List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread - Pt2 Now With Added Wailing & Gnashing of Teeth

[Lore]

Hello Dockers fans!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

 

[Superkoops]

Isn’t that what happened with the Cerra trade, we all wanted 6+25 with something going back, instead we got 6 and a F3, then Carlton used 25 to poach Motlop, our NGA!

Freo (Ie Walls) wanted F2 they settled for F3 because he was out of contract.

The F3 was used to secure Jordan Clark along with pick 23/24 and save us from giving up 19 that Geelong desperately wanted.

Carlton were never giving up the 25 and made that clear from the beginning as they didn’t want to go into that 2021 draft with no selections in the first and second round.

 

[Paracleet]

Spot on. We are targeting 24 or 26, using 34 and 46. I don’t believe that is where we’ll stop. We can then use 24 or 26 with F2 to try and push up to around 22 rather than toss one of our valuable F1’s.

I actually doubt we will try to move up the first pick a second time. I think we'll be chasing something to move our second pick high enough to ensure we get the mature target we want.

 

[Fyfster]

I’ve got picks 22 & 26 in GoSaints phantom draft for freo, I traded collingwoods future first to North for pick 22 and then 34 & 46 to Gold Coast for 26

Who would you guys be looking at with those picks I know I’m locking in on collard if he’s avaliable

Colingwoods future 1st for 22 ? That would be a major * up.
As they already offered 19 this year , So we say no and accept a future 1st then trade it back for pick 22 .
New levels of Dockery

 

[freo_leo29]

Colingwoods future 1st for 22 ? That would be a major * up.
As they already offered 19 this year , So we say no and accept a future 1st then trade it back for pick 22 .
New levels of Dockery

22 is higher than pies 2023 first (originally 19) to be fair, that'll be about 24


I still wouldn't do it

 

[Taylor]

I think it's entirely going to fall onto how desperate North are to move their three late first round picks into 2024 where they do not have such a glut of currency, spreading out their access to talent and not being locked into picking second round talent when they could get a top ten pick instead the next year.

Granted, they need as much talent as possible but will their selections of #15, #17 and #18 (assuming they push out to roughly #18, #21 and #22) be a better crop of talent than a top fifteen pick next season?

I understand the theory of bulk magic beans and hoping for the beanstalk but each draft isn't the same, there will be players in the range of those 18-22 that can be directly compared to the group projected to be in the 2024 draft.

We probably have two top fifteen picks, potentially three of them to offer. I don't really care if we trade our own future first with St Kilda's F2 for #15 and #18.

The stage is set for a lot of trade drama at the draft itself.

 

[Eski3]

Freo (Ie Walls) wanted F2 they settled for F3 because he was out of contract.

The F3 was used to secure Jordan Clark along with pick 23/24 and save us from giving up 19 that Geelong desperately wanted.

Carlton were never giving up the 25 and made that clear from the beginning as they didn’t want to go into that 2021 draft with no selections in the first and second round.

We then used 19 to draft Matt Johnson. It goes to show a lot of these moves are part of a bigger picture, rather than taken in isolation

 

[Docker82]

We then used 19 to draft Matt Johnson. It goes to show a lot of these moves are part of a bigger picture, rather than taken in isolation

Speaking of this very draft selection we got offered first round picks for it but choose to draft Johnson anyway.

Gold Coast traded a future pick 11 for pick 27 to get Sharp (yes that looks a mistake now).

It's not the number - it's the player available. If there's say 21/22 selections done and we think there's a player that's better than what we'll get next year we do the trade imo.

 

[WilloTree]

I've gotta say in all these hypothetical trades I do hate the idea of valuing Collingwood's future first as pick 17/18.

This time last year it was inconceivable that Geelong's future first would be anything less than 17/18. It ended up being pick 8

Totally agree.

Melbourne did very well taking the risk. I remember Dees fans throwing themselves out of windows at the prospect of 2 picks in the teens for Jackson.

They made out like bandits.

Giants/Collingwood trade was the gold star example though.

 

[Fyfster]

22 is higher than pies 2023 first (originally 19) to be fair, that'll be about 24


I still wouldn't do it

What if they slide in 24? Only way is down

 

[freo_leo29]

What if they slide in 24? Only way is down

Yeah I wanna keep it for that reason


But the point still stands that 22 will be higher than the pies 19(24)

 

[wakojako]

Sounds like JUH is going to stay with the Dogs. Sydney is going to make us pay for L Mac as they don't have a replacement.

 

[Joao]

Sounds like JUH is going to stay with the Dogs. Sydney is going to make us pay for L Mac as they don't have a replacement.

Maybe in salary, but they'd be asking for the world in picks no matter what else was happening.

 

[Taylor]

If they pay Tabs enough we can send them the free agency compensation pick we get for him to them.

 

[nurries]

Sounds like JUH is going to stay with the Dogs. Sydney is going to make us pay for L Mac as they don't have a replacement.

