List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Taylor]

I would argue that Melbourne extended their painful period by shipping off all there mature bodies far too soon and if they didn't have a flag to show for it there'd be zero discussion about the validity of that pathway.

I realise that's not what was being suggested but it's the reverse position.

 

[Joao]

Talk of trading tabs with a year to run is crazy. He’s not worth anything on the market, and for us he should be cheap backup for amiss provided we can get him relatively fit again.

dockeroo is right though - highly unlikely to be less than 6 changes, and 1 of those will be a trade that we might not want.

it is even possible we would consider trading Darcy for a forward / ruck so that dogga can be a ruck/forward.

I don't think anybody suggests trading him to maximise our returns, it would be to give him a shot at a flag/being a B22 player at another club.

 

[Docker82]

I think there are many factors that go into it. West Coast's list profile was ****ed and anyone could see that, Nic Nat was 32, one of about a dozen blokes about to retire and was in the middle of a 14 week layoff with a knee injury when he signed for 2.

Nobody batted an eyelid when a 33 year old Pendlebury signed a 2 year deal, cos he was fit and playing good footy and Collingwood weren't about to fall off a cliff.

Fyfe has been very injury prone but is back in the team and contributing. He clearly has a role to play as a leader and is one of 2 players on the list who has played over 200 games. He's 31, a 2 year deal isn't out of the question given his position and our list profile

I think the bigger issue at West Coast is that Barrass, Allen and maybe Ryan are the only players under 28 that are anything better than average.

I mean there’s a few good kids and few guys that are best 22 in most sides (but no better than that) but they aren’t enough to make them a decent team atm.

That’s basically seven years (2014-2020) and recruiting two, maybe three A Graders through the draft. That’s grim reading for them.

 

[Joao]

I think the bigger issue at West Coast is that Barrass, Allen and maybe Ryan are the only players under 28 that are anything better than average.

I mean there’s a few good kids and few guys that are best 22 in most sides (but no better than that) but they aren’t enough to make them a decent team atm.

Some of their supporters still haven't realised how bad this problem is. They think they are a couple of drafts away from pushing for the 8.

Even if they have nailed their last two drafts, most of those blokes won't be ready to do heavy lifting for 3-5 years.

 

[Taylor]

WC should be looking to extend their young players now then filling up with some mature bodies to shield them if they want to be competitive. Buy the players who will be there for five years plus, offer two to three years to those who will be there while a draftee takes their spot. Think buying players like Jordan Clark

6

Jordan Clark

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.5

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.2

3star

K

10.4

4star

HB

1.8

2star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.4

4star

long term, Travis Colyer

33

Travis Colyer

Age

34

Ht

173cm

Wt

74kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.8

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.6

4star

D

9.5

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

2.8

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

16.8

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.0

1star

short term.

 

[Docker82]

There is Zero chance of there only being 4 list changes from the 2023 playing. It simply doesn’t happen to any club at AFL level in the modern era to have such a small number of players turned over. Poster get attached to fringe players all the time on here and yet by the end of trade week most of those guys are delisted or traded on. There will be at least 7 players gone from the 2023 playing list by 2024. Probably more TBH.

It really depends imo. Teams have made as few as four changes before.

ATM though North’s 2nd, North’s 3rd, Carlton’s 3rd and North’s 4th are picks I expect us to use. That’s four list changes already and they all have to come from the senior list. Add to the fact that Treacy and Banfield will almost certainly be upgraded and it’s six. Granted upgrading rookies also creates space on the rookie list so delisting and rookie listing players becomes an option.

I’m saying all this without having a single clue what we do in trade week. If players come in it’s more space we need to make on the senior list. If we package up picks to move up the draft order we may need to make less changes than above.

All in all I expect it to be 5-6 changes to the list minimum but more if we are overly involved in trade week.

Also think that making minimal list changes for multiple years is a good way to end up like West Coast eventually, even if that appears some way off atm.

 

[Dockeroo]

What can be learned from west coast is that WA based players start to break down due to injury a lot earlier than Melbourne based players.
People like shuey and Yeo were the same as Serong and Brayshaw are now, but back in 2015.
We are already seeing it with Fyfey the last couple of years. That attritional, hard at it, gamestyle is not sustainable for most WA players into their mid 30s.
Comparisons with Pendlebury are well off - firstly he’s a guy who played on skill and poise as opposed to bullocking though contests and is more comparable to Mundy than anyone else. Also he leaves Melbourne 5 times a year.
These tackle machine types like Andy will find it hard to sustain that gamestyle for 300 games from Perth. It’s not an issue yet as none of our young elite talent is 8 years in the system and needing to be paid heavily as free agents.
It probably becomes an issue in 2025 when Andy needs to sign his (next) FA contract. Do you commit for 6-7 years like all the top mids seems to be nowadays in melb clubs?

