List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading

[WaynesWorld19]

How much club resources do you want devoted to it?
What success rate do you look for, one in 5, one in 10, one in 20, what if you're not even getting one in say 30, is there a cut off where you assign it to the too hard basket and instead look at other options??

Are there examples of clubs going down this path and still not having any success?

Are there examples of clubs not going down this path and having success?

North Melb ....St Kilda !

 

[crows dude]

Delist/Retire/Trade - McCasey, Hately, Seedsman, McAdam, McPherson, Newchurch, Hamill, Brown
Upgrades Borlase, Parnell, Murray

McCasey Gone
1. Jones
2. Keays
3. Berry
4 Murphy
5. Crouch
Hately - Delisted (if no takers or not drafted sign him as SANFL Captain)
6. Thilthorpe
7. Rachele
8. Sloane
9. Pedlar
Seedsman Retired
10 Dawson
11 Walker
12 Soligo
13 Cook
14 Michalanney
Hamill Retired
15 Taylor
16 Hinge
Brown Delisted
17 Rankine
McAdam Traded
18 Worrell
19 McHenry
20 Schoenberg
21 Nankervis
22 Murray upgraded to senior list
23 Laird
24 Milera
25 Dowling
26 Fogarty
27 Smith
28 Himmelberg
29 Borlase - Added to Senior list
McPherson - Delisted
30 Parnell Added to Senior List
31 Sholl
32 Doedee
33 Bond
34 Butts
Newchurch Delisted
35 O'Brien
36 Gollant
37 Strachan
38 Keane

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Not many flags seem to have been won recently without the club having traded in a high quality and important role player from another club. You mustn't be happy with our decisions to chase Rankine and Dawson.

Dawson was a cheap get ....Rankine better than any other player available at our Draft position

The topic was "all chips in" to get an A-Grader .....those two players are not good comparisons

 

[crows dude]

That was Wright's last game.

I thought that last year.

 

[Stone Sour]

I thought that last year.

Godden mentioned that it was after yesterday's game

 

[crows dude]

Godden mentioned that it was after yesterday's game

Yep just read the statment.

 

[1970crow]

We already have Rankine and Rachele, we also have Dawson and we have Laird..don't you think adding a McLuggage for NEXT YEAR might..just might propel us high into the finals and MAYBE we are a chance at al flag

Equally I find it astonishing that people want to keep kicking the can down the road..Tex won't be here forever and a year like he has had this year or close to it with a stronger midfield and we can dare to dream

It's 1 year, you're foregoing a career from Dawson, Laird, Rankine or Rachele for just a single year of McCluggage. You'd want to be very confident that McCluggage is going to be the difference between winning a flag or not in 2024. Because you're foregoing an entire career of a high pick to get him in 1 year earlier. If we win the flag it's awesome, but the higher likelihood is that we end up with a worse outcome than the Gibbs trade.

 

[1970crow]

How much club resources do you want devoted to it?
What success rate do you look for, one in 5, one in 10, one in 20, what if you're not even getting one in say 30, is there a cut off where you assign it to the too hard basket and instead look at other options??

Are there examples of clubs going down this path and still not having any success?

Are there examples of clubs not going down this path and having success?

Re the former, yes, plenty, there's only one premier each year. Re the latter, no, not really, maybe Dogs in 2016. Otherwise, recent premiers have all chased high end talent via trade/FA.

 

[Golumless]

We’re not contending next year, come 2025 we’ll regret costing ourselves a potential 250 gamer on the delusion 2024 could be a flag year.

We're contenting in '25 though. Having Dawson break out as a top-tier midfielder forces our hand in that regard. Equally, there is no guarantee you get the guy in free agency. Sometimes it is a matter of striking whilst the iron is hot.

Equally, who gives a flying **** about a potential 250 gamer when you have an elite midfielder. For every Josh Rachele there is a Chayce Jones lurking in the first round, or worse a Jordan Gallucci. That's the kind of logic that sees you never trade for a big fish.

 

[Crow till I die]

It's 1 year, you're foregoing a career from Dawson, Laird, Rankine or Rachele for just a single year of McCluggage. You'd want to be very confident that McCluggage is going to be the difference between winning a flag or not in 2024. Because you're foregoing an entire career of a high pick to get him in 1 year earlier. If we win the flag it's awesome, but the higher likelihood is that we end up with a worse outcome than the Gibbs trade.

