List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[sosos]

I was annoyed at the time we let Setterfield and Stocker go for virtually nothing, and I now see them both locked in as top 22, in two top four sides.

I have viewed a ton of people canning Sos recently, but in my opinion, Austin has not handled these two very well.

Not only has he not extracted any value for Stocker, and very little for Setterfield, but in Setterfield's case, he has given a leg up to our arch enemy in a position of need.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I was annoyed at the time we let Setterfield and Stocker go for virtually nothing, and I now see them both locked in as top 22, in two top four sides.

I have viewed a ton of people canning Sos recently, but in my opinion, Austin has not handled these two very well.

Not only has he not extracted any value for Stocker, and very little for Setterfield, but in Setterfield's case, he has given a leg up to our arch enemy in a position of need.

They were worth stuff all and we couldn’t have stopped Setterfield getting to Essendon.
Stocker I find hard to believe that he was delisted because of football ability.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Just read in todays HUN that by arrangement with the Bendigo Pioneers, Harley Reid is going to play a few games with our VFL team. Unfortunately it will be the only chance he will have to ever pull on the famous cfc emblazoned navy blue guernsey. He'll go No.1 in this year's draft.

Just do what Port did with JHF - get in his ear before he's drafted and tell him if he finds himself stuck at a club he hates he can just request a trade to Carlton within 1-2 years

Hell, instead of just playing a few games with the ressies, offer him a chance to board with Crippa, Walsh or Charlie

 

[sosos]

They were worth stuff all and we couldn’t have stopped Setterfield getting to Essendon.
Stocker I find hard to believe that he was delisted because of football ability.

Their performances say they were worth something more than stuff all.

I know Setterfield is not in this category but it just feels like Robinson/Garlett again, letting good players go for nothing.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Their performances say they were worth something more than stuff all.

I know Setterfield is not in this category but it just feels like Robinson/Garlett again, letting good players go for nothing.

We were just unlucky that Setterfield was the worst of a very good bunch who play the same position. Non best 22 players who will be 25 before playing at their next club aren’t going to be worth much.

 

[Red Bull]

Their performances say they were worth something more than stuff all.

I know Setterfield is not in this category but it just feels like Robinson/Garlett again, letting good players go for nothing.

It’s just the way the AFL works sometimes.
We’ve brought in Young Boyd Acres Hewett for virtually nothing and they are all arguably best 22 for us.
Opportunity is everything and i just hope history doesn’t show Dow and Kemp biting us on the arse in years to come …

 

[Broadside]

Just do what Port did with JHF - get in his ear before he's drafted and tell him if he finds himself stuck at a club he hates he can just request a trade to Carlton within 1-2 years

Hell, instead of just playing a few games with the ressies, offer him a chance to board with Crippa, Walsh or Charlie

Bit of Manchurian candidate style brainwashing

 

[jj1978]

I was annoyed at the time we let Setterfield and Stocker go for virtually nothing, and I now see them both locked in as top 22, in two top four sides.

I have viewed a ton of people canning Sos recently, but in my opinion, Austin has not handled these two very well.

Not only has he not extracted any value for Stocker, and very little for Setterfield, but in Setterfield's case, he has given a leg up to our arch enemy in a position of need.

I think it's a little bit of coaches, little bit of list management, little bit of the players themselves all bundled up into a bit of a perfect storm.

List management goes and over recruits certain types (depth or feels we can get someone better), coaches don't know what to do so try to re-skill or just prefer the newer alternative, player jaded or unable to adapt to a different type of role, etc.

I can see letting Setterfield go somewhat (though crazy unders). Stocker does miff me as his fair aggression and strut is something we lack in overall. I heard the rumours that he got noses out of joint, but if I was Cripps I'd have my nose out of joint moreso by the players who put in meek attempts often to lay a tackle or fight through adversity or want to take the hit or tackle for the benefit of the team.