 

[Eski3]

WC should be looking to extend their young players now then filling up with some mature bodies to shield them if they want to be competitive. Buy the players who will be there for five years plus, offer two to three years to those who will be there while a draftee takes their spot. Think buying players like Jordan Clark long term, Travis Colyer short term.

The problem they have is that they need good mature bodies, not list cloggers. Good mature bodies cost draft capital, which they can't afford to trade away cos they've got about 4 good players under the age of 21 on their list.

Almost all their mature aged mids and big bodies are list cloggers, which they either also need to delist (and get pumped) or play every week (and continue to get pumped)

 

[mightymouse75]

Benning would be another definite you'd think. Henry and Sturt would be likely to want a trade in my opinion. Perhaps Will Brodie too even though he is contracted.

Benning hasn't done anything.
Henry and Sturt will stay for unders.
Maybe Sturt delisted ?

 

[mattis117]

It really depends imo. Teams have made as few as four changes before.

ATM though North’s 2nd, North’s 3rd, Carlton’s 3rd and North’s 4th are picks I expect us to use. That’s four list changes already and they all have to come from the senior list. Add to the fact that Treacy and Banfield will almost certainly be upgraded and it’s six. Granted upgrading rookies also creates space on the rookie list so delisting and rookie listing players becomes an option.

I’m saying all this without having a single clue what we do in trade week. If players come in it’s more space we need to make on the senior list. If we package up picks to move up the draft order we may need to make less changes than above.

All in all I expect it to be 5-6 changes to the list minimum but more if we are overly involved in trade week.

Also think that making minimal list changes for multiple years is a good way to end up like West Coast eventually, even if that appears some way off atm.

There's a low likelihood we get through trade week and come out the other end with those four picks. Things will be exchanged.

 

[Docker82]

There's a low likelihood we get through trade week and come out the other end with those four picks. Things will be exchanged.

Absolutely, the fact those four picks are already not aligned to our natural draft position is already evidence on the fact picks are likely to move.

Our recent history suggests we’ll use four picks. I expect we use any 2nd/3rd rounder we may end up with tbh. If it’s a 4th rounder then it probably depends on how many picks we’ve had before that selection.

Having said all that if there’s minimal outs from a trade perspective this is probably the year we can think about taking less than four selections.

 

[heypenny]

Unless there's a dramatic turn of events, Hamling and Wilson are both gone at the end of the year. Colyer and Benning the other definites. And I'm sorry to say but I think Sturt is probably gone too.

It sucks about Henry as we won't get much for him, but he's likely on his way for fresh opportunity. And finally, I wouldn't be surprised if Keuk is off the list too (they'll probably leave it to the very end). That's 7 changes. 4 picks in the draft. 2 in the rookie list, and 1 spot left open till next preseason.

It's ruthless, but Hamling, Wilson, Sturt, Colyer, Benning, Henry and Keuk haven't added value to our team this year (so far). This is a complete contrast to last season when we lost Lobb, Mundy, Logue, Acres, Meek, Tucker who all contributed to our team at various points in the 2022 season.

 

[JammoMonty]

Sturt will get another year extension

 

[Joao]

I don't get the Wilson is gone rhetoric on here. JL has mentioned him by name multiple times this year for his application at Peel and our defensive depth.

I don't think he is a lock, but I do think he is a good chance of another year.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

You

I don't get the Wilson is gone rhetoric on here. JL has mentioned him by name multiple times this year for his application at Peel and our defensive depth.

I don't think he is a lock, but I do think he is a good chance of another year.

i see it as Wilson, Wagner and Worner fighting for 1 or 2 spots as both are playing their best footy at Pee playing a running HB role. I’d be prioritising Worner then Wilson then Wagner personally, even if Wagner might be contracted another year

 

[Joao]

You

i see it as Wilson, Wagner and Worner fighting for 1 or 2 spots as both are playing their best footy at Pee playing a running HB role. I’d be prioritising Worner then Wilson then Wagner personally, even if Wagner might be contracted another year

Maybe, but think of the squad optics if JL keeps banging on about how well Wilson is doing and his reward is delisting. I just don't think you can do it unless his standards drop off.

 

[purplerunsdeep2]

Unless there's a dramatic turn of events, Hamling and Wilson are both gone at the end of the year. Colyer and Benning the other definites. And I'm sorry to say but I think Sturt is probably gone too.

