List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[thylacine60]

Recruiting Lemmey is a sign we are not confident in keeping TDK in my opinion..........

 

[NameoftheGame]

So we recruited a key forward who had dropped significantly down the rankings due to a poor 2022 because we thought a ruckman was leaving?

May be a bit oblique but if I thought a ruckman was leaving I would have recruited another young ruckman to do an apprenticeship.

Very wise observation BigFrizz36. 100% spot on

 

[thylacine60]

Very wise observation BigFrizz36. 100% spot on

bf36 is in our leadership group on wisdom and thinking things...........

 

[katmanblue]

It's a fair argument, offensively it's something which worked for us really well. DeKoning playing more a decoy role which is often what the third tall does when there are two really good key targets there as well. Silvagni's record with DeKoning and the two keys in the side is very good, as is our record.

You can say you lose a small forward, that's probably Owies, who Silvagni plays a much similar role as at half forward to. Who's better at it? Owies or Silvagni? Owies gives a bit more tackling and Silvagni more in the air. In the past Silvagni has been very good at ground level play though, tackling, feeding out handballs etc. I think rucking took that away a bit.

We started the season with Silvagni, DeKoning, McKay, Curnow and it worked very well until injuries and DeKoning's form changed that. The thing is we didn't get to see it very often but when we did...

Round 1 - Win over Richmond
Round 2 - Win over WBD
Round 3 - Win over Hawthorn
Round 20 (Silvagni for half the game) - Loss to Adelaide

We won every game that TDK, SOS, McKay and Curnow were in play for the total of that game.

Whether it creates issues or not, this setup was awfully successful and generated wins for us, although it's only a small sample size.

There are ways of dealing with the opposition's attacking defenders. 1. Tactics, you don't allow them to zone off and you do this when the ball is being rushed forward and we had absolutely zero idea about this last season and this was one of the biggest criticisms I had over our coaching. 2. Play heaps of small fast pressure forwards and also do point 1. 3. Make them defend.

I think because of the quality in our midfield and up forward that point 3 may be on the cards for us. Take Geelong this year. They won the premiership with a team that was all about ball winning and hands on the footy and created pressure that way and a forward line that was all about that as well. It defended the forward line by having forwards and ball movement that demanded the defender had to stick tight and defend. Which I think we will have that to a point. What forward can you leave lose and let have a bit more space in our team? None.

I think we could go either way and still be good. Go smaller, play tighter, be all about pressure or go taller, be more about being a scoring threat and make them defend. Same goes for our backline. We could go smaller, be all about run and rebound or go taller and be all about intercepting, pressure in the contest and going fast from the rebound. It all works for us IMO.

The issue you're bringing up is very little about who we had in the team and more about our tactics/coaching. We allowed attacking defenders too much free rope at times. We were cut up by intercept defenders a lot. More about tactics, discipline and lack of voice up forward and more about what our talls were doing with their positioning. I think next season if we tighten up on this and we become more of a scoring threat, make the small defenders defend then we won't have issues here.

The win against Hawthorn is hardly an endorsement. 1pt win when we should have had a percentage booster.

If you recall we couldn't combat their slingshot off halfback after being well ahead at quarter time.

The fact that our fwd line wasn't able to provide enough pressure almost cost us the game.

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[BigFrizz36]

bf36 is in our leadership group on wisdom and thinking things...........

Further proof of the decline of western civilisation to my eye.

 

[katmanblue]

We're not losing out on defensive pressure with SOS

Individually, sure.

But the discussion is regarding the combination of SOS and TDK with H and Charlie.

Given Harry and Charlie wont change except for injury, which combination would have higher/better pressure:

1) SOS, TDK, Motlop/Durdin and Fisher

or

2) SOS/TDK, Durdin, Motlop and Fisher/Martin

To me the 2nd combination is the better option.

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[Benaly28]

Recruiting Lemmey is a sign we are not confident in keeping TDK

Don’t think so.


