List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management Thread

[King Corey]

Edit: will update if ppl happy for this to sticky

Ok starting the hit list of names mentioned in any rumour as linked to us for 2023 trade period.

• Mac Andrew
• Hunter Clark
• Zac Fisher
• Sam Flanders
• Mitch Georgiades
• Liam Henry
• Dougal Howard
• Lewis Melican
• Jack Silvagni
• Dylan Stephens
• Adam Tomlinson

 

[Sphynx]

That is phenomenal for a player that hasn’t even played 15 games

Sheezel is #1 for pressure acts for defenders in the AFL.

 

[Its a Process]

Average kick of 22.6m

Turns it over every 4.0 possessions (below average)

Loss % defending of 36% (below average)

Kicking efficiency of 76%. (below average)



The best 5 kicks for medium defenders for the lowest turnover % per kick are Heath Chapman, Jimmy Webster, Nick Daicos, Jordan Ridley and Josh Goater.......

He's at almost 10 disposals per turnover, but his average disposal length is much shorter, meaning chip kicks and small handballs.


Miller Bergman is in the top 10ish at 7.6 disposals per turnover.



The solution is staring us in the face, just get more games into them.....


Whilst we think Goaters kicking can be poor at times, it's actually better than most.

Excellent data analysis and it's funny how we can agree to perceived flaws/strengths despite data often telling us otherwise.

A combination of Goater, Powell, Thomas, Bergman (NM version) might be ample to ultimately replace and improve the current combination of Ziebs and Hall.....

I'd like to see all three of these boys played off half back for the remainder of the year with Bergs to see how they gel.

 

[King Corey]

Zac Fisher would be nice on a wing

Good mates with griff, get in his ear hopefully

 

[outwecome2play]

View attachment 1712338

You are missing the point he is mates with Griff and would come cheap. The fact that he could replace Bailey on the wing is an added bonus.

 

[HBFlanker]

You are missing the point he is mates with Griff and would come cheap. The fact that he could replace Bailey on the wing is an added bonus.

Where is Bailey going?

 

[outwecome2play]

Where is Bailey going?

Nowhere it was a tongue in cheek comment

 

[Sphynx]

Some more advanced stats.

Will Phillips is second only to Patrick Cripps

9

Patrick Cripps

Age

30

Ht

195cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

16.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.8

5star

CL

7.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.9

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

6.3

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

with the lowest turnovers per disposal of any midfielder with 40% higher contested possession ratio.

A region where your disposal efficiency generally drops because of the nature of the disposals you are getting away.

It's why AFL ratings has him the 10th best midfielder u/22 in the league this season.

That list is as follows:

1. Newcombe (22)
2. Anderson (22)
3. Serong (22)
4. Rowell (22)
5. T.Green (22)
6. Martin (22)
7. Gulden (22)
8. Warner (22)
9. Holmes (21)
10. Phillips (21)
11. Day (22)
12. Horne-Francis (20)
13. Ashcroft (19)
14. Wardlaw (19)
15. Callaghan (20)
16. Soligo (20)
17. Ward (20)
18. Bruhn (20)
19. Ginbey (19)
20. Durham (22)


Daicos and Sheezel are categorised as medium defenders.

Daicos (20) would be #2 and Sheezel (19) would be #14

Owens (20) is classified as a forward, but would slot in behind Holmes and ahead of Phillips in #10.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

McCreery, Murphy, Frampton and Johnson are the types of players that look like genius selections when they're playing in a side high on confidence, playing for each other with a number of high quality players clicking around them.

Slot any of those 4 guys into our current side and all 4 would end up being a whipping boy at one point or another. There'd be complaints about why we traded for Port Adelaide and Adelaide shitman Billy Frampton or recruited another half forward in Johnson or McCreery when we so badly need a winger or a distributor off half back.

When we start winning and get a roll on, it'll be amazing how many list clogger types are the envy of other clubs due to them producing a whole lot after we spend very little for them.

Collingwood have a critical mass of players in the 26-30 age group who are consistent week on week.

We have McDonald, Corr, Turner, Howe…..