It sucks about Henry as we won't get much for him, but he's likely on his way for fresh opportunity. And finally, I wouldn't be surprised if Keuk is off the list too (they'll probably leave it to the very end). That's 7 changes. 4 picks in the draft. 2 in the rookie list, and 1 spot left open till next preseason.

It's ruthless, but Hamling, Wilson, Sturt, Colyer, Benning, Henry and Keuk haven't added value to our team this year (so far). This is a complete contrast to last season when we lost Lobb, Mundy, Logue, Acres, Meek, Tucker who all contributed to our team at various points in the 2022 season.

Def ruthless

I can see the following the following scenarios

colyer (delist or rookie)
Benning (delist)
Kuek (rookie or 1 year extension)
Hamling (rookie)
Sturt (delist, rookie or trade)
Henry (trade)
Wilson (rookie or 1 year extension)


I like hamling as key position depth with Davies and Draper still developing

I also like Wilson as I have very little faith in Wagner

I’m not sure why we need 5 rucks on the list if we extend Darcy’s contract. Make the tough call and delist one, maybe two of Benning, Knobel, Reidy

That’s 7 adjustments to the list, freeing up those 3-4 picks to go to the draft with

I can see us taking 3 to the draft, using the trade period to bundle up whatever picks we have to get as high as possible


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[pK75]

I am really struggling with recruiting Wagner when we all ready had Wilson and Worner playing basically the same role (and doing it better) it’s kind of the same with Emmitt when we have Sturt, if we lose either of Wilson, Wagner or Sturt simply because they are out of contract this year, I’d be pretty disappointed.

 

[s_wd6]

I really think you all need to let go of Sturt. He looked good in his debut, but hasn't shown anything more than 2 mins of good footy since.

 

[pK75]

I really think you all need to let go of Sturt. He looked good in his debut, but hasn't shown anything more than 2 mins of good footy since.

He’s showing a lot more than Emmett or Corbett at Peel, hence he’s actually played a couple of games at AFL level this year.
It’s not that I can’t let go, it’s that he’s legit the next best we have in that role yet could be delisted purely because the other two have longer contracts. Same as Wilson and Worner vs Wagner. Wilson clearly the best of the 3 and Worner the youngest and showing he is developing nicely but one or both could go because Wagner has an extra year.

 

[s_wd6]

He’s showing a lot more than Emmett or Corbett at Peel, hence he’s actually played a couple of games at AFL level this year.
It’s not that I can’t let go, it’s that he’s legit the next best we have in that role yet could be delisted purely because the other two have longer contracts. Same as Wilson and Worner vs Wagner. Wilson clearly the best of the 3 and Worner the youngest and showing he is developing nicely but one or both could go because Wagner has an extra year.

I thought Corbett did more as sub in his one game this year than Sturt has done in his games. And I don’t think the comparisons with Emmett are fair because one is in his 5th year in an AFL environment and the other is in his 1st.

I don’t think worner should be pencilled in as a defender. He needs to move to the wing because that’s his best chance of getting a game. I also think Wilson deserves another year on an AFL list but unfortunately for him we have a lot of depth in that area. And he’s also not the type of player that we will miss if he got delisted. Same as Duman and Watson when they got .

 

[trentjac]

Henry will surely be gone by seasons end? It’s hard to see where his next AFL game is coming from unless there big injury issues and the best we will offer (if at all) is a one year extension on base wages of $110k plus match fees, or thereabouts.
If someone like Melbourne offered him a 2 year deal he will be crazy not to take it. Probably for an F3 pick at best - maybe even an F4.

Straight swap Henry for Dow. Carlton wanted him draft night so why not.

 

[Big Flappy]

Straight swap Henry for Dow. Carlton wanted him draft night so why not.

Why would we want Dow?

 

[Dockeroo]

Of course it’s a ruthless industry. You simply have to regenerate your list every year in the AFL to stay afloat. All fringe players are at risk in a club like freo. The opportunity cost of keeping players that are highly unlikely to be anything more than break glass in case of emergency types on your list can really hurt a club several years down the track.
Factor in that TAS will stuff up the draft for about 4 years from 2026-2029, and you really don’t want to be sitting here in 4 or 5 years time saying, shit - we should have taken more than 3 picks in the 2023 and 2024 national draft. If there’s time to have low list turnover - it’s when Tassie are getting established. Between now and the we need as much talent as possible to be stockpiled.

 

[blue shark]

I really think you all need to let go of Sturt. He looked good in his debut, but hasn't shown anything more than 2 mins of good footy since.

The reality is that Banfield is the better player. Sturt has skills but he doesn’t have the eye of the tiger.
You need players with Go, or end up looking like Carlton.