I know where you are coming from but likewise, next year, why couldn't we bring our 2025 1st into next years draft if we wanted to get that extra 1st round kid? we know Welsh and the younger Michalanney are F/S for us next year AND there would also be nothing stopping us going after a FA next year as well..why not work the oracle to have it all

 

[1970crow]

I differ on this ....in Finals systems often are dishevelled, the game is more about taking ground, by any means

Port yesterday, allowed GWS to play their system, without enough pressure to crack it

Therefore IMO ....players have to have the skills, competitiveness, and ball winning skills ...NOT to have to depend on a system ....they'll look great in a good system, but they're the type of players that can help turn momentum, that's running against us

It's why I value Murphy ...Pedlar, and Keays

you're right and you're right to value Pedlar. Finals is about getting players to the contest, winning hard balls and then making good decisions and executing under pressure. Systems help you get there, but once you're a couple of weeks into September, the kitchen gets very hot and systems break down. Fitness, competitiveness and talent overpower system.

 

[Golumless]

you're right and you're right to value Pedlar. Finals is about getting players to the contest, winning hard balls and then making good decisions and executing under pressure. Systems help you get there, but once you're a couple of weeks into September, the kitchen gets very hot and systems break down. Fitness, competitiveness and talent overpower system.

The fact we've had multiple dynasty sides counters that, alongside the whole to win a premiership you need to have one of, if not the meanest defense come September which has been a consistent thing in the last 40 odd years of this sport. It's much closer to the opposite. Fitness/talent can get you into finals, but without a finely tuned system, you're a no-hoper come September.

If talent, competitiveness and fitness overpowered systems, GWS would be coming off a dynasty, seeing there was no-one close to them in those regards in the back end of the 2010s.

 

[1970crow]

Dawson was a cheap get ....Rankine better than any other player available at our Draft position

The topic was "all chips in" to get an A-Grader .....those two players are not good comparisons

arguable re rankine, but either way, he's a good comparison as we paid 5 for a high end player. Even though he's in a low value role.

 

[1970crow]

We're contenting in '25 though. Having Dawson break out as a top-tier midfielder forces our hand in that regard. Equally, there is no guarantee you get the guy in free agency. Sometimes it is a matter of striking whilst the iron is hot.

Equally, who gives a flying * about a potential 250 gamer when you have an elite midfielder. For every Josh Rachele there is a Chayce Jones lurking in the first round, or worse a Jordan Gallucci. That's the kind of logic that sees you never trade for a big fish.

but my point is that we have that elite mid in 2025, as a free agent. So we get him for 2025 plus we have whatever we get with the trade capital that we didn't use on him. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[Scorpus]

Push this years pick into next year and use it to move up the order to get Draper and then take Welsh as f/s.

In a low value draft what sort of pick would we get next year? Our current pick may only be worth a late first next year. That's if we can even find someone willing to take it.

If we get a player requesting a trade to us though it basically forces the other club to accept compensation from what we have. Brisbane would be tossing up a late first rounder as band 1 FA compensation in 2024, versus whatever we offer this year.

 

[1970crow]

tI know where you are coming from but likewise, next year, why couldn't we bring our 2025 1st into next years draft if we wanted to get that extra 1st round kid? we know Welsh and the younger Michalanney are F/S for us next year AND there would also be nothing stopping us going after a FA next year as well..why not work the oracle to have it all

happy to do that, where I'm not happy is that we spend it all on McCluggage who we could get for no draft capital in 2025. If Hugh was in year 2 of a 5 year deal, it'd be different, but he's 1 year from FA, which means whatever we pay for him needs to return dividend in only 2024. It's a hell of a lot to pay for a single year.

 

[Scorpus]

How much club resources do you want devoted to it?
What success rate do you look for, one in 5, one in 10, one in 20, what if you're not even getting one in say 30, is there a cut off where you assign it to the too hard basket and instead look at other options??

Are there examples of clubs going down this path and still not having any success?

Are there examples of clubs not going down this path and having success?

The club should be devoting as many resources as possible improving our list which includes attracting players here

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The fact we've had multiple dynasty sides counters that, alongside the whole to win a premiership you need to have one of, if not the meanest defense come September which has been a consistent thing in the last 40 odd years of this sport. It's much closer to the opposite. Fitness/talent can get you into finals, but without a finely tuned system, you're a no-hoper come September.

If talent, competitiveness and fitness overpowered systems, GWS would be coming off a dynasty, seeing there was no-one close to them in those regards in the back end of the 2010s.

The reference being made was in relation to Finals games ......more contest winning players ....outside players normally ineffective UNLESS the momentum is with us (Sholl types)

Don't confuse the narrative with having a handful of "Star" players versus "role" players .....the last qtr of the BRIS / CARL game was about individuals winning 1:1 contests ...making the right decision ...having composure
It wasn't about system in that qtr ....and that's what wins more Finals ...of course you have exceptions, but we're talking in the main

 

[Crow till I die]

happy to do that, where I'm not happy is that we spend it all on McCluggage who we could get for no draft capital in 2025. If Hugh was in year 2 of a 5 year deal, it'd be different, but he's 1 year from FA, which means whatever we pay for him needs to return dividend in only 2024. It's a hell of a lot to pay for a single year.

