List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Blue1980]

Cunningham, marchbank, fogarty, dow, , Honey, ed curnow, obrien
Martin is lucky he is contracted to 2024
Try to Trade: Mcgovern, Fisher, De konig
At least 10 players or 25% of the list without
A) Trading a star for picks
B) considering Carrol or Kemp because we don't know if they can play.

We should know more about Carroll and kemp by seasons end one way or another

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

So with Marchy and Cunners now back into skills training, should we offer Ed an early retirement package to free up a list spot prior to the mid season draft next month?

 

[Accidental genius]

Will drag it here

There are enough players on our list to move on, without actually having to trade

A 1st round this year and a full book next year

Then a number of OOC and FA that have those attributes

If we decide to trade a player, for overs, so be it

can you give us a summary of what you would do if the decision making was up to you this coming off season?

1. who would you delist and why

2. what type of player would you try and bring in

 

[goreds]

So with Marchy and Cunners now back into skills training, should we offer Ed an early retirement package to free up a list spot prior to the mid season draft next month?

Why? So we can draft another list clogger??

 

[Accidental genius]

So with Marchy and Cunners now back into skills training, should we offer Ed an early retirement package to free up a list spot prior to the mid season draft next month?

Ed can still be useful as depth …keep in vfl and cover fir afl when too many injuries For the remainder of the 2023 season then retire.

weve crossed our fingers for Marchy and cunners long enough…see how they go this time round …if injured again before mid season just make the call on one or both

 

[Arr0w]

can you give us a summary of what you would do if the decision making was up to you this coming off season?

1. who would you delist and why

2. what type of player would you try and bring in

I have before, see if I can find it

 

[Coona Blues]

It's actually not an abomination at all.
It is entirely how the system is designed now. Fringe players trade hands for minimal returns.

Fringe? Both played every game for opposition teams. The point of the post you have pulled one line from was we have more what you are calling fringe players not getting opportunity who will potentially go the same way.

Some may want to treat players like a piece of meat, but there is a significant mutual obligation. The club has done poorly on their part in recent times. I am usually glass half full, but I don’t want another coaching iteration to cost us more viable players on their way out.

Vossy needs to take a long hard look at the structures and himself. Yes, the game starts at the contest, but he is not even winning that, while our connection is almost non existent the second an opposition dials up the pressure gauge. The boys have no confidence in their own skills, let alone those of their mates.

I despise watching a game and screaming at the screen for a player to move the ball, particularly when there is a straight forward target directly ahead. They would rather prop and fart then move it 20m sideways or back after giving the oppo 30 seconds to cover all forward angles. My 6yo hit the roof twice in the game, jumping when I yelled. She is not used to me doing that, but such is the frustration.

The season is far from over, but I fear the stubborn reluctance to explore option two or three is going to obliterate another season and a handful of players who should have long careers at the level in the process. We are running a boys club, Crippa’s mate Fish and Charlie’s brother should not be there with our balance. At very least Ed puts in the hard yards, so has my respect as a player.

I hate dissing any player dramatically, but I am so over Fisher “cheating” his way to 100 games. He has had a bloody role tailored for him, playing as a second wing/high half forward who has his prime role of picking up handball receives dancing a bit and then moving on a too often ineffective disposal. Multiple times we exited D50 needing options. His effort was to stand stationery beside his man, waiting to get a cheap stat after someone else did the hard yards. There are plenty worse players in the team, but it is hard to find a consistently blatant passenger. He refused to embrace a small forward role, that to me removed him from relevance. He is not a mid, he doesn’t have the desire to put his body on the line to be effective consistently. He has a contract covering the next three years.

I hate ranting, but I would much prefer Setterfield and even Stocker who didn’t fit in with the vibe if the team. Selfish Stocker, maybe, or perhaps disheartened by being handed a less than suitable but part. I do not know the dynamics of the chicken and egg discussion. Did he fail to commit first, or was he not committed to. (For the record, I have had both Setterfield and Stocker in Fantasy team since the get go, as I was 100% confident they would perform admirably given suitable roles.) I hate losing viable top team players. I always have an eye to the future.

 

[Stamos]

Fringe? Both played every game for opposition teams. The point of the post you have pulled one line from was we have more what you are calling fringe players not getting opportunity who will potentially go the same way.

Some may want to treat players like a piece of meat, but there is a significant mutual obligation. The club has done poorly on their part in recent times. I am usually glass half full, but I don’t want another coaching iteration to cost us more viable players on their way out.

They were absolutely fringe players for us.
I pulled 1 line from your post, because that was the line I wanted to address. It is not an abomination that fringe players move clubs for very little. That is how the system now works.

We got Acres who was a clear best 18 player in a team that won a final for a F3 pick.

The mutual obligation is we traded Setterfield to where he wanted to go, and let Stocker become a DFA.

It sucks, but that's the way of the (AFL) world now.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

So with Marchy and Cunners now back into skills training, should we offer Ed an early retirement package to free up a list spot prior to the mid season draft next month?

