List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Red Bull]

This would be a reasonable argument if players like Hewett were doing the defensive stuff.

Yes, i believe the defensive stuff is/was a big part of Hewett’s brief …

 

[Stamos]

Yes, i believe the defensive stuff is/was a big part of Hewett’s brief …

And he's not doing it adequately.
So why not try Dow who can at least win the clearance?

 

[Red Bull]

And he's not doing it adequately.
So why not try Dow who can at least win the clearance?

Indeed …

 

[Blue__Balls]

Enough of this Dow nonsense.
It doesn’t matter what he offers to the balance of the midfield.
How many times do you need to be told what he doesn’t …

It's not nonsense. We're clearly willing to carry players who don't offer much of anything defensively. One of them is our captain. Ergo, the barrier for Dow isn't limited to doing the defensive stuff more, if he can do the offensive stuff better than some others then he should enter the conversation for selection.

We don't want 5 mids that are defensively limited/suspect at the moment (some on form, not reputation). If we need to select 3, though, then which three is a perfectly reasonable discussion.

 

[Red Bull]

It's not nonsense. We're clearly willing to carry players who don't offer much of anything defensively. One of them is our captain. Ergo, the barrier for Dow isn't limited to doing the defensive stuff more, if he can do the offensive stuff better than some others then he should enter the conversation for selection.

We don't want 5 mids that are defensively limited/suspect at the moment (some on form, not reputation). If we need to select 3, though, then which three is a perfectly reasonable discussion.

Of course it’s not nonsense and i couldn’t agree more

 

[Arr0w]

This would be a reasonable argument if players like Hewett were doing the defensive stuff.

It's not even close

Hewett pressure is still on par with last year, 20 acts, half of which are in defensive half

2022 Dow went at 8 and 3, small sample size

2021, 12 and 6, enough of a sample size

No where near it by eye or the numbers

I'd rather people just say, he can win a clearance and has more toe over a limited distance, and that's why people want him selected

 

[Stamos]

It's not even close

Hewett pressure is still on par with last year, 20 acts, half of which are in defensive half

2022 Dow went at 8 and 3, small sample size

2021, 12 and 6, enough of a sample size

No where near it by eye or the numbers

I'd rather people just say, he can win a clearance and has more toe over a limited distance, and that's why people want him selected

The defensive acts aren't working though.
We're getting slaughtered by Laird and Dawson, and the North mids the week before.

We've gone from #2 at clearance (+9 points per game) last year to #17th (-8 points). That's obviously from a combination of winning less clearances, but also not being able to stop the opposition.

 

[Arr0w]

The defensive acts aren't working though.
We're getting slaughtered by Laird and Dawson, and the North mids the week before.

We've gone from #2 at clearance (+9 points per game) last year to #17th (-8 points). That's obviously from a combination of winning less clearances, but also not being able to stop the opposition.

Not true

We had a poor result against the Crows, who will beat some good sides, but we were (top 6) limiting opposition scores

But, back to defensive acts, Dow isn't the answer in that areas and actually makes us worse compared to Hewett or the rest of our mids

Let's not use pressure as an argument for Dow's inclusion

 

[Stamos]

Not true

David King's stat from SEN this morning.
I don't know how to check that info.

 

[Stamos]

But, back to defensive acts, Dow isn't the answer in that areas and actually makes us worse compared to Hewett or the rest of our mids

Let's not use pressure as an argument for Dow's inclusion

I'm saying that we're getting killed defensively (in the midfield) anyway, so we may as well go with a player who can help us win clearances.

 

[Arr0w]

David King's stat from SEN this morning.
I don't know how to check that info.

Talking about 1 game, not the season

 

[Stamos]

Talking about 1 game, not the season

He was talking about the season.

 

[Benaly28]

This article.

Sums us up.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Arr0w]

I'm saying that we're getting killed defensively (in the midfield) anyway, so we may as well go with a player who can help us win clearances.

That "could" help us win clearances at the next level. That's a fair reason for wanting him as an in

Not that he will be better defensively than any of our mids

 

[Stamos]

Not that he will be better defensively than any of our mids

I don't think anyone has said that?

 

[Stamos]

Talking about 1 game, not the season

“A couple of mids had a poor night, but I can’t believe the stoppage game. The stoppage game last year was an absolute weapon for them. They were the second best across the season, at +9 points per game,” he added. First 10 weeks of last year they were unbelievable. It was probably closer to 2.5 goals per game. That’s a big advantage – and the territory it gives you saves every other part of your game.

“This year, they’re averaging two less clearances than their opponent week on week, which exposes all the other areas of the game they’re not great at, and they’re 17th at score from clearance differential at -8 points.

“They’re having to play left-handed”: The key statistic that highlights Carlton's issues

Carlton’s biggest strength from 2022 has turned into an enormous weakness this season.

www.sen.com.au

 

[Stamos]

View attachment 1663196

This article.

Sums us up.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

“They’re having to play left-handed”: The key statistic that highlights Carlton's issues

Carlton’s biggest strength from 2022 has turned into an enormous weakness this season.

www.sen.com.au

 

[Arr0w]

“They’re having to play left-handed”: The key statistic that highlights Carlton's issues

Carlton’s biggest strength from 2022 has turned into an enormous weakness this season.

www.sen.com.au

Wasn't debating the decline of our clearances, which i have mentioned, was talking about opposition scores

And Kingy is talking about scores from stoppages, not pure clearances

 

[JustaBattler]

This would be a reasonable argument if players like Hewett were doing the defensive stuff.

Oh please FFS - Hewett is a much better footballer than Dow .

 

[Arr0w]

This would be a reasonable argument if players like Hewett were doing the defensive stuff.

I don't think anyone has said that?

 

[Stamos]

Oh please FFS - Hewett is a much better footballer than Dow .

He hasn't been the last 3 weeks.

 

[Arr0w]

He hasn't been the last 3 weeks.

Dow hasn't been in the side, so the statement is flawed. You can only compare Hewett against players at the same level or games

 

[Stamos]

Not that he will be better defensively than any of our mids

You're misunderstanding the argument.
It's not that Dow would be better defensively than the likes of Hewett. It's that our defensive work in the midfield is already poor, so having Dow in isn't going to make a huge difference defensively.

But that what he brings offensively could have an influence.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Regardless if it is successful or not, we really should try alternatives, not brandish statistics from 2021 and 2022.
All posters are asking for is a block of 3-4 games as an inside mid, without the axe hovering over his head focusing on failure.
The current set up has rarely worked since round 9 or 10 last year.
A small improvement in ball movement through the midfield will equate to a large improvement in our forwards.

 

[Arr0w]

You're misunderstanding the argument.
It's not that Dow would be better defensively than the likes of Hewett. It's that our defensive work in the midfield is already poor, so having Dow in isn't going to make a huge difference defensively.

It will make a difference, we become worse

But that what he brings offensively could have an influence.

People have really lost their balance when it has come to Dow, but it's probably more about, "do well at VFL, replace not so good AFL" This is a weekly occurrence

Hewett, having a poor start to the season, is averaging 3.8 clearances (also spent time off HB), last year 6.6

Dow has never averaged more 2.8 in any season

So, Dow isn't in the same postcode as Hewett, whether it's as an attacking or defensive mid

The only theory is change for the sake of change