List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[The Bighouse]

are people actually aware markov is now officially a pie? are they? well?

Going by a conversation I had this morning with another club supporter, that’s a no. “Didn’t you sign Markov?”

 

[katmanblue]

I have something in the memory banks about Frederick being involved in some of Ladhams’ off field escapades a couple of years back. On face value would be a decent prospect though.

Still a fan of rewarding the bloke who has been very prominent in our seconds (Carlton and Northern Blues previously), pretty much outperforming our AFL listed defenders consistently. Cincotta is deserving.

Interesting that St Kilda (SOS) have grabbed unheralded tall forward Anthony Caminiti who starred in their match sim at his first outing. He is/was attached to our reserves program. We had (technically still have until signed) a “hidden gem” seemingly. Admittedly we do not have much of a career path for a young tall forward with Charlie and Harry on long term contracts. That is, of course unless that player could potentially be integrated as a pinch hitting ruck (Lemmey)

Austin and co. have been very proactive putting an excellent team of prospects both young and recycled (Ronke, Cahill, Crocker…)

On the other hand Cincotta is already in the vfl side, where he'd be for most of the season.

Getting someone else (like Frederick) in would not only make them available to the AFL side, but they'd also help the vfl side.

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[CJMB]

VFL mids are going to be spoon fed if it’s Mirkov and HOK tag-teaming in the ruck.

 

[Coona Blues]

On the other hand Cincotta is already in the vfl side, where he'd be for most of the season.

Getting someone else (like Frederick) in would not only make them available to the AFL side, but they'd also help the vfl side.

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Totally understand the logic. However, I like rewarding a deserving seconds player with an opportunity that arises. We have a good quality list in the twos. The nature of the beast is that when we have a healthy list of developing and depth players available, some very deserving VFL listed boys miss out.

It is a catch 22. Yes can add a decent player to the mix, but let’s show that there is a potential path there for our committed boys. The Hayes addition in MSD was excellent, Cincotta is at least as deserving, and yes, he may not necessarily get to play a senior game.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

On the other hand Cincotta is already in the vfl side, where he'd be for most of the season.

Getting someone else (like Frederick) in would not only make them available to the AFL side, but they'd also help the vfl side.

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Gotta admit that I don't know much about Martin Frederick except that he's the twin brother of Michael at Freo, he has two first first names, and has a highlights package that shows he has incredible leg speed.

Had a quick squiz over at the Port forum where there were mixed messages following his delisting.....some saying that he was unlucky to be squeezed out due to having a number of players who play that similar half back role - others say that apart from his leg speed, doesn't have a lot more tricks. There were some media reports at the time suggesting there were 5 clubs interested in him during the trade period even prior to his delisting.

It also may be a bit late to trial him even if we were interested given the deadline - although come to think of it, we did draft O'Keefe after just one training session - and Vossy and Ebert would have first hand knowledge of him. Either way, I'll leave that to Austin and his crew to sort out. I'm tipping they'll all be on overtime this weekend.

 

[Jimmae]

RE: the ruck depth discussion, none of our rucks are contracted beyond 2023.

Can't see Pittonet getting another contract unless he plays 20+ games and genuinely leads the midfield into the finals, but TDK has to step up. If Mirkov kicks on, just get TDK to get lean and play KPF instead.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

RE: the ruck depth discussion, none of our rucks are contracted beyond 2023.

Can't see Pittonet getting another contract unless he plays 20+ games and genuinely leads the midfield into the finals, but TDK has to step up.

Your comment about Pittonet is imo extremely unfair, if arguably a Hot Take that you wouldn't thaw if sent onto the surface of The Sun.

Fully fit and able, Pitto is one of the most astute and hard working tap ruckman in the league..

I really don't want that Thug oaf Sean Darcy from Freo tbh (who broke his leg last season)

I can take or leave TDK, if he wants too much money (which is being reported) happy to cash in on an late 1st round/2nd round pick and wish him all the best.

The days of He-Man like Superhero Ruckmen are pretty much over, blokes like Luke Jackson are Unicorns (and are rarer to find than Hen's Teeth)

Aside from Melbourne 2 years ago, i cannot remember the last time a premiership winning team had an A grade ruckman in their side.

 

[macky99]

Your comment about Pittonet is imo extremely unfair, if arguably a Hot Take that you wouldn't thaw if sent onto the surface of The Sun.

Fully fit and able, Pitto is one of the most astute and hard working tap ruckman in the league..

I really don't want that Thug oaf Sean Darcy from Freo tbh (who broke his leg last season)

I can take or leave TDK, if he wants too much money (which is being reported) happy to cash in on an late 1st round/2nd round pick and wish him all the best.

The days of He-Man like Superhero Ruckmen are pretty much over, blokes like Luke Jackson are Unicorns (and are rarer to find than Hen's Teeth)

Aside from Melbourne 2 years ago, i cannot remember the last time a premiership winning team had an A grade ruckman in their side.