 

[jj1978]

Just do what Port did with JHF - get in his ear before he's drafted and tell him if he finds himself stuck at a club he hates he can just request a trade to Carlton within 1-2 years

Hell, instead of just playing a few games with the ressies, offer him a chance to board with Crippa, Walsh or Charlie

Harley: "Hey Charlie, really wish I could play for the Blues... damn don't wanna end up at the wees and poohs!"
Charlie: "Easy fix!"
Harley: "What's that?"
Charlie: "It's that little thing I like to call refusing a breath test (even though you haven't drunk) and not displaying my P-Plates....."

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

You should know better than to throw stats around without context.

"Dow has never averaged more 2.8 in any season"

Except 2021, when he averaged 2.9.
With 1 game as the unused substitute.
And two games with less than 25% TOG (assuming subbed on late or subbed off early).
Adjust for "complete" games and it was 3.2 per game.

Then we could always go a step further and try to work out how much more time Dow spent at HF or in the forward pocket, compared to Hewett at HB. I can't be arsed, but if you can get away with an unsubstantiated "also spent time off HB" then I feel perfectly comfortable saying that Dow likely spent relatively more time forward.

Could even maybe allow for the fact that Dow went into that season with 42 games to his name. Hewett had 120 games notched by the start of last season.

But hey - let us put all that aside for now. This isn't, and has never been framed as, a discussion around pure statistics. It is about balance. It is about some fans being open to the idea that having a 23yo burst midfielder with a clean hands and a point to prove (not to mention a contract to play for) in the midfield mix might be a good thing. Irrespective of his individual stat sheet, his presence might change how opposition midfields need to set up against us. He might be good for 4+ clearances a game himself, but having him there might help Cripps, Kennedy, Cerra, Walsh, Hewett - whoever else we utilise - get a few more as well.

Now - it might not work. That's a genuine possibility. But geez it would be pretty s**t to find our slow midfield getting picked apart by better sides, have us miss finals, and then look back and wonder if that maligned kid in the ressies could have made something of a difference. Would suck to then delist him, despite him wanting to stay and be part of the club, then have him snapped up for free by a team who are willing to play him as he is and put a few balanced/defensive mids around him.

And on top of that, while we've got senior/experienced mids who are out of form, out of touch, or carrying an injury - it certainly seems like an opportune time to give Dow his run. If it doesn't work, we can bring back a fresh Hewett or Kennedy or Cripps or whoever, and maybe have them in their 6.6 clearance a game form, instead of their 3.2 a game form, for the run to finals.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Hopeful on all.
Binns needs a big body of work for mine. Signs are great, but needs a thorough grounding in a variety of roles. Wing primarily, high half forward, pressure forward, inside mid and possibly half back.

Sure we can argue Dutchy came straight in, but was a need and more ready to go. Binns has many similar traits, but is not quite as instinctive and disposal needs some work. I will say, Binns has been a bloke at junior level to bite off some daring attempts with mixed results. It is a fine line between improving decision making and removing much needed dare. I see him spending the majority of the season developing in the twos. Hollands and Acres have the wings tied up for now, and we have a couple of other more experienced goers coming back soon.

Binns should not be pigeon holed on to a wing just yet. I am sure Dutchy will ultimately end up in the engine room, making some room. We also likely have the Camporeale boys integrating soon enough. We have too many players who are one position or bust. Loving the development of Cottrell “recently” expanding roles, as opposed to LOB who always reverts back to the wing. We need dramatically more flexibility, I reckon Binns can offer some.

Lemmey and O’Keeffe are both excellent prospects, but in fairness, will be vying for the same role. Very hard to see both co-habiting in the same team while Harry and Charlie are in their primes. Hudson is the classic second ruck prospect. Combative and capable, but it would be a stretch to suggest he will become the number one for mine. They more and more tot 205cm. Has a superior conversion rate with his set shots, which is a major plus.

Lemmey at the moment is a talented young try hard. Plenty to work with, but leading patterns need work as does some decision making. Needs to become more instinctive. May well be he is actually better suited up the ground. A couple of cameos rucking and behind the ball have been impressive. Goes from overthinking (imo) to see ball get ball, hit the contest. Plenty to play out, but a hell of a lot to work with. Has time, hate the posters suggesting he is ready to step up, would set him back enormously.