 

[King Corey]

Collingwood have a critical mass of players in the 26-30 age group who are consistent week on week.

We have McDonald, Corr, Turner, Howe…..

It's a frightening reality that Howe is the best return on investment out of that group.

 

[roos_tt29]

Collingwood have a critical mass of players in the 26-30 age group who are consistent week on week.

We have McDonald, Corr, Turner, Howe…..

This - the reason the Pies turned things around after their down year (with a new coach).

An area we need to build.

It's a frightening reality that Howe is the best return on investment out of that group.

LMac has done some really solid jobs on key opponents this year that have gone under the radar (e.g. Papley).
He kept Greene very quiet until he was thrown into the centre and got going as well.

I stand by the fact that his beard is too short - prime (BnF) LMac had the luscious Viking beard!

 

[Sphynx]

AFL Player ratings top 50 u/22 until the midway of 2023.

Rank	Player	Team	Age	Position
1​	Jai Newcombe	Hawthorn	22​	Midfielder
2​	Nick Daicos	Collingwood	20​	Med Defender
3​	Noah Anderson	Gold Coast	22​	Midfielder
4​	Caleb Serong	Fremantle	22​	Midfielder
5​	Matt Rowell	Gold Coast	22​	Midfielder
6​	Tom Green	Greater Western Sydney	22​	Midfielder
7​	Nic Martin	Essendon	22​	Midfielder
8​	Trey Ruscoe	Collingwood	22​	Med Defender
9​	Errol Gulden	Sydney	21​	Midfielder
10​	Chad Warner	Sydney	22​	Midfielder
11​	Max Holmes	Geelong	21​	Midfielder
12​	Mitch Owens	St Kilda	20​	Key Forward
13​	Eddie Ford	North Melbourne	21​	Med Forward
14​	Luke Jackson	Fremantle	22​	Ruck
15​	Will Phillips	North Melbourne	21​	Midfielder
16​	Will Day	Hawthorn	22​	Midfielder
17​	Jason Horne-Francis	Port Adelaide	20​	Midfielder
18​	Hayden Young	Fremantle	22​	Med Defender
19​	Josh Rachele	Adelaide	20​	Med Forward
20​	Josh Weddle	Hawthorn	19​	Med Defender
21​	Will Ashcroft	Brisbane	19​	Midfielder
22​	Riley Thilthorpe	Adelaide	21​	Key Forward
23​	Lachie Jones	Port Adelaide	21​	Med Defender
24​	Lachie Ash	Greater Western Sydney	22​	Med Defender
25​	Harry Sheezel	North Melbourne	19​	Med Defender
26​	George Wardlaw	North Melbourne	19​	Midfielder
27​	Archie Perkins	Essendon	21​	Med Forward
28​	Trent Rivers	Melbourne	22​	Med Defender
29​	Tyler Brockman	Hawthorn	21​	Med Forward
30​	Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera	St Kilda	20​	Med Defender
31​	Bailey Humphrey	Gold Coast	19​	Mid Forward
32​	Finn Callaghan	Greater Western Sydney	20​	Midfielder
33​	Brodie Kemp	Carlton	22​	Key Defender
34​	Jake Soligo	Adelaide	20​	Midfielder
35​	Judd McVee	Melbourne	20​	Med Defender
36​	Cody Weightman	Western Bulldogs	22​	Med Forward
37​	Josh Worrell	Adelaide	22​	Key Defender
38​	Kysaiah Pickett	Melbourne	22​	Med Forward
39​	Josh Ward	Hawthorn	20​	Midfielder
40​	Mattaes Phillipou	St Kilda	19​	Med Forward
41​	Tanner Bruhn	Geelong	21​	Midfielder
42​	Kaine Baldwin	Essendon	21​	Key Defender
43​	Harvey Harrison	Collingwood	20​	Med Forward
44​	Cam Mackenzie	Hawthorn	19​	Mid Forward
45​	Reuben Ginbey	West Coast	19​	Midfielder
46​	Beau McCreery	Collingwood	22​	Med Forward
47​	Jake Bowey	Melbourne	21​	Med Defender
48​	Sam Durham	Essendon	22​	Midfielder
49​	Jacob van Rooyen	Melbourne	20​	Key Forward
50​	Seamus Mitchell	Hawthorn	21​	Med Defender

 

[HBFlanker]

Think we can comfortably say the following will be delisted:

Turner
Bonar
Hall
Young

 

[King Corey]

Seeing Newcombe up there makes me want to throw up.

