List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management discussion

[Warwick]

Are list sizes staying the same this year?

 

[Sproj]

That is fantastic news, he is a good 'un that's for sure.

Our core side is still quite young, bodes well for the next few years.

 

[Elixuh]

Tiger eyes new deal, Roo undecided on 2024, Crow set to sign

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

PAYNE TRAIN GATHERS STEAM​

BRISBANE is in talks to lock away improved defender Jack Payne, with the Lions moving to secure the club's former Academy graduate to a long-term extension.

Payne still has one season to run on the three-year deal he signed in 2021, but it's understood discussions are progressing over a significant extension that will tie him to the Lions for the foreseeable future.

The imposing 23-year-old has become a mainstay in Brisbane's premiership push this season, playing in all but one game and forming a formidable defensive partnership with fellow Lions Academy star Harris Andrews.

Drafted to Brisbane with pick No.54 in 2017, Payne endured an injury-hit start to his AFL career but has since played 44 games across six seasons and has already featured a career-high 17 times in 2023.

His imminent re-signing is set to continue a spree of contract calls for Brisbane recently with the club also announcing extensions for James Madden (2024), Callum Ah Chee (2025), Henry Smith (2026) and Jaspa Fletcher (2026). – Riley Beveridge

My biggest concern with this is that the club might inadvertently offer Jackson Paine the long term deal which wouldn’t be ideal.

 

[M Malice]

Tiger eyes new deal, Roo undecided on 2024, Crow set to sign

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

PAYNE TRAIN GATHERS STEAM​

BRISBANE is in talks to lock away improved defender Jack Payne, with the Lions moving to secure the club's former Academy graduate to a long-term extension.

Payne still has one season to run on the three-year deal he signed in 2021, but it's understood discussions are progressing over a significant extension that will tie him to the Lions for the foreseeable future.

The imposing 23-year-old has become a mainstay in Brisbane's premiership push this season, playing in all but one game and forming a formidable defensive partnership with fellow Lions Academy star Harris Andrews.

Drafted to Brisbane with pick No.54 in 2017, Payne endured an injury-hit start to his AFL career but has since played 44 games across six seasons and has already featured a career-high 17 times in 2023.

His imminent re-signing is set to continue a spree of contract calls for Brisbane recently with the club also announcing extensions for James Madden (2024), Callum Ah Chee (2025), Henry Smith (2026) and Jaspa Fletcher (2026). – Riley Beveridge

I wonder what sort of money Jack will be on for his new contract? It's hard to get elite Key Position players and I have no doubt other clubs would be offering Jack some very good coin... he is not quite elite yet but IMO almost certainly will be.

He will definitely be getting a massive pay rise from what he is on at the moment, I'm thinking we would offer him 5 years at 5-600K per season minimum.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I wonder what sort of money Jack will be on for his new contract? It's hard to get elite Key Position players and I have no doubt other clubs would be offering Jack some very good coin... he is not quite elite yet but IMO almost certainly will be.

He will definitely be getting a massive pay rise from what he is on at the moment, I'm thinking we would offer him 5 years at 5-600K per season minimum.

I'm not sure he's ever going to be close to "elite".

Edit: see later post for disclaimer.

 

[Dalions]

He will definitely be getting a massive pay rise from what he is on at the moment, I'm thinking we would offer him 5 years at 5-600K per season minimum.

His importance to the team this year has pretty much quadrupled and the fact that Harris Andrews has been talked about as a likely AA selection, is down to Payne being able to take the big boys to allow Harris to do what Harris does best.
So on that, he is definitely in for a big pay rise.

 

[M Malice]

I'm not sure he's ever going to be close to "elite".

Jack is only 23 years of age so still a couple of years off his prime years and only this year nailed down a permanent spot in our backline, I see him becoming a similar type of defender to Harris Andrews, elite interceptor, adequate disposal and maybe even a little better than Harris 1 v 1 and more versatile as he has exceptional pace for his size, he has manned up on the likes of Gary Rohan.

 

[p4p1]

I'm not sure he's ever going to be close to "elite".

What does a defender have to do to be considered elite?
He already takes the #1 forward every week and is beating them most weeks. At 23 there is still room for growth.

