that I was excited about for the future. Not one.
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Hately could be rookie listed,especially if rated above Brown.

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DJ75 said:
Watching the SANFL yesterday (or the half I could stomach to watch before i turned it off), and it's a real concern at how poorly Berry is going. His season has been very ordinary. In fact I'd say Hately is a much better player - and Hately is absolutely being delisted. Hately will probably return to Centrals and win a Magarey.

I know we had a LOT out with injuries, but I didn't see a single guy playing yesterday that I was excited about for the future. Not one.
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A bad game to watch to assess the future.
Thats what now 4 out of 4 prelims we've lost in. In three years time when its 7 out of 7 do you think the game will be up? The club throws these games.

Much better to look at some of the minor round games and there is still a lot to like amongst the players out there. Dowling had some great games. Cook has probably had his best season, still not great, he never really has a great game but has lots of good moments in some games. He feels like a slightly poorer mans Pedlar and a year or even two behind.

Gollant shows a heap of promise.

Berry has played well previously, still think he and Bond rely heavily on their conditioning and fitness and having been injured lost the condition and just never got it back.

Hamill's pretty good, just not really suited to our gamestyle. He is one that look for a trade to a team that plays a more open game style. He'd flourish in one.

Taylor was great, pity he got injured. Pity Nank got injured. Pity Strachan got injured. It was a pity Himmelberg was injured too, he would've been a major help providing a tall target up forward and chopping out Strachan in the ruck which would've left Borlase with more gas in the tank to do the chasing for his defensive job.

Anyway, so IMO there was at least 4 still to be excited about Taylor/Dowling/Cook and Gollant. That's a reasonable list out of our last few drafts. Gonna have a few misses.
 
1970crow said:
I don’t really understand this strategy. If he’s prepared to come to us why don’t we wait to get him for nothing but cap next year. Use those resources to get something we can’t get for nothing. I understand eliminating risk he re-signs next year, but to keep those picks I reckon you roll the dice on that.
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I'm only suggesting it because I see our first round pick this year as being of quite low value. This draft does not have what we are after so it's better used in a package to shake out a gun player from another team, even if that player is a free agent soon
 

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Scorpus said:
I'm only suggesting it because I see our first round pick this year as being of quite low value. This draft does not have what we are after so it's better used in a package to shake out a gun player from another team, even if that player is a free agent soon
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Push this years pick into next year and use it to move up the order to get Draper and then take Welsh as f/s.
 
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Hodgy said:
I’m not sure what player you are refering to but I was just commenting on your post stating that we are not contending next year. It’s massively glass is half empty and is not supported by any facts from this year. We clearly showed that we were incredibly close or better than all 4 of the top 4 teams, and we had arguably the most dynamic forward line of the comp.

I would add that nothing in AFL list management (or any business for that matter) can be seen in “isolation” as you put it. Everything depends on the other 500 moving parts. In our case maximizing Tex, Laird and Smiths last few years plays a huge part in any decisions on using future assets now. What you believe the growth level of your juniors is going to be next year versus 2 or 3 years is also a huge consideration.
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what's the point if you're going to ignore the key component of the discussion? And we're not contending next year, we'd need a similarly good run with injuries, which we're already behind the 8 ball with. It's more likely we go a little backwards than forward enough to be in the discussion for top 4. Foregoing a shot at another Rankine or Rachele for the sake of trading for a player to get an extra year would be crazy stupid. When we did it for Gibbs in 2017 it had merit as we had every reason to think we'd be around the top 4 again. Even then, if he was coming to FA the next year, you'd have to wonder whether it would be worth pulling the trigger just to have him for 2018.
 
Carmo said:
All deals can be turned down. That's why they call them deals and not enslavements.

The club has at least once offered the biggest money deal to a player (Cameron) and still got turned down. If you are already offering the biggest money, best conditions, in a team likely to play in finals and grand finals and you get turned down what's the plan then??
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keep trying, you lose nothing by being turned down, arrive at the same destination as where you started.
 
Carmo said:
Much better to look at some of the minor round games and there is still a lot to like amongst the players out there. Dowling had some great games. Cook has probably had his best season, still not great, he never really has a great game but has lots of good moments in some games. He feels like a slightly poorer mans Pedlar and a year or even two behind.

Gollant shows a heap of promise.

Berry has played well previously, still think he and Bond rely heavily on their conditioning and fitness and having been injured lost the condition and just never got it back.

Hamill's pretty good, just not really suited to our gamestyle. He is one that look for a trade to a team that plays a more open game style. He'd flourish in one.

Taylor was great, pity he got injured. Pity Nank got injured. Pity Strachan got injured. It was a pity Himmelberg was injured too, he would've been a major help providing a tall target up forward and chopping out Strachan in the ruck which would've left Borlase with more gas in the tank to do the chasing for his defensive job.
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After a great game as a FWD last week ....the Coach plays Cook back up the field
Cook is reminding me of Gary Rohan, who was drafted as a speedy wing ....but somehow never got enough as a Wing, but has shone as a fwd

Until Gollant starts one grabbing marks consistently, he's going to be a fringe player ....too many easy marks missed due to "hard hands"

Hamill's got value ...should be traded IMO ....22 YO with pace, high demand product ....just not at the Crows
 
I doubt we will trade up for pick 4. Reckon GC will want a future first plus another 2 picks. I know most clubs will try to hold off against the future first. Curious to see who wins the battle.