 

[krakouers]

I stand by the fact that his beard is too short - prime (BnF) LMac had the luscious Viking beard!

I’d query Sphynx on Beard length vs effective shutdowns

 

[Daniltchenko You Beauty]

AFL Player ratings top 50 u/22 until the midway of 2023.

Rank	Player	Team	Age	Position
1​	Jai Newcombe	Hawthorn	22​	Midfielder
2​	Nick Daicos	Collingwood	20​	Med Defender
3​	Noah Anderson	Gold Coast	22​	Midfielder
4​	Caleb Serong	Fremantle	22​	Midfielder
5​	Matt Rowell	Gold Coast	22​	Midfielder
6​	Tom Green	Greater Western Sydney	22​	Midfielder
7​	Nic Martin	Essendon	22​	Midfielder
8​	Trey Ruscoe	Collingwood	22​	Med Defender
9​	Errol Gulden	Sydney	21​	Midfielder
10​	Chad Warner	Sydney	22​	Midfielder
11​	Max Holmes	Geelong	21​	Midfielder
12​	Mitch Owens	St Kilda	20​	Key Forward
13​	Eddie Ford	North Melbourne	21​	Med Forward
14​	Luke Jackson	Fremantle	22​	Ruck
15​	Will Phillips	North Melbourne	21​	Midfielder
16​	Will Day	Hawthorn	22​	Midfielder
17​	Jason Horne-Francis	Port Adelaide	20​	Midfielder
18​	Hayden Young	Fremantle	22​	Med Defender
19​	Josh Rachele	Adelaide	20​	Med Forward
20​	Josh Weddle	Hawthorn	19​	Med Defender
21​	Will Ashcroft	Brisbane	19​	Midfielder
22​	Riley Thilthorpe	Adelaide	21​	Key Forward
23​	Lachie Jones	Port Adelaide	21​	Med Defender
24​	Lachie Ash	Greater Western Sydney	22​	Med Defender
25​	Harry Sheezel	North Melbourne	19​	Med Defender
26​	George Wardlaw	North Melbourne	19​	Midfielder
27​	Archie Perkins	Essendon	21​	Med Forward
28​	Trent Rivers	Melbourne	22​	Med Defender
29​	Tyler Brockman	Hawthorn	21​	Med Forward
30​	Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera	St Kilda	20​	Med Defender
31​	Bailey Humphrey	Gold Coast	19​	Mid Forward
32​	Finn Callaghan	Greater Western Sydney	20​	Midfielder
33​	Brodie Kemp	Carlton	22​	Key Defender
34​	Jake Soligo	Adelaide	20​	Midfielder
35​	Judd McVee	Melbourne	20​	Med Defender
36​	Cody Weightman	Western Bulldogs	22​	Med Forward
37​	Josh Worrell	Adelaide	22​	Key Defender
38​	Kysaiah Pickett	Melbourne	22​	Med Forward
39​	Josh Ward	Hawthorn	20​	Midfielder
40​	Mattaes Phillipou	St Kilda	19​	Med Forward
41​	Tanner Bruhn	Geelong	21​	Midfielder
42​	Kaine Baldwin	Essendon	21​	Key Defender
43​	Harvey Harrison	Collingwood	20​	Med Forward
44​	Cam Mackenzie	Hawthorn	19​	Mid Forward
45​	Reuben Ginbey	West Coast	19​	Midfielder
46​	Beau McCreery	Collingwood	22​	Med Forward
47​	Jake Bowey	Melbourne	21​	Med Defender
48​	Sam Durham	Essendon	22​	Midfielder
49​	Jacob van Rooyen	Melbourne	20​	Key Forward
50​	Seamus Mitchell	Hawthorn	21​	Med Defender

How do you get access to this Sphynx?