 

[Sanchez365]

I think elite is generally a term bandied around too much for players. Elite should be top 5 in your position across the AFL or better. Maybe top 10-15 for midfielders.

Our elite players are basically Neale, Cameron (although down on form this year) and maybe Andrews. Payne so far has been excellent with his defensive capabilities and his intercept marking has been good as well. He is not (yet) damaging by foot in the way an Andrews / Moore / McGovern kind of way.

That said, he's a great player whoa trajectory is going in the right direction, and with his physical attributes of strength and speed locking him up on a solid deal is good business. Players with his attributes that can also actually play are rare.

 

[Sanchez365]

Jack is only 23 years of age so still a couple of years off his prime years and only this year nailed down a permanent spot in our backline, I see him becoming a similar type of defender to Harris Andrews, elite interceptor, adequate disposal and maybe even a little better than Harris 1 v 1 and more versatile as he has exceptional pace for his size, he has manned up on the likes of Gary Rohan.

This is seriously underestimating how good Andrews is imo. I'm pretty sure he has the best 1v1 record in the comp.

Unless you just insanely rate Payne which is also fine.

 

[Tom14]

This is seriously underestimating how good Andrews is imo. I'm pretty sure he has the best 1v1 record in the comp.

Unless you just insanely rate Payne which is also fine.

Harris is good but not the top at defending 1v1s. Sam Taylor has lost only 6.8%, Weitering is sub 10 percent too. Harris is around 18 percent.

 

[On the quiet]

I wonder what sort of money Jack will be on for his new contract? It's hard to get elite Key Position players and I have no doubt other clubs would be offering Jack some very good coin... he is not quite elite yet but IMO almost certainly will be.

He will definitely be getting a massive pay rise from what he is on at the moment, I'm thinking we would offer him 5 years at 5-600K per season minimum.

Thinking the same. I am loving the signings and the development of the young players, and whilst Jack is not young, is still relatively inexperienced with AFL games. Injury free with 70 or 80 games under his belt, IMO will be a fine player.

His manager might be considering a three year extension, because as a FA in 2027 and with the new franchise no doubt paying overs to attract established and experienced AFL players, might be beneficial for Jack to sign until 2027.

 

[mpal6]

Thinking the same. I am loving the signings and the development of the young players, and whilst Jack is not young, is still relatively inexperienced with AFL games. Injury free with 70 or 80 games under his belt, IMO will be a fine player.

His manager might be considering a three year extension, because as a FA in 2027 and with the new franchise no doubt paying overs to attract established and experienced AFL players, might be beneficial for Jack to sign until 2027.

Payne comes across as pretty loyal sort of bloke, I think we'll get him for 5+ years.

 

[On the quiet]

Harris is good but not the top at defending 1v1s. Sam Taylor has lost only 6.8%, Weitering is sub 10 percent too. Harris is around 18 percent.

yep Sam Taylor is the benchmark. He was from the same 2017 draft as Payne, and was taken in the high 20's. Has played about 30 more games than Payne, but if Jack who was taken mid 50's can get to Taylor's level we have done well.

 

[On the quiet]

Payne comes across as pretty loyal sort of bloke, I think we'll get him for 5+ years.

I would be fine with that. Suppose we will know in a few weeks, for a whole lot of reasons do not think it will drag out like Dizzy's contract negotiations.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Harris is good but not the top at defending 1v1s. Sam Taylor has lost only 6.8%, Weitering is sub 10 percent too. Harris is around 18 percent.

Those 2 tend to take the number 1 key forward as well which Andrews doesn't always do

 

[Warwick]

I’d stay away from these long term contracts. Signing Payne until 2026/27 would be fine. No need to extend any longer yet.

In most cases 6 and 7 year contracts are fraught with danger and they can come back to hurt you. Loss of motivation, lack of form, injury, list inflexibility - lots of reasons to consider with lengthy deals.

Collingwood found it with Grundy, West Coast with Gaff and a couple of others, Richmond are going to have Taranto and Hopper in their early 30s for the last few years of their deals. Fyfe signed a lucrative 6 year deal expiring this season at the height of his powers - his last 2 years have been virtual write-offs.

It’s why I thought a 6 year deal for Hipwood was silly.

 

[rye]

I’d stay away from these long term contracts. Signing Payne until 2026/27 would be fine. No need to extend any longer yet.