No, we should move them all on.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Ed can still be useful as depth …keep in vfl and cover fir afl when too many injuries For the remainder of the 2023 season then retire.

weve crossed our fingers for Marchy and cunners long enough…see how they go this time round …if injured again before mid season just make the call on one or both

Didnt Cuningham last half a VFL game then pick up a calf injury?

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

I am as triggered as most on here, examining the list. There are some obvious LONG TERM flaws which need to be systematically addressed.

We have a minuscule draft hand next year, we are not righting the ship. Development and opportunity for our younger players becomes paramount. We cannot afford a version of Brisbane’s “go home four (or was it 5)”. If we allow Kemp and Carroll to walk it will be an enormous fail. Dow, I question. He is easy to dismiss, but a couple of games I watched over the off season showed some ultra exiting cameos. I would joke to see some evidence one way or the other. It does feel very hypocritical to dismiss. Him while giving our “guns” a pass when not running defensively.

I like, even love some aspects of our list management, while others astound me. The number of fringe/rookie players given two year contracts is astounding. Fisher, is a role player contracted until the end of 2025, when he becomes a RFA if he has fallen out of favour. We seem to have a policy of handing out long term contracts, presumably at some sort of discount. The game is changing rapidly. (Today’s news is tomorrow’s fish and chip wrapper - apologies to the perplexed young ‘und). We are ‘sweating’ on the end of inflated contracts for Dow and McGovern, with a couple more a concern going forward.

We cannot knee jerk here, and Voss’s stubbornness is a concern that a fire sale may be a thing in the nit so distant future. We lost our depth Setterfield and Stocker for SFA, that was an abomination. I do not want Kemp, Carroll and Dow to follow. I don’t want us to overpay for TDK when Pitto is clearly our number one ruck when fit. If we decide to move past Martin, then we must delist him. No use having dead wood around the group if attitudes are sun par. If he is focussed, by all means let him fight for his spot. (I know his contract hurts, but it is great seeing the investment of Williams around the group)

We need a shrink for Harry and a couple of others. H has the potential to be Hawkins with “wheels”. I have resisted the questions on Russell, but perhaps I am as stubborn as Vossy. Harry, Youngy, Kemp, TDK and some of our smaller types are all sub standard for core strength. Fair to say modern strength and conditioning is a bit of a w**k fest. Some are happy to enlist tried and true methods, while others spend a lifetime studying and experimenting. Starting to think AR is a bit of a theorist using our group for his own research. Hope I am wrong. I have never questioned his credentials, but so many “professionals” today are seduced by innovation. We want innovation with our coaches and stability from our conditioners.

 

[sweethoney]

So with Marchy and Cunners now back into skills training, should we offer Ed an early retirement package to free up a list spot prior to the mid season draft next month?

I think they’ve just changed the rules on that. I heard something on the radio the other day

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Fringe? Both played every game for opposition teams. The point of the post you have pulled one line from was we have more what you are calling fringe players not getting opportunity who will potentially go the same way.

Some may want to treat players like a piece of meat, but there is a significant mutual obligation. The club has done poorly on their part in recent times. I am usually glass half full, but I don’t want another coaching iteration to cost us more viable players on their way out.

Vossy needs to take a long hard look at the structures and himself. Yes, the game starts at the contest, but he is not even winning that, while our connection is almost non existent the second an opposition dials up the pressure gauge. The boys have no confidence in their own skills, let alone those of their mates.

I despise watching a game and screaming at the screen for a player to move the ball, particularly when there is a straight forward target directly ahead. They would rather prop and fart then move it 20m sideways or back after giving the oppo 30 seconds to cover all forward angles. My 6yo hit the roof twice in the game, jumping when I yelled. She is not used to me doing that, but such is the frustration.

The season is far from over, but I fear the stubborn reluctance to explore option two or three is going to obliterate another season and a handful of players who should have long careers at the level in the process. We are running a boys club, Crippa’s mate Fish and Charlie’s brother should not be there with our balance. At very least Ed puts in the hard yards, so has my respect as a player.

I hate dissing any player dramatically, but I am so over Fisher “cheating” his way to 100 games. He has had a bloody role tailored for him, playing as a second wing/high half forward who has his prime role of picking up handball receives dancing a bit and then moving on a too often ineffective disposal. Multiple times we exited D50 needing options. His effort was to stand stationery beside his man, waiting to get a cheap stat after someone else did the hard yards. There are plenty worse players in the team, but it is hard to find a consistently blatant passenger. He refused to embrace a small forward role, that to me removed him from relevance. He is not a mid, he doesn’t have the desire to put his body on the line to be effective consistently. He has a contract covering the next three years.

I hate ranting, but I would much prefer Setterfield and even Stocker who didn’t fit in with the vibe if the team. Selfish Stocker, maybe, or perhaps disheartened by being handed a less than suitable but part. I do not know the dynamics of the chicken and egg discussion. Did he fail to commit first, or was he not committed to. (For the record, I have had both Setterfield and Stocker in Fantasy team since the get go, as I was 100% confident they would perform admirably given suitable roles.) I hate losing viable top team players. I always have an eye to the future.