 

[Its a Process]

AFL Player ratings top 50 u/22 until the midway of 2023.

It forms a decent basis for a level of discussion but the list has some fairly obvious flaws - Ruscoe has only played 1 game. Maybe there should be a minimum amount of games qualifier.

Loving the data though, keep it coming!

 

[Sphynx]

It forms a decent basis for a level of discussion but the list has some fairly obvious flaws - Ruscoe has only played 1 game. Maybe there should be a minimum amount of games qualifier.

Loving the data though, keep it coming!

Updated.

4 game minimum.

Rank	Player	Team	Age	Position	Matches	Rating Points_Avg
1​	Jai Newcombe	Hawthorn	22​	Midfielder	13​	15.692​
2​	Nick Daicos	Collingwood	20​	Med Defender	13​	15.554​
3​	Noah Anderson	Gold Coast	22​	Midfielder	12​	15.158​
4​	Caleb Serong	Fremantle	22​	Midfielder	12​	14.883​
5​	Matt Rowell	Gold Coast	22​	Midfielder	12​	14.817​
6​	Tom Green	Greater Western Sydney	22​	Midfielder	12​	14.033​
7​	Nic Martin	Essendon	22​	Midfielder	13​	14​
8​	Errol Gulden	Sydney	21​	Midfielder	12​	13.742​
9​	Chad Warner	Sydney	22​	Midfielder	12​	13.542​
10​	Max Holmes	Geelong	21​	Midfielder	10​	12.99​
11​	Mitch Owens	St Kilda	20​	Key Forward	11​	12.673​
12​	Eddie Ford	North Melbourne	21​	Med Forward	4​	12.175​
13​	Luke Jackson	Fremantle	22​	Ruck	12​	12.042​
14​	Will Phillips	North Melbourne	21​	Midfielder	9​	11.856​
15​	Will Day	Hawthorn	22​	Midfielder	11​	11.809​
16​	Jason Horne-Francis	Port Adelaide	20​	Midfielder	13​	11.677​
17​	Hayden Young	Fremantle	22​	Med Defender	12​	11.317​
18​	Josh Rachele	Adelaide	20​	Med Forward	13​	10.2​
19​	Josh Weddle	Hawthorn	19​	Med Defender	7​	10.186​
20​	Will Ashcroft	Brisbane	19​	Midfielder	12​	10.108​
21​	Riley Thilthorpe	Adelaide	21​	Key Forward	11​	9.982​
22​	Lachie Jones	Port Adelaide	21​	Med Defender	6​	9.867​
23​	Lachie Ash	Greater Western Sydney	22​	Med Defender	13​	9.846​
24​	Harry Sheezel	North Melbourne	19​	Med Defender	13​	9.708​
25​	George Wardlaw	North Melbourne	19​	Midfielder	4​	9.5​
26​	Archie Perkins	Essendon	21​	Med Forward	13​	9.392​
27​	Trent Rivers	Melbourne	22​	Med Defender	13​	9.254​
28​	Tyler Brockman	Hawthorn	21​	Med Forward	10​	8.93​
29​	Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera	St Kilda	20​	Med Defender	12​	8.892​
30​	Bailey Humphrey	Gold Coast	19​	Mid Forward	9​	8.833​
31​	Finn Callaghan	Greater Western Sydney	20​	Midfielder	13​	8.823​
32​	Brodie Kemp	Carlton	22​	Key Defender	5​	8.74​
33​	Jake Soligo	Adelaide	20​	Midfielder	13​	8.738​
34​	Judd McVee	Melbourne	20​	Med Defender	13​	8.731​
35​	Cody Weightman	Western Bulldogs	22​	Med Forward	9​	8.578​
36​	Kysaiah Pickett	Melbourne	22​	Med Forward	11​	8.418​
37​	Josh Ward	Hawthorn	20​	Midfielder	7​	8.371​
38​	Mattaes Phillipou	St Kilda	19​	Med Forward	12​	8.258​
39​	Tanner Bruhn	Geelong	21​	Midfielder	9​	8.244​
40​	Cam Mackenzie	Hawthorn	19​	Mid Forward	11​	8.136​
41​	Reuben Ginbey	West Coast	19​	Midfielder	13​	8.131​
42​	Beau McCreery	Collingwood	22​	Med Forward	13​	8.046​
43​	Jake Bowey	Melbourne	21​	Med Defender	12​	8.017​
44​	Sam Durham	Essendon	22​	Midfielder	12​	8​
45​	Jacob van Rooyen	Melbourne	20​	Key Forward	11​	7.955​
46​	Seamus Mitchell	Hawthorn	21​	Med Defender	8​	7.9​
47​	Luke Pedlar	Adelaide	21​	Med Forward	12​	7.883​
48​	Darcy Wilmot	Brisbane	20​	Midfielder	12​	7.883​
49​	Ben Hobbs	Essendon	20​	Mid Forward	8​	7.812​
50​	Jye Amiss	Fremantle	20​	Key Forward	11​	7.791​