That is ridiculous Elmer re TDK, we have just invested 4years into him, and you want to let him go for a late 1st or early 2nd for another team to prosper.
Again his upside is much greater than Pitto & far less injury prone.

Hope TDK has a breakout season to silence some of the knockers.

 

[CJMB]

Your comment about Pittonet is imo extremely unfair, if arguably a Hot Take that you wouldn't thaw if sent onto the surface of The Sun.

Fully fit and able, Pitto is one of the most astute and hard working tap ruckman in the league..

I really don't want that Thug oaf Sean Darcy from Freo tbh (who broke his leg last season)

I can take or leave TDK, if he wants too much money (which is being reported) happy to cash in on an late 1st round/2nd round pick and wish him all the best.

The days of He-Man like Superhero Ruckmen are pretty much over, blokes like Luke Jackson are Unicorns (and are rarer to find than Hen's Teeth)

Aside from Melbourne 2 years ago, i cannot remember the last time a premiership winning team had an A grade ruckman in their side.

Jim didn’t mention Darcy.

Also doesn’t change that Pittonet’s perceived durability is a bit of a concern.

He’s played 34 games across 3 seasons for us, all as the #1 ruck. TDK has managed 39 in the same period.

He’s out off contract talks because if he’s the guy playing more games as #1 ruck and he shows some development then he’s worth more. He’s not the first player to hold out, we’ve got current players who’ve done similar and then extended.

The argument is probably also that Pitto, good as he is at the stoppage, doesn’t really have as much impact around the ground or in general play. Which is a fair criticism.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

That is ridiculous Elmer re TDK, we have just invested 4years into him, and you want to let him go for a late 1st or early 2nd for another team to prosper.
Again his upside is much greater than Pitto & far less injury prone.

Hope TDK has a breakout season to silence some of the knockers.

I would prefer to keep Tom but not at some of the figures being thrown around in the media and on social media (aka reportedly 750 - 800 K P/A) if he doesn't get a bit more consistency into his game this season

 

[Jeremias]

RE: the ruck depth discussion, none of our rucks are contracted beyond 2023.

Can't see Pittonet getting another contract unless he plays 20+ games and genuinely leads the midfield into the finals, but TDK has to step up. If Mirkov kicks on, just get TDK to get lean and play KPF instead.

Geez, poor Pitto. Seemingly your new whipping boy.

Pittonet was our number 1 last year and is likely to continue in that role in 2023.

He’s not going from that to without a contract in a matter of months, especially considering the uncertainty surrounding his competition.

 

[macky99]

I would prefer to keep Tom but not at some of the figures being thrown around in the media and on social media (aka reportedly 750 - 800 K P/A) if he doesn't get a bit more consistency into his game this season

l would not take any notice of the media.
lf you were TDK'S manager you would be advising him to do the same, wait half a season and assess his true value going forward rather than potential to take that next step.

 

[macky99]

Geez, poor Pitto. Seemingly your new whipping boy.

Pittonet was our number 1 last year and is likely to continue in that role in 2023.

He’s not going from that to without a contract in a matter of months, especially considering the uncertainty surrounding his competition.

ln all fairness he has missed a large chunk of the last two seasons so his durability is questionable, sure TDK was our number one ruck for a large portion of last season.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Geez, poor Pitto. Seemingly your new whipping boy.

Pittonet was our number 1 last year and is likely to continue in that role in 2023.

He’s not going from that to without a contract in a matter of months, especially considering the uncertainty surrounding his competition.

Maybe some of us see Pittonet through a different set of glasses than others (as well as Kennedy, Fisher, Newman etc).

I think that Michael Voss might use the same set of glasses that we do.

 

[Jeremias]

ln all fairness he has missed a large chunk of the last two seasons so his durability is questionable, sure TDK was our number one ruck for a large portion of last season.

He has missed time. It is a concern.

I don’t think that’s why Jim’s not offering him a contract.

TDK was never #1 when Pittonet was fit.

 

[bradfisher14]

If the worst case scenario happens with Gov and Marchy this year, we should take a look at Tom Doedee

12

Tom Doedee

Age

28

Ht

190cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

228.8

4star

D

15.3

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

5.8

3star

M

6.3

5star

T

1.3

2star

MG

228.8

3star

D

19.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

6.6

5star

T

1.4

4star

.

 

[agro]

If the worst case scenario happens with Gov and Marchy this year, we should take a look at Tom Doedee.

Can’t he get on the park either?

 

[thylacine60]

remember when we traded for quality rather than medical back-up? crazy days..........

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

If the worst case scenario happens with Gov and Marchy this year, we should take a look at Tom Doedee.

Would prefer we started to draft and develop our own key players, rather than poach others, though granted Doedee is a qualify player, but also ironically also injury prone (too courageous for his own good)

 

[Beyond Blue]

RE: the ruck depth discussion, none of our rucks are contracted beyond 2023.