Harsh, but fair.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

So with Marchy and Cunners now back into skills training, should we offer Ed an early retirement package to free up a list spot prior to the mid season draft next month?

This is harsh, but list spots are at a premium. We can perhaps retain one on our spot next season, not both (I would stick with Marchy)

Ed definitely will retire you would assume.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

With our limited cap and an abundant of players not in the golden '23', some may want to look at other opportunities or more $$$ moving forward and may just leave.

We can already suspect;

Ed, Fogarty, Dow, Marchbank, Cunningham, Philp, Honey, Plowman may not be on the list next year.

Throw in TDK with a few huge offers, Sam Durdin could probably play in the 22 of some sides like North/GWS/GC so could be enticed to move on. Don't continue to play Kemp I'm sure someone else will give him a chance.

Then McGov don't think would be too impressed with a lowball deserved offer so could depart, as could Martin, and don't think we'll be looking at elevating Akuei or Mirkov.

That's 14 players right there who could possibly not be in our listed 46 next year.

So whether by design, intent or just from pure stubbornness to keep persisting with the same week in week out we may conceivably have a pretty decent list cull.

Not the player I'd put up for trade. Id transition him to Fullback or CHB. Id do it now. In the VFL play him there the rest of the season. If we can transition Liam Jones, we can do it with this guy.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Hey Forty3 ,I'm curious, in your personal opinion.
Do you believe the majority of players support Voss's gameplan and selection criteria?

I don't want to experience another Brisbane 2013 here.

 

[Jeremias]

Hey Forty3 ,I'm curious, in your personal opinion.
Do you believe the majority of players support Voss's gameplan and selection criteria?

I don't want to experience another Brisbane 2013 here.

We don’t have to go back to Brisbane 2013 to see a group not support its coach.

In fact we don’t even have to look beyond Ikon Park.

 

[jpfalvo]

The over riding inconvenient truth is the 2015-2019 generation have reached their limit. This list at its best is a 7th or 8th side. If the solutions were mono faceted it would be easy to change but they are not.

This is what I would do.
1. Cut the list hard this year for draft picks and some outside run and winning experience. Strongly consider trading out 1 star player for the right deal

2. Must get long term commitment from Sayers and Cook. If they bail end of next year, the conditional optional culture continues.

3. Replace Cripps with a do as I say captain, probably walsh.

4. Make a selection statement by dropping senior players. Maybe only 1. this week due to availability.

5. Rejig the assistant coaching for 2024

Voss has faults but Carlton changing senior coaches has been proven not to be our core issue.

The final point is we supporters need to stop comparing our club to the likes of Richmond 2016 and Stkilda this year. Those sides made finals and evidenced a winning committed culture pre their poor year. Losing is a systemic part of the Carlton Football Club. It will take a greater level of commitment and effort to change than we realise.

Sayers board tenure is up. And really Cook at 70 should be grooming a successor.

Depressing to think the 66game rebuild generation may have peaked at 9th

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[jpfalvo]

We don’t have to go back to Brisbane 2013 to see a group not support its coach.

In fact we don’t even have to look beyond Ikon Park.

I think he is alluding to the talent walk out.

Under Voss, he saw Billy Longer, Sam Docherty, Elliott Yeo, Jared Polec and Patrick Karnezis all walk out

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[Coona Blues]

We don’t have to go back to Brisbane 2013 to see a group not support its coach.

In fact we don’t even have to look beyond Ikon Park.

Think TBW was referencing the “go home five” exodus.

 

[Arr0w]

Sayers board tenure is up. And really Cook at 70 should be grooming a successor.

Depressing to think the 66game rebuild generation may have peaked at 9th

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

Sayers stepping down?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

We don’t have to go back to Brisbane 2013 to see a group not support its coach.

In fact we don’t even have to look beyond Ikon Park.

I wasn't expecting a reply.
Did we have a player exodus at Carlton?

 

[The Bighouse]

Hey Forty3 ,I'm curious, in your personal opinion.
Do you believe the majority of players support Voss's gameplan and selection criteria?

I don't want to experience another Brisbane 2013 here.

I reckon there’s prob 25 or so that wouldn’t have an issue with the selection criteria….

Gameplan, that’s whole of the coaching brigade, surely. You’d be hoping they’d be in on it together on improving & big picture on a successful style of play, based on our list and who’s available.

 

[skadoosh]

Just get me a Cameron or Papley please Arr0w. Any goal kicking 3rd tall/small and we turn into a dangerous goal scoring machine…

That's the thing though - you've named 2 AFL players in the entire AFL system. How much luck do you need to land a player of that calibre?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I reckon there’s prob 25 or so that wouldn’t have an issue with the selection criteria….

Gameplan, that’s whole of the coaching brigade, surely. You’d be hoping they’d be in on it together on improving & big picture on a successful style of play, based on our list and who’s available.

Wouldn't the gameplan be what Voss would have sold himself on when presenting his resume when applying for the job?
What other credentials does a potential head coach without previous success have to offer?
I have know idea of the process of applying for the job, but a convincing gameplan would be paramount I would have thought?
The players look genuinely perplexed with their decision making and reluctance to take the game on and play instinctively.