 

[King Corey]

Would people trade Powell and Perez for Serong?

 

[My Left Foote]

Think we can comfortably say the following will be delisted:

Turner
Bonar
Hall
Young

After they're delisted I really hope they form a Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young cover band.

 

[My Left Foote]

Would people trade Powell and Perez for Serong?

I'll fire up the DeLorean.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Would people trade Powell and Perez for Serong?

lol

 

[ToxicMegaPunts]

Would people trade Powell and Perez for Serong?

 

[My Left Foote]

After they're delisted I really hope they form a Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young cover band.

And play their number one hit; Teach Your Children (to handball properly).

 

[King Corey]

Think we can comfortably say the following will be delisted:

Turner
Bonar
Hall
Young

What I think will happen with out of contract players:

Bonar, Aiden
Comben, Charlie
Dawson, Kallan R
Drury, Blake R
Edwards, Jacob R
Free, Hamish R
Goldstein, Todd
Greenwood, Hugh
Hall, Aaron
Howe, Daniel
Mahony, Jack
McKay, Ben
Perez, Flynn
Shiels, Liam
Spicer, Phoenix
Turner, Kayne
Young, Lachie R
Ziebell, Jack

Meaning these are the guys offered 2024+ deals:

Comben, Charlie
Free, Hamish R
Goldstein, Todd (50/50)
Greenwood, Hugh
McKay, Ben (expect he'll reject and take up FA)
Perez, Flynn
Spicer, Phoenix

Those changes would lead to 4x senior spots and 6x rookie spots being opened up.

Assume Shiels will move to an off-field role.

These are predictions, not preferences.

But I think we may repeat 2020 and performer another deep list cut. But this time using picks (probably futures) and FA options to rebalance the list. Reckon this time next year our height issues will have been resolved for quantity, if not quality.

 

[HBFlanker]

What I think will happen with out of contract players:

Bonar, Aiden
Comben, Charlie
Dawson, Kallan R
Drury, Blake R
Edwards, Jacob R
Free, Hamish R
Goldstein, Todd
Greenwood, Hugh
Hall, Aaron
Howe, Daniel
Mahony, Jack
McKay, Ben
Perez, Flynn
Shiels, Liam
Spicer, Phoenix
Turner, Kayne
Young, Lachie R
Ziebell, Jack

Meaning these are the guys offered 2024+ deals:

Comben, Charlie
Free, Hamish R
Goldstein, Todd (50/50)
Greenwood, Hugh
McKay, Ben (expect he'll reject and take up FA)
Perez, Flynn
Spicer, Phoenix

Those changes would lead to 4x senior spots and 6x rookie spots being opened up.

Assume Shiels will move to an off-field role.

These are predictions, not preferences.

But I think we may repeat 2020 and performer another deep list cut. But this time using picks (probably futures) and FA options to rebalance the list. Reckon this time next year our height issues will have been resolved for quantity, if not quality.

I think Cunnington is more likely to depart than Ziebell.

Also think Drury will stay on, however agree with vast majority of this.