Just quietly, we shouldn’t be in a hurry to replace Pitto. Criminally under rated by some. Has struggled since the PCL, we need to get him fit again. His value around the contest is under sold. TDK is the highlights reel who is not developing as hoped. So want him to step up.

The Camporeale boys will be playing their first season with Carlton in 2025 - if they're good enough and if they nominate Carlton. Will be great to keep an eye on them but I don't think they should factor into list management plans just yet.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I think it's a little bit of coaches, little bit of list management, little bit of the players themselves all bundled up into a bit of a perfect storm.

List management goes and over recruits certain types (depth or feels we can get someone better), coaches don't know what to do so try to re-skill or just prefer the newer alternative, player jaded or unable to adapt to a different type of role, etc.

I can see letting Setterfield go somewhat (though crazy unders). Stocker does miff me as his fair aggression and strut is something we lack in overall. I heard the rumours that he got noses out of joint, but if I was Cripps I'd have my nose out of joint moreso by the players who put in meek attempts often to lay a tackle or fight through adversity or want to take the hit or tackle for the benefit of the team.

Stocker clearly annoyed someone at the club (most likely Vossy) enough that they wanted to send a message and couldn't wait to dump him.

Setterfield was being asked to play wing. He's not a winger. We traded him for roughly equivalent to what we paid for Acres who is a winger.

Same for Samo. Yeah we got ripped on that deal but in turn we ripped off the dogs for Young.

It's just the way it goes for non star players.

 

[Bletch]

Just read in todays HUN that by arrangement with the Bendigo Pioneers, Harley Reid Koutoufides is going to play a few games with our VFL team. Unfortunately it will be the only chance he will have to ever pull on the famous cfc emblazoned navy blue guernsey. He'll go No.1 in this year's draft.

Anyone know how to fake a paternity test?

 

[Jeremias]

Just read in todays HUN that by arrangement with the Bendigo Pioneers, Harley Reid is going to play a few games with our VFL team. Unfortunately it will be the only chance he will have to ever pull on the famous cfc emblazoned navy blue guernsey. He'll go No.1 in this year's draft.

Strange one. I wonder why we’re doing it.

The Camporeale boys will be playing their first season with Carlton in 2025 - if they're good enough and if they nominate Carlton. Will be great to keep an eye on them but I don't think they should factor into list management plans just yet.

Of course they should.

List managers and recruiters don’t just work year on year.

All will have an eye on that draft class and beyond.

With future pick trading it’s entirely relevant and in the planning.

I was annoyed at the time we let Setterfield and Stocker go for virtually nothing, and I now see them both locked in as top 22, in two top four sides.

I have viewed a ton of people canning Sos recently, but in my opinion, Austin has not handled these two very well.

Not only has he not extracted any value for Stocker, and very little for Setterfield, but in Setterfield's case, he has given a leg up to our arch enemy in a position of need.

Not much Austin can do about it.

Setterfield wasn’t in our best side and wouldn’t be if he was still here.

Good luck to him but he had no value.

Stocker is a different story but again it’s hardly Austin’s fault.

Clearly issues there with the club and whilst I’d love to know the full story, we likely never will.

Swings and roundabouts. With fringe and depth players it happens to every club. It’s not as though we haven’t benefited from similar cases.

 

[Sector 7G]

I was annoyed at the time we let Setterfield and Stocker go for virtually nothing, and I now see them both locked in as top 22, in two top four sides.

I have viewed a ton of people canning Sos recently, but in my opinion, Austin has not handled these two very well.

Not only has he not extracted any value for Stocker, and very little for Setterfield, but in Setterfield's case, he has given a leg up to our arch enemy in a position of need.

How is Austin supposed to extract value for Stocker when no one wanted him during the trade period. Austin clearly had Stocker last on the depth chart for HBFs and probably thought he could pick up a better HBF during the mid year draft in Cincotta if he needed another.

 

[Revenant1995]

The Camporeale boys will be playing their first season with Carlton in 2025 - if they're good enough and if they nominate Carlton. Will be great to keep an eye on them but I don't think they should factor into list management plans just yet.

