Review 2023 National Draft Review Thread II [McKercher, Z.Duursma, Goad, W.Dawson, Hardeman, Maley]

[justroyal]

Love this info Dr Garibaldi82 !!

Can you give us an insight on Wardlaw and what the club may have done in managing his hamstrings as well as condition them? Often read that hamstring scarring can cause greater risk of reinjury..does his powerful bursts from go to whoa also be a factor.

Lastly, how does a players weight factor into their ability to say run 10km at 5kph.

Lol.

Honestly. Nothing other than wait for it to heal and stop being a 5/10 for pain , do some bullshit activation drills and low loading activities and then start to load it again.
Compare R) v L) strength and see if he is more dominant one one side. And then start adding more weight again.
A players weight is impacted when you’re talking middle to long distance activities. 80kg + players just struggle compared to the majority of elites in that space who are, what, sub 70kg? A lot more energy is required to beat gravity.

1-2 kilometres however, they seem to do well. The weight and ability to add force back into the ground helps them a lot

 

[justroyal]

So one of the more frequent criticisms of Reid seems to be that his tank is pretty average.

I’ve a kinda naive question for recruiters or any sport scientists or medical types here.

How much is the limit of a player’s tank determined by training versus genetics?

Specifically, how probable is it that when a player goes through the draft with elite footy qualities, but without the tank to sustain repeat efforts across four quarters at an AFL level, that this weakness can be fixed through preseasons?

Are we talking “practically guaranteed with the right application”, or just “more likely than not”, or perhaps even less likely?

I guess what I’m getting at is this: how certain can any team be that Reid’s tank will improve to the prerequisite level after he’s spent enough time in a professional environment?

The ability to build someone’s tank is far easier than someone’s explosive speed.

If Reid is explosive now, don’t worry about his tank. It will be easy to develop.

However, if players are already displaying elite traits like speed/endurance or burst. You can bet that is a genetic component and they will continue to excel. They are so young and haven’t had adequate training - and when they do, they’ll just go boom.

What I would do?

Reid this off season would need some 400’s x 15, 1k interval work and a whole bunch of fartleks and he will have that 2k up to scratch in 8-12 weeks

 

[Makeshift Park]

So we should forget about Reid, Biggie & CJ's brother and draft the bloke who just won the Chicago marathon!?

He'd be a Category B pick-up too... We're due one of those actually playing an AFL game.

Lol

Its weird to think of it this way, but in pure salary terms, North Melbourne could probably afford to pay Kelvin Kiptum or Eliud Kipchoge to be our winger in 2024. Either would probably cost about as much as Nick Haynes.

Only slight problem might be that Kiptum weighs 65kg.

Kipchoge only weighs 52kg.

Oh and he's shorter than Nick Watson.

So long as he never gets tackled or has to kick a ball we should be right though.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

Neither here nor there for mine
Just average kick and very one sided

Getting flashbacks of 2022.

 

[ohmygewd]

Lol.

Honestly. Nothing other than wait for it to heal and stop being a 5/10 for pain , do some bullshit activation drills and low loading activities and then start to load it again.
Compare R) v L) strength and see if he is more dominant one one side. And then start adding more weight again.
A players weight is impacted when you’re talking middle to long distance activities. 80kg + players just struggle compared to the majority of elites in that space who are, what, sub 70kg? A lot more energy is required to beat gravity.

1-2 kilometres however, they seem to do well. The weight and ability to add force back into the ground helps them a lot

Which is why someone like N.Riewoldt had to be so impressive to lug around 95+kg, running all day even with repeated sprints or Goldie @100kg rucking 100% of the time...or Mick Nolan playing 4 quarters

 

[Garibaldi82]

Ok, I’m prepared to be shot down, but I recollect from my year 12 PE classes that athletes fall into the fast twitch or slow twitch muscle fibre category and that has a bearing on whether you are a natural runner or not?

Absolutely. This does contribute. However given that these guys have made it this far it can be assumed that they all have a pretty good percentage of both.
Again, there are always outliers. Blicavs for instance

 

[speedy]

If Reid is explosive now, don’t worry about his tank. It will be easy to develop.