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[choo]

So we recruited a key forward who had dropped significantly down the rankings due to a poor 2022 because we thought a ruckman was leaving?

May be a bit oblique but if I thought a ruckman was leaving I would have recruited another young ruckman to do an apprenticeship.

Who are you who is so wise in the ways of science?


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[thylacine60]

I see moderator duties in bf36's future. But as always, little romance for me.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Who are you who is so wise in the ways of science?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Similar to the original bassist of the Damned who moved to lead guitar.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

It's been mentioned that Young could go to that forward/ruck role with DeKoning going out and Ben McKay coming in. McKay can play, we know that, if Young played the forward/ruck role well, better than TDK then this makes us better. Put it this way. McKay is a better CHB than Young and if Young is a better forward/Ruck than DeKoning we go up a level.

How do we get it done? McKay is a free agent, North may match it and force his pay up to extreme levels. That means we might be better off doing it via a trade. North get picks, good picks and we get the player on fair salary, not the inflated salary we would definitely get him via free agency. You're probably looking at two first round picks at least for a prime aged high quality CHB like that. So I think free agency would be avoided.

This would probably leave our genuine ruck depth a little thin though. We would need to pick up a mature ruckman as well.

A bit to unpack there, but if TDK chose to leave and we pick up brother Ben, it could be a bit of a 'win' all around.

I like your thinking that Young could be released to play the forward/ruck role if BMac was back in defence, with big Nigel as the back up. The reality though is that McKay is worth more to Norf than he is to Carlton right now, so putting a value on him could vary considerably.

Hypothetically, if we made an bid (around $750-800k over 3 years) which would trigger band 1 compensation for them, they'd be crazy not to take it - ie could end up with picks #1 and #2 in this year's draft, as opposed to a couple of 1st round picks that may well only be picks around #16 to #20 if they chose to match the offer. The question is of course is if we have room in the salary cap at the end of the year to make that kind of offer, and if we value him that highly.

In terms of picking up a mature back up ruckman though, Max Lynch would be the type of player you'd be looking at. He's been pushed further back in the pecking order at Hawthorn with Meek coming in over the trade period, and would only cost somewhere around a 4th round pick.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

The issue with this is that we alrrady have two key forwards. Essentially having TDK and SOS on the ground means we lose a small/med forward.

For mine this was Often due to terrible entries where the opposition had an outnumber and our small were non existent at crumbing the ball on the ground maybe they were getting to high to get back to the fall of the ball ..

 

[bigblueboy]

The issue with this is that we alrrady have two key forwards. Essentially having TDK and SOS on the ground means we lose a small/med forward.

If you recall last season, we were often cut up by opposition half backs who'd wander out of their d50 with zero pressure on them.

So if the TDK/SOS duo isn't scoring and they're costing us going the other way, is it actually viable?

I think it's got to be one or the other.

Couple this with starting Walsh at half forward and blending him into midfield reduces spots for genuine forwards further.

 

[Revenant1965]

This is the way I see it when it comes to TDK and Young discussion
1) I'm not going to worry too much at the beginning of 2023 about what might happen at the end of 2023. I am going to enjoy the year for what it may give
2) I have a lot of confidence in the list management team of the past few years in terms of making list adjustments (eg Saad, Cerra, Hewett, Acres) after building on good foundations in terms of player contract structure.
3) Whilst I love what both Young gives, and potential for Lemmey, as I see it Young came to us because we said we'd play him in defence and not as a ruck or ruck forward, and Lemmey is very young KPD. So I don't see them as possibilities IF TDK were to leave.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Don't look past Dylan Moore, UFA

Would be a great get

Agreed, would be surprised if he flew the Hawks coop though

 

[gbatman]

The win against Hawthorn is hardly an endorsement. 1pt win when we should have had a percentage booster.

If you recall we couldn't combat their slingshot off halfback after being well ahead at quarter time.

The fact that our fwd line wasn't able to provide enough pressure almost cost us the game.