I'd think the Campo twins are very much a part of LM plans if the club knows they will nominate CFC. Talent watchers would have an idea of their value, we'd be looking at who else (and what sort of players) we need (and if Lucas is as good has been suggested, there's another winger in the mix we wouldn't need to draft, plus Ben), and draft picks may be changed this year as a result. And,with something like 17 players OOC at end of year, I expect some changes...

 

[Blue__Balls]

Strange one. I wonder why we’re doing it.

So our reserves at least get a look at a competent half forward utility?

 

[Blue By Blood]

I was annoyed at the time we let Setterfield and Stocker go for virtually nothing, and I now see them both locked in as top 22, in two top four sides.

I have viewed a ton of people canning Sos recently, but in my opinion, Austin has not handled these two very well.

Not only has he not extracted any value for Stocker, and very little for Setterfield, but in Setterfield's case, he has given a leg up to our arch enemy in a position of need.

Austin isn’t the issue here. Voss/selection committee are. We tanked both players value by either not playing them or playing them out of position. They were both rightfully able to seek trades to further their careers and that’s not on Austin. They simply held no trade value being out of contract and with lack of form.

Setterfield on the wing when he’s clearly a tall inside mid was honestly baffling. I get we are stocked for inside mids but they could be rotated in game. Cerra, Hewett, Walsh all capable of half back. Cripps, Kennedy capable of time up forward. That’s what peeves me the most. We simply rotate players mid game far less than most other teams.

It’s tracking the same for Dow and Kemp at the end of the year. We’ll lose them for nothing and that will hamper our ability to make the tough calls on guys like Marchy, Cunningham, Martin etc. Then the same issues will hit next year. Results in less depth, more players being gifted games that aren’t deserved, and also we’ll have to hang onto the injury prone guys. It has a ripple effect.

 

[Arr0w]

Way I look at it, if we have lost players from the list that didn't get picked up by other clubs (Parks, Newnes, Williamson, etc), to losing depth players that play a role elsewhere (Stocker, Setterfield, Levi, etc), then we are improving as a list

Increased number of wins last year, and on track to do the same this year

 

[Blue By Blood]

Way I look at it, if we have lost players from the list that didn't get picked up by other clubs (Parks, Newnes, Williamson, etc), to losing depth players that play a role elsewhere (Stocker, Setterfield, Levi, etc), then we are improving as a list

Increased number of wins last year, and on track to do the same this year

I’m interested in your take on how we handle the injury prone guys this year if we do end up losing Dow and Kemp for very little. What do you think we will do there? Feel like it’s one of our biggest list challenges. As much as I love Marchbank, Cuningham, Martin etc, I don’t think we can carry them on the list anymore as it keeps putting us behind the eight ball from the start of the year.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

So how good are these campo kids

 

[thylacine60]

just hoping all the posters who are jettisoning the blokes who can't get on the park, are prepared for the strong possibility at least one or possibly more will get it together and flourish at another club.........I imagine that possibility is gonna be met with the same supportive commentary as they were flung out of the place.....

 

[thylacine60]

So how good are these campo kids

so good they had to share the skills between 2 of em........

 

[Arr0w]

I’m interested in your take on how we handle the injury prone guys this year if we do end up losing Dow and Kemp for very little. What do you think we will do there? Feel like it’s one of our biggest list challenges. As much as I love Marchbank, Cuningham, Martin etc, I don’t think we can carry them on the list anymore as it keeps putting us behind the eight ball from the start of the year.

Have touched on this over the last 2 off seasons

Will we lose types like Fogarty and the other end of the scale like Ed types.

Think Dow will look for opportunities elsewhere, but don't think he is a starting 3-4 mid in any side, so that struggle will continue elsewhere

Think we retain Kemp based on spots opening up

So, grouping injury prone players in types, I would move on the following

1 of Gov, Marchbank
2 of Cuners, Martin, Philp

Honey might survive another year

So list departures at a minimum

Fogarty, Ed, Dow, Plow or Akuei, plus 3 of the injury prone

 

[Arr0w]

So how good are these campo kids

At the moment, very good. One projecting as a late 1st, other a 2nd. Both wing, balanced mid types

But, way too early still