Easy? Tell that to Ziebs and cunners.

 

[justroyal]

Which is why someone like N.Riewoldt had to be so impressive to lug around 95+kg, running all day even with repeated sprints or Goldie @100kg rucking 100% of the time...or Mick Nolan playing 4 quarters

100 percent. Now there lung capacity was freakish and genetics was freakish. And it’s actually frustrating Goldstein didn’t flog himself harder when he was in his mid 20’s

 

[JGreezy]

So wouldn’t that be a red flag that he’s come back to the pack?

A little bit, except that he picked back up towards the end of the year and performed adequately in the VFL.

I was saying on here in the middle of the year that Reid had dropped down to the same tier as the other top 4 players.

 

[R00StaR]

Under 18 top 3 & 5 performers in stat categories. Categories include: Kicks, Handballs, Disposals, Marks, Hitouts, Tackles, Contested, Uncontested, Clearance, Inside 50, Rebound 50, Goals (12)

Player - U18	Top 3's	Top 5's
Ryley Sanders	7.0​	9.0​
Colby McKercher	6.0​	8.0​
Caiden Cleary	5.0​	7.0​
Daniel Curtin	2.0​	6.0​
Archie Roberts	1.0​	4.0​
Harley Reid	2.0​	3.0​
Koltyn Tholstrup	2.0​	3.0​
Riley Hardeman	2.0​	3.0​
Arie Schoenmaker	1.0​	3.0​
Nate Caddy	1.0​	2.0​
Connor O'Sullivan	1.0​	2.0​
Harry De Mattia	1.0​	2.0​
Koen Sanchez	0.0​	2.0​
Nick Watson	1.0​	1.0​
Zane Duursma	1.0​	1.0​
Archer Reid	1.0​	1.0​
George Stevens	1.0​	1.0​
Mitch Edwards	1.0​	1.0​
Ollie Murphy	1.0​	1.0​
William Green	1.0​	1.0​

​

As i was saying Sanders head and shoulders above.
We take Sanders and McKercher 2 and 3. Pick 17 and 18 for 8 then get one of O'Sullivan, Curtin, Caddy and best tall with 15.

 

[Garibaldi82]

Lol.

Honestly. Nothing other than wait for it to heal and stop being a 5/10 for pain , do some bullshit activation drills and low loading activities and then start to load it again.
Compare R) v L) strength and see if he is more dominant one one side. And then start adding more weight again.
A players weight is impacted when you’re talking middle to long distance activities. 80kg + players just struggle compared to the majority of elites in that space who are, what, sub 70kg? A lot more energy is required to beat gravity.

1-2 kilometres however, they seem to do well. The weight and ability to add force back into the ground helps them a lot

Solid plan. Should have let Clarko and the gang know last season.
I can't imagine he hasn't done something similar in the past. And look where we are now

 

[brucemac]

So I went back to check Watson's school footy results after it was mentioned on the Rush Hour that he had kicked over 70 goals across all competitions this year.

11 in the Coates league, 15 at the National champs and from what I could find, 27 goals in school footy with 4 games not having any stats listed.

School footy goals breakdown - 5,7,unknown,1,6,5,bye,unknown,unknown,3,unknown.

I wouldn’t overate the standard of APS footy.

 

[Hazey1977]

I do have concerns with his hamstrings. I would say will certainly do them multiple more times. It's just about minimising the severity of them.
He is that reckless and explosive that even if you prepped him the best way possible, he is putting that much rapid stretching and contraction into his strings that they'll have to go eventually. Would be pumped to get 150 games out of him. Just make sure he plays in the September ones. Reckon he'll be a bit like Taylor Adams in how he'll miss multiple games / and be managed.

Next question. Less weight = run better.[emoji23] Significant impact

And what about quad:hammy strength ratios? About 4:1?

I've heard too much focus on quad work leaves the hamstrings unable to cope with their power differences or something like that.