Can't see Pittonet getting another contract unless he plays 20+ games and genuinely leads the midfield into the finals, but TDK has to step up. If Mirkov kicks on, just get TDK to get lean and play KPF instead.

I wouldn’t be hanging my hat on TDk turning into a key forward any time soon. He has shown very little up forward both in terms of positioning, leading and goal kicking.

That said I’m actually excited about our rucks this season. Both Pitto and Tdk out of contract at seasons end so they should be setting themselves for big seasons. Also if they can’t play in tandem and the coaches for SOS as a backup then that’ll keep the pressure on whoever is in the side to perform which is great for us.

Also I hope Mirkov can get a full season in the 2s with a view to him playing league next season. Hopefully OKeefe can also develop in the 2s and even learn a bit of forward craft.

 

[Jimmae]

Your comment about Pittonet is imo extremely unfair, if arguably a Hot Take that you wouldn't thaw if sent onto the surface of The Sun.

Fully fit and able, Pitto is one of the most astute and hard working tap ruckman in the league..

I really don't want that Thug oaf Sean Darcy from Freo tbh (who broke his leg last season)

I can take or leave TDK, if he wants too much money (which is being reported) happy to cash in on an late 1st round/2nd round pick and wish him all the best.

The days of He-Man like Superhero Ruckmen are pretty much over, blokes like Luke Jackson are Unicorns (and are rarer to find than Hen's Teeth)

Aside from Melbourne 2 years ago, i cannot remember the last time a premiership winning team had an A grade ruckman in their side.

Geez, poor Pitto. Seemingly your new whipping boy.

Pittonet was our number 1 last year and is likely to continue in that role in 2023.

He’s not going from that to without a contract in a matter of months, especially considering the uncertainty surrounding his competition.

Jim didn’t mention Darcy.

Also doesn’t change that Pittonet’s perceived durability is a bit of a concern.

He’s played 34 games across 3 seasons for us, all as the #1 ruck. TDK has managed 39 in the same period.

He’s out off contract talks because if he’s the guy playing more games as #1 ruck and he shows some development then he’s worth more. He’s not the first player to hold out, we’ve got current players who’ve done similar and then extended.

The argument is probably also that Pitto, good as he is at the stoppage, doesn’t really have as much impact around the ground or in general play. Which is a fair criticism.

You've almost nailed my arguments, but let me make this even clearer:

2020 through to 2022, here's the games tally

Pittonet - 34 AFL, 2 VFL
TDK - 39 AFL, 16 VFL

Over 18 games a season for TDK, versus 12. In the previous years, Pittonet managed 8 (2019), 11 (2018), and 17 (2017, all VFL), at both levels. I can't draw a clearer line than that.

That alone is reason to jettison Pittonet, unless he genuinely turns it around this year. He's not off to a great start.

He has missed time. It is a concern.

I don’t think that’s why Jim’s not offering him a contract.

TDK was never #1 when Pittonet was fit.

That's exactly why: he's perennially injured and as a result is unable to impact enough contests beyond getting the odd decent tap in. If he was able to maintain his fitness for longer, perhaps he'd also be able to cover more ground and to do more inside stoppages too.

TDK should be completely overtaking him this year, and I say this while acknowledging that TDK is still showing he should perhaps be a forward/ruck rather than the other way around. Extremely talented player that we need to stop dicking around because we're gun shy on a few centre bounces.

Pittonet does not stay on the park, and hurts more than he helps. Could not give a shit about 2-5 extra centre clearance wins in a game when we'll only net 2 goals out of them, versus the losses that occur elsehwere, particularly if we play two rucks.

If we're not confident on the three younger options, we move TDK in position or club, and bring in a new senior ruck option. Move on from Pittonet unless he completely reverse the trend.

This is also the logic we should be applying to a lot of other players. We need concrete evidence to demonstrate their lack of appearances will cease.

 

[carlton_99]

That is ridiculous Elmer re TDK, we have just invested 4years into him, and you want to let him go for a late 1st or early 2nd for another team to prosper.
Again his upside is much greater than Pitto & far less injury prone.

Hope TDK has a breakout season to silence some of the knockers.

Isn't he out of contract end of 2023? If so, do we have much negotiating power - doubt we will re-draft him in the national draft. Hoping he re-signs of course but just pondering worst case scenarios as we do on a Sat night

 

[thylacine60]

does a giant thug of a ruckman ramming his knee into the pcl of the opposition ruckman really mean the latter has durability issues?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

We are still not sure whether TDK is a number one ruck and even if he is he might be out the door.
Mirkov is a long shot to make it.
O’keefe has been at the club for roughly 24 hours and is years away from having enough size to compete at the level.


Pitto gets a contract. Nothing surer.

 

[COBALT BLUE]

If the worst case scenario happens with Gov and Marchy this year, we should take a look at Tom Doedee.

AM hoping Gov can get 15 games in this season...15-18.........hopefully finally he has learned how to better manage himself injury wise
am hopeful still on Gov possibly a 50/50