In most cases 6 and 7 year contracts are fraught with danger and they can come back to hurt you. Loss of motivation, lack of form, injury, list inflexibility - lots of reasons to consider with lengthy deals.

Collingwood found it with Grundy, West Coast with Gaff and a couple of others, Richmond are going to have Taranto and Hopper in their early 30s for the last few years of their deals. Fyfe signed a lucrative 6 year deal expiring this season at the height of his powers - his last 2 years have been virtual write-offs.

It’s why I thought a 6 year deal for Hipwood was silly.

Hipwood would not be on much money, do not even think he features in the AFL top 100 paid players. If he can keep up his form from this year over the length of his contract and be a 45-50 goal a year kpf for the next 6 years I think we will have made out like bandits.

The other examples listed were all on big money which severely limited the clubs capacity to juggle the salary and were disastrous when they did not perform in a manner commensurate to their wage


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[The Flying Belgian]

Jack is only 23 years of age so still a couple of years off his prime years and only this year nailed down a permanent spot in our backline, I see him becoming a similar type of defender to Harris Andrews, elite interceptor, adequate disposal and maybe even a little better than Harris 1 v 1 and more versatile as he has exceptional pace for his size, he has manned up on the likes of Gary Rohan.

I have to admit I didn't read the article and in my haste mistakenly though it was referring to Jack Silvagni. Don't ask why, just a bit preoccupied. My apologies. I'm a big fan of Jack.

That said, I think the terms "gun" and "elite" and bandied around a bit too freely for my liking.

 

[dlanod]

yep Sam Taylor is the benchmark. He was from the same 2017 draft as Payne, and was taken in the high 20's. Has played about 30 more games than Payne, but if Jack who was taken mid 50's can get to Taylor's level we have done well.

I too agree that if Payne can get to the level of "generally regarded as at least a top 3 KPD", we have done well.

 

[Elixuh]

I have to admit I didn't read the article and in my haste mistakenly though it was referring to Jack Silvagni. Don't ask why, just a bit preoccupied. My apologies. I'm a big fan of Jack.

That said, I think the terms "gun" and "elite" and bandied around a bit too freely for my liking.

JSOS is a generational talent, take that back

 

[BuntonRules]

I'm not sure he's ever going to be close to "elite".

Edit: see later post for disclaimer.

Beg to differ.

 

[Tom14]

I too agree that if Payne can get to the level of "generally regarded as at least a top 3 KPD", we have done well.

Personally I'd go Moore, Taylor and then Harris in that order. Much as I dislike Sicily he's in there as well but is a bit smaller than you think so really is a third tall.

The Moore/Taylor difference is pure preference. About the only thing I like about Collingwood is how aggressive Moore is and how good he is after he's taken an intercept mark in immediately either finding a team mate or dashing forward and using his athleticism. Taylor has the attribtues to do that as well but tends to play a bit more back shoulder which isn't a criticsm, its just a difference in structure.

Harris being back in the conversation after a couple of downish years is a good thing.

 

[On the quiet]

I’d stay away from these long term contracts. Signing Payne until 2026/27 would be fine. No need to extend any longer yet.

In most cases 6 and 7 year contracts are fraught with danger and they can come back to hurt you. Loss of motivation, lack of form, injury, list inflexibility - lots of reasons to consider with lengthy deals.

Collingwood found it with Grundy, West Coast with Gaff and a couple of others, Richmond are going to have Taranto and Hopper in their early 30s for the last few years of their deals. Fyfe signed a lucrative 6 year deal expiring this season at the height of his powers - his last 2 years have been virtual write-offs.

It’s why I thought a 6 year deal for Hipwood was silly.

Don't disagree about two or three year extension for Payne, but from a Lions perspective we are a bit weak with KPD and even if we took a promising type in one of the next two drafts would likely be a few years before ready to play consistently the key lockdown role at AFL. If we trade for a KPD would very likely pay more than what Lions offer Payne. Jack is a bit unique, can play on some smalls and mid forwards, as well as the oppositions KPF.

Come 2027, probably has 120-140 games (all things being equal) and would likely be a big target for a new franchise, so I can see why some posters think lock him away for four or five years.

 

[BuntonRules]

If anyone is worth a 5-6 year contract, it is Jack Payne,