Probably his manager told him to say that to boost his price at Sydney

 

[Superkoops]

Yeah I wanna keep it for that reason


But the point still stands that 22 will be higher than the pies 19(24)

I think posters don’t understand that it is the starting pick 17, and that is a first round pick. When he said in the phantom draft I traded for pick 22 that is after all bids. We would only do this if a player we rated around say 12-16 had slid in the draft and available at pick 22.

The 22 started at 17 we pull the trigger because a player Walls rated much higher is still on the board.

I have a feeling North will package up a few of these picks for a top 10 anyway. GWS and Geelong have picks 7 and 8 for sale. They will then go to WC with offer of 2 and 8 for pick 1. Geelong for example reportedly only want to take two picks and have 8 and 25. 8 will become 10 and 25 around 30.

They may feel a deal of 8,25 > 15,17 gives them two picks in their preferred range (some futures involved to even things out). Or alternatively Geelong May want three picks now and trade 8 for two picks in the teens.

I feel we will prefer to use all out cards except the F1’s. That being 34, 46, 60,64, F2, F3 etc. to get ourselves two picks under 40 and preferably one under 30.

According to articles we are one club interested in pick 24 or 26 that GCS hold.

 

[wakojako]

Probably his manager told him to say that to boost his price at Sydney

JUH said the following:
“I love the Dogs and they've obviously looked after me since I was 15,” Ugle-Hagan told Channel Seven.

“I've always wanted to give back to the club.

“We've got such a good opportunity to win a couple of flags together.

Doesn't make Liam look that great does it.

 

[Taylor]

JUH said the following:
“I love the Dogs and they've obviously looked after me since I was 15,” Ugle-Hagan told Channel Seven.

“I've always wanted to give back to the club.

“We've got such a good opportunity to win a couple of flags together.

Doesn't make Liam look that great does it.

And if he doesn't sign an extension after saying that, how does the play look?

 

[wakojako]

And if he doesn't sign an extension after saying that, how does the play look?

He has explicitly stated he wants to stay at the club for those reasons. We have never received that level of verbal commitment from the likes of Henry/Lobb/Acres etc. My point is he wants to repay the club as they helped him since he was a child. Meanwhile Liam wants to get his rocks off interstate while dressed in a Gucci garbage bag.

 

[Spirit Level]

He has explicitly stated he wants to stay at the club for those reasons. We have never received that level of verbal commitment from the likes of Henry/Lobb/Acres etc. My point is he wants to repay the club as they helped him since he was a child. Meanwhile Liam wants to get his rocks off interstate while dressed in a Gucci garbage bag.

Starting to think he's messaged a few too many taken girls in WA and needed to get out before someone knocked him out

 

[Dockernut]

Still reckon Sydney are going to come haaaaaaarrrrrdd at JUH. Hope they do. The Doggies’ embarassment of riches in tall stocks courtesy of F/S and NGA concessions (like JUH) is bullshit compared to what we cop from the AFL.

 

[Taylor]

He has explicitly stated he wants to stay at the club for those reasons. We have never received that level of verbal commitment from the likes of Henry/Lobb/Acres etc. My point is he wants to repay the club as they helped him since he was a child. Meanwhile Liam wants to get his rocks off interstate while dressed in a Gucci garbage bag.

And actions are infinitely more valuable than words, so what if he says all that but won't sign the contract offer from the Dogs?

I think it's worse if a player talks up how much they want to stay and then don't.

 

[Ge3ks]

Still reckon Sydney are going to come haaaaaaarrrrrdd at JUH

...and end up going home with Lobb.

 

[Dockeroo]

Logan McDonald is an interesting case study in terms of his value in a trade.
It’s hard to say what he would be worth right now if we had traded in 2023 for him.
The fact he was a pick 4 three years ago, a key position player and has shown some promising signs without ever setting the world alight, means that the residual effect of him having been selected at pick 4 would be still in play and we would have had to pay a “high draft pick tax” on him in 2023.

For 2024 my thoughts would be that the high draft pick tax will be substantially diminished. After 4 years in the system, clubs would expect to see exposed form at afl Level over approx 50 games as a much greater contributory factor to his value than his original draft position 4 years earlier. Notwithstanding the fact that he’s a key forward that usually takes longer to develop.

So - if he has another so so year in 2024, I actually think we could get him cheaper than we could have in 2023. The fact he will be OOC is another factor in our favour.

If however he has a significantly improved year, and kicks say, 45 goals or more, we will have to pay up in draft capital.
I’m ok with that though as we will be buying a more proven asset that we would have done this year.
For me - there is a substantial risk he is not a top quality AFL key forward and for a price of two R1 picks - that what i would expect.

Happy we held fire on him until 2024 for that reason.

 

[malpaso]

Starting to think he's messaged a few too many taken girls in WA and needed to get out before someone knocked him out

Lol, 'taken' girls flashing their wares on the socials...

 

[malpaso]

I'd trade all F1 picks next year to get Daniel Curtin..