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No doubt part of it, and our inability to combat sides when they went one on one in the middle and made it about pressure as well as a leaky team defence for the early parts of the season. Many issues exposed here, Hawthorn have done that to us for years and years. I think it was more coaching and maturity but who knows, maybe we were a bit tall. Definitely should have been a percentage booster that game. Hawks like all well coached sides of the last 10 years have been good at defending themselves back into games.

We still have things we need to find out about our team. I get the impression we are going to go tall early and see how that goes.

 

[azlou]

I don’t see Dekoning needing to have a breakout first ruck year to justify his place in the team.
Gradual improvement from a solid base is all that is required
I can’t see he him getting more $ from Geelong than us they just won the premiership a lot of bonuses get paid.
Dekoning has a lot of athletic attributes that are beneficial in modern football.
He gets around the ground he has speed and acceleration to get to predetermined places the coaches want.
He takes big marks late in games so at 24 and multiple preseasons he has endurance.
I think his boundary ruck work is very good his agility enables him to work around the bigger rucks
He has a great leap for Centre bounce but that leap takes him out of the play when he lands that can be worked on.
Maybe rather than taps to players he taps forward and runs on eg Natanui
Like all our players they improve 20% when they improve goal kicking Cripps did it Sos did it.
Imagine being a 191cm third tall after Dekoning has kicked 2 goals
I only see upside and a valuable player I feel like last year was his first real year of football after injury’s and development.
I think this year we will see a more confident developed Dekoning not sure Centre square that maybe a few years of

 

[Benaly28]

If some club is willing to pay TDK upwards of $800k for potential then he can go.Yes talls don’t grow on trees but that’s just irresponsible list management.


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[Kreuuuzeurns]

was thinking this the other day (* off, I think sometimes) cyril was mocked for getting it 9 times a game but hoo boy, the results - I'm happy if motts or durds get it only a handful of times if they are managing a couple of goals and other contributions per game...........

Was a shame he wound his career up early. Gun footballer . . Mots and Durdin may only become half the player Cyril was but that’s all we need.

 

[Michael Jezz]

So we recruited a key forward who had dropped significantly down the rankings due to a poor 2022 because we thought a ruckman was leaving?

May be a bit oblique but if I thought a ruckman was leaving I would have recruited another young ruckman to do an apprenticeship.

Lemmey went back to West Adelaide and played the last three games of the Under 18s season in defence with the odd stint in the ruck.

He might end up a fwd ruck.

 

[Jeremias]

We have a list spot open now with the Williams news.

Wonder if we add someone now or carry the vacancy through to the mid season draft.

I suspect we’ll go the latter. It’s hugely unfortunate news but we have plenty who can play off half back.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Not that he is under any obligation but I wonder if the club talks to a guy like Williams at some point about taking a paycut. At the end of this year he will have played 21 games in 3 seasons while earning approx 2.5m dollars.

I remember Kouta did it a few years ago when he was injured for alot of his mega deal.

I personally dont think its an unreasonable conversation to have if put in the right context.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Williams > North for peanuts
Mckay as FA to trigger band 1 for North
2 for one deal for North to make the best of a bad situation.

Thank god we picked up Cowan, kids gonna be seeing a lot of game time is my guess and I have big hopes for him. Huge talent

 

[marcmurphy3]

We have a list spot open now with the Williams news.

Wonder if we add someone now or carry the vacancy through to the mid season draft.

I suspect we’ll go the latter. It’s hugely unfortunate news but we have plenty who can play off half back.

I reckon we wait. We dont have anyone training with us except our VFL boys and our list needs will be largely dependant on how certain guys like Walsh and Boyd come back on injury.

 

[Styxx]

Not confident on Philp either considering he might be out a while as well so it could be two spots potentially.

Won't hurt to sniff around the next few weeks and see if there is someone we can get now, knowing our luck we'll lose another one before the mid season draft anyway.