Maybe the wider question is..does it have to be Hugh McLuggage? = it could be Tom Green or Fin Callaghan or Matteus Phillipou or someone else..I am casting the net far and wide.

Edit..go all in this year to maybe shake one loose and then next year still go after McLuggage so you might get 2 topline mids - 1 this year then 1 (McLuggage) next year...I don't want to place limits on bringing in elite mids if there is any chance of getting them....this year and next

 

[Scorpus]

It's 1 year, you're foregoing a career from Dawson, Laird, Rankine or Rachele for just a single year of McCluggage. You'd want to be very confident that McCluggage is going to be the difference between winning a flag or not in 2024. Because you're foregoing an entire career of a high pick to get him in 1 year earlier. If we win the flag it's awesome, but the higher likelihood is that we end up with a worse outcome than the Gibbs trade.

I'm only suggesting it because this draft is shit. Our choices could come down to key defenders, rucks, flankers or Tasmanians that will leave after four years. None of those options are good value.

We're not going to get good value trading it into 2024 because everyone else also knows this draft is shitty

So why not hand it over for a gun player, the type we have never been able to trade in to the club? Get the deal done before Victorian teams get their offers together in his FA year. Get it done before Brisbane re-sign him. Sacrifice the key defender we'd draft this year for the guaranteed signature of a gun midfielder.

 

[Golumless]

but my point is that we have that elite mid in 2025, as a free agent. So we get him for 2025 plus we have whatever we get with the trade capital that we didn't use on him. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

It isn't and you whiffed on it.

Ultimately the buying club has no control of the life situations a player finds themselves in, and a year is a long time. They might find a new partner who doesn't want to leave, they might pick up sponsorships/endorsements that makes a move unattractive or the deal they're looking for, they might have family relocate, their team may have just become a big contender etc that changes a scenario from them wanting to move to you, to them being happy to stay. Alternatively, they may get woo'ed by another club because when push came to shove, you weren't serious.

When dealing with bringing in elite talent, you take the path of minimum risk that sees them at the club. If that means paying a 1st, or even 2 1sts a year early, you rip that bandaid off and get the deal done, providing the price is reasonable. You don't risk a Dawson staying at Sydney.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

happy to do that, where I'm not happy is that we spend it all on McCluggage who we could get for no draft capital in 2025. If Hugh was in year 2 of a 5 year deal, it'd be different, but he's 1 year from FA, which means whatever we pay for him needs to return dividend in only 2024. It's a hell of a lot to pay for a single year.

I agree with this POV ....unless you believe the players circumstances may change within the next 12 months

The other point is ....in a team of 22, does one player make that significant difference .....has Dunkley / Taranto made a significant difference to their teams .....Taranto & Hopper leaving GWS hasn't hurt them

I can see a KPP or RUCK making a significant difference though

 

[1990crow]

Justin Reid:

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I'm only suggesting it because this draft is s**t. Our choices could come down to key defenders, rucks, flankers or Tasmanians that will leave after four years. None of those options are good value.

We're not going to get good value trading it into 2024 because everyone else also knows this draft is shitty

So why not hand it over for a gun player, the type we have never been able to trade in to the club? Get the deal done before Victorian teams get their offers together in his FA year. Get it done before Brisbane re-sign him. Sacrifice the key defender we'd draft this year for the guaranteed signature of a gun midfielder.

Nothing wrong with this thinking either .....both sides of the discussion, having points of merit

 

[Bearded Clam]

Delist/Retire/Trade - McCasey, Hately, Seedsman, McAdam, McPherson, Newchurch, Hamill, Brown
Upgrades Borlase, Parnell, Murray

McCasey Gone
1. Jones
2. Keays
3. Berry
4 Murphy
5. Crouch
Hately - Delisted (if no takers or not drafted sign him as SANFL Captain)
6. Thilthorpe
7. Rachele
8. Sloane
9. Pedlar
Seedsman Retired
10 Dawson
11 Walker
12 Soligo
13 Cook
14 Michalanney
Hamill Retired
15 Taylor
16 Hinge
Brown Delisted
17 Rankine
McAdam Traded
18 Worrell
19 McHenry
20 Schoenberg
21 Nankervis
22 Murray upgraded to senior list
23 Laird
24 Milera
25 Dowling
26 Fogarty
27 Smith
28 Himmelberg
29 Borlase - Added to Senior list
McPherson - Delisted
30 Parnell Added to Senior List
31 Sholl
32 Doedee
33 Bond
34 Butts
Newchurch Delisted
35 O'Brien
36 Gollant
37 Strachan
38 Keane

Cant sign up Hately as sanfl captain..

I think we can only sign our AFL players who have done 10 years at the club to our sanfl team under current rules..