On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[R00StaR]

Ok, I’m prepared to be shot down, but I recollect from my year 12 PE classes that athletes fall into the fast twitch or slow twitch muscle fibre category and that has a bearing on whether you are a natural runner or not?

I remember them saying that is why African Americans dominate in the NBL while the strongest man in the world is generally a man mountain white dude.

 

[speedy]

As i was saying Sanders head and shoulders above.
We take Sanders and McKercher 2 and 3. Pick 17 and 18 for 8 then get one of O'Sullivan, Curtin, Caddy and best tall with 15.

Sanders does look awesome, but the art of scouting talent is projecting what the end product will become.

 

[justroyal]

Solid plan. Should have let Clarko and the gang know last season.
I can't imagine he hasn't done something similar in the past. And look where we are now

This is exactly what clubs do.
What would you have done differently?
You’ve diagnosed his future injury history. Would love to hear it.

 

[R00StaR]

Sanders does look awesome, but the art of scouting talent is projecting what the end product will become.

Yet time and time again players dont improve a great deal in skills, awareness and that one touch ability is even harder.

 

[desie]

100 percent. Now there lung capacity was freakish and genetics was freakish. And it’s actually frustrating Goldstein didn’t flog himself harder when he was in his mid 20’s

I’ve been flogging myself hard since I was a teenager and I’m no fitter.

 

[Garibaldi82]

D

And what about quad:hammy strength ratios? About 4:1?

I've heard too much focus on quad work leaves the hamstrings unable to cope with their power differences or something like that.

On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

What would you have done differently?
You’ve diagnosed his future injury history. Would love to hear it.

I haven't diagnosed it. No one possibly could.
All you can go on is previous history and the demands of the given activity/ sport.
He's had multiple hamstring tears. They will heal but they will always be somewhat compromised. He may very well go years without doing another one. But evidence suggests that he probably will. It's always a bit of a guessing game

 

[speedy]

Yet time and time again players dont improve a great deal in skills, awareness and that one touch ability is even harder.

Or do shit runners turn into elite runners.

 

[justroyal]

And what about quad:hammy strength ratios? About 4:1?

I've heard too much focus on quad work leaves the hamstrings unable to cope with their power differences or something like that.

On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yes - it potentially leaves the hamstrings in a weaker position/ stretched position. But because he is so young. He hasn’t been at the gym smashing leg extension and front squats.

It is largely genetic with him.

What the club should do is look at his

• running mechanics.
• identify if he is apply more force through one side than the other.
• strength test on a force platform.
• get a proper strengthening routine going working on his weaknesses.
• and finally, I’d actually get a sprint coach to work on those <50 meter running drills

 

[krakouers]

I’ve been flogging myself hard since I was a teenager and I’m no fitter.

Working one muscle doesn't count....

 

[The Lone Latic]

Resident Exercise Physiologist here.

Someone's tank is basically called their cardiorespiratory conditioning / or their Vo2 max (ability to utilise oxygen).

This is largely trained. There is an element of genetics involved but realistically if you have the vessel to be able to undertake the necessary loading (or training) then it should be able to be improved quite easily.
Basically, as long as their isn't something getting in the way e.g. poor skeletal structure or someone being so injury prone that they can't achieve lengthy continuity of training, there is no reason why they shouldnt be able to reach very high fitness levels.

Well there goes my excuse for having absolutely rubbish stamina my entire life. Guess I can't blame genetics

 

[The Lone Latic]

So Ziebs and Cunners were lazy f***ers?

Let's be real, under Brad Scott how many truly elite runners did we develop? Sam Gibson came in ready made with a tank he built himself before getting drafted

 

[The Nostradamus]

Sanders does look awesome, but the art of scouting talent is projecting what the end product will become.

Yep and also looking ahead to next draft

If people are impressed by these mids (not including Harley) they imo don’t come close to Finn O’Sullivan, jagga smith and Josh smillie in next years draft

But watto I’d have miles ahead of next years small forwards

Probably likewise Curtin over kpds