I think the AFC's nature of being a delayed gratifier rather than an instant gratifier coupled with next year being a better draft plus witht the uncertainty around our FS's means instead of trading our 2024 into this year most likely we'll leave it alone and possibly even trade into next year ourselves (in second, third and fourth round). Then when we know more where Welsh and Michalanney no 2 (he's 2024 isn't he?) will land then we'll decide what to do. We might bring our 2025 first into 2024 to get up the board or take the 2024 first into 2025. So you might have to wait 2 years yet to see the advantages of Welsh allowing our first to be traded around.

Perhaps maybe we might try to get a swap of 2024 firsts with someone. That's about the most exciting thing I can see us doing in a list of mostly not exciting things. The idea being that we might rise up the board a bit next year, so to keep at the top end of the draft we have to roll the dice on someone we think might drop or stay down the bottom end (potential droppers? Geelong, Port, Richmond, St Kilda, clubs that might think they'll rise up but stay the same, WB, Freo, Ess??) .
 

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Vader said:
Why would they do that?
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If they still think he's good depth.

Came over in the PSD from GWS when we needed good news, has played well in the 2nds.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but letting Brown go and moving Hately to rookie frees a spot on the main list for Borlase doesn't it?

It would be a good move IMO.

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not sure if posted already - partial article below


AFL trade news 2023: Melbourne working out deals for Brodie Grundy, Shane McAdam

Could the Crows take what Melbourne get for Brodie Grundy in the deal of Shane McAdam? Or is a South Australian Demon in their sights? Get the latest trade intel.

Melbourne won’t stand in the way of Brodie Grundy’s trade request to Sydney as the Demons search the competition for a replacement back-up big man.
It shapes as a busy trade period for the Demons, who look set to permit Grundy’s move to the Swans for a potential second-round draft pick and welcome Adelaide Crows’ playmaker Shane McAdam.

Adelaide wants a mature-age player in return but will face heavy resistance from Melbourne if the Crows zero in on versatile tall Harrison Petty or hard nut midfielder Tom Sparrow.

Melbourne could look to let go of James Harmes, 27, or Adam Tomlinson, 30, in a deal for McAdam, 28.

But the Demons will likely meet with Grundy, 29, in the next couple of days as part of the club’s player exit meetings following an agonizing second-straight straight-sets finals departure on Friday night.

Grundy is almost certain to tell the club he wants to play for the Swans next year where, he will lead John Longmire’s ruck division and partner up with assistant coach and champion West Coast ruckman Dean Cox.

The Swans have picks 22 (from Hawthorn) and 30 to do the deal one year after Melbourne parted with pick 27 for the dual All-Australian.
 
WaynesWorld19 said:
After a great game as a FWD last week ....the Coach plays Cook back up the field
Cook is reminding me of Gary Rohan, who was drafted as a speedy wing ....but somehow never got enough as a Wing, but has shone as a fwd

Until Gollant starts one grabbing marks consistently, he's going to be a fringe player ....too many easy marks missed due to "hard hands"

Hamill's got value ...should be traded IMO ....22 YO with pace, high demand product ....just not at the Crows
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Cook got played everywhere yesterday, he was one of several attempted mr fixits. Did well everywhere he played but just wasn't enough with our overall system being beaten. Was asked to be a marking target since he was one of our taller players and he did his best but as good as he is, going up against key positioners is probably not his go. Burns a lot of fuel wrestling and leaping from deep and then doesn't have the energy to do the running stuff we also need him to do.

I wouldn't look to much to individual performances these days. How an individual looks heavily depends on how the systems going. A player can look a million bucks but be actually playing poorly in a system that's going well and he can look poor but be having career best performances in a system that's going poorly.
 
1970crow said:
So you're happy to forego an entire career of Izaak Rankine or Josh Rachele for a single extra year of McCluggage in 2024? I really do find that absolutely amazing.
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We already have Rankine and Rachele, we also have Dawson and we have Laird..don't you think adding a McLuggage for NEXT YEAR might..just might propel us high into the finals and MAYBE we are a chance at al flag

Equally I find it astonishing that people want to keep kicking the can down the road..Tex won't be here forever and a year like he has had this year or close to it with a stronger midfield and we can dare to dream
 

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Scorpus said:
You do it all again with a different player
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How much club resources do you want devoted to it?
What success rate do you look for, one in 5, one in 10, one in 20, what if you're not even getting one in say 30, is there a cut off where you assign it to the too hard basket and instead look at other options??

Are there examples of clubs going down this path and still not having any success?

Are there examples of clubs not going down this path and having success?
 
Need to be going in on elite talent now whether it is successful or not is a different story but if you don't think we are nearly there you didnt watch this season. What we missed in many of those competitive losses was that extra bit of class.

If we had the choice to get elite talent now or take a punt on a draft selection next year it's a no brainer - elite talent now everytime. People seem to forget that draftees are a gamble. We will not attract further interest from rival clubs if we don't keep adding new talent.
 
Carmo said:
I wouldn't look to much to individual performances these days. How an individual looks heavily depends on how the systems going. A player can look a million bucks but be actually playing poorly in a system that's going well and he can look poor but be having career best performances in a system that's going poorly.
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I differ on this ....in Finals systems often are dishevelled, the game is more about taking ground, by any means

Port yesterday, allowed GWS to play their system, without enough pressure to crack it

Therefore IMO ....players have to have the skills, competitiveness, and ball winning skills ...NOT to have to depend on a system ....they'll look great in a good system, but they're the type of players that can help turn momentum, that's running against us

It's why I value Murphy ...Pedlar, and Keays
 
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