Opinion 2024 and Beyond

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Took a crack at our best 22 next year (if we secure Grundy)

Rampe - Melican - Florent
Llyod - McCartin - Blakey
Campbell - Warner - Gulden
Hayward - McLean - Heeney
Papley - McDonald - Amartey
GRUNDY - Mills - Rowbottom
Parker - Wicks - McInerney - Sheldrick
Sub: Fox
Emg: Cunningham, Reid, Stephens, Ladhams

That's a great team before if Sam Reid is somehow fit and I doubt Cunningham is dropped.

Depth is decent as well - Stephens, Francis (was good this year), Clarke, Roberts (will be close to best 22 next year), Ladhams, Corey Warner (I rate him).

If Reid is fit, he's best 22. But huge * on which Reid Sydney gets next year.

Reid on the field probably pushes one of Amartey or McLean to either the pine or Emergency. Unless there's a full time half back swing man role on the cards for him next year

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

If we are to win the flag then we had better fix a few things. Our depth for one. When we get over 25 we then start to say 'oh dear which not ready player do we pick?' A fit Sheldrick will help. Grundy will help. Some more mid depth will help. The trade and draft period will be very important. But we need to develop the young players in the reserves and I am not sure they developed much this year. I mean, even with a side that had lots of listed players we were badly beaten by a stand alone side. That tells me there is something very wrong with the development staff. Players who looked really good, like Hall-Khan, have not improved. Due to our shite fitness we lost several developing players to injury. Two for the remainder of the season, Sheldrick & Sheather. Other players had interrupted seasons, but even when they did play they were not developing as expected. What part of the game plan needs adjusting?

1. Our clearance rate is 12th in the AFL. If this continues we will not even be close to the top eight.
2. Entries; we allow far too many entries into our defensive 50. We rank 12th for opponent entries. This is not sustainable and stinks of a bottom, not a top side.
3. Contested Ball; This was one of our strengths but now we are bottom 4 for contested ball
4. We rank 17th for HO differential/game. We need to improve greatly to give the mids a chance.
5. We rank 15th for opponent clearance differential. We let the ball out far too easily.
6. We turn the ball over in our forward 50 more times than over 12 other sides.
7. Our 4th quarters are the worst in the AFL.

We definitely need to change some things. Some of the coaches need to look hard at what they are doing. Some of the stats will change with personnel changes, like a new ruck. Grundy would help the tap outs. He would also help us get more clearances. Ruck Jesus was shot this year and probably should have retired. But there are other problems in the mids, like positioning and the stupidity of playing a player back leaving us one short at stoppages quite often this season. This has two effects, the mids start to tire because they are playing one down. The opposition win easy clearance and putting the player back as an interceptor is mute because they have easy forward entry due to getting an overlap. The extra becomes a bystander.

Our fitness needs to be far better. The fitness level this year was poor and this was obvious in the fade outs. If the fitness coaches can't deliver get new ones. The same with line coaches.

Our forward strategies were terrible this year. All out talls are in the same place flying for the same ball, which then gets picked off because the opponents have players at ground level. We do not spread out tall forwards enough. They are all going to the same areas. This needs to urgently change.

We use the same set ups on the kick in every time. No changes. The patterns are obvious. This allows opponents to man up and force the long kick. Speaking of long kick, when are Harry & Rampe going to learn how to kick a short pass? Especially, Harry. He just kicks long every time. Lloyd soes it far too often too, especially when he kicks into the forward 50. We bomb far too much, expecting Amartey, McLean or ruck to mark against a wall of opponents. Just shite.

If we are to win a regularly make the eight, let alone win a premiership, we need to delist those players who's skills are not up to AFL level and draft, trade in players who's skills are. Clarke is one such player. we can no longer afford to gift players like Clarke games. To do so defeats the point. We will lose Stephens to North & not playing him in the final was the last straw. We again played a non match fit player, who was shite, instead of a match fit player. This is a serial offence committed by Horse.

As to Horse. Unless he changes his philosophy incredibly, we will never win a premiership with him in charge. He still maintains the bomb and says it is the players fault but if the players do it every game then it is a coaching instruction. The structure and use of player over other players is not changing. Clarke should not have gotten games this year. He was incredibly poor. But he is a trier and Horse loves a trier. How about talent before triers? Might actually win more games. The Slingshot we do is great but needs tweaking to make sure the players don't turn it over so often. Because when we do we almost always get scored against. We needed to take risks later in the season in the ruck but Horse would not. He kept playing Hickey, even when it was obvious he was finished. McAndrew might not be a champion ruck but I think, on his first game performance, he would have given us far more ball than Hickey. When our defence was decimated he had no idea what to do. He panicked. Not only that when he finally played the reserve so called talls, he got the match ups badly wrong. Or the defensive coach did. During that time the backs were a rabble because nobody was taking charge down there. Harry, Fox or Lloydy should have taken charge but didn't. That is definitely Horse's fault. If we continue to play the same style, we will go backward yet again. We bomb far too much and fall into the intercept trap far too often. This is not a player problem it is a coaching problem.

If we do not win a premiership next year, then Horse must go.

Thoughtful post and agree with many of your points.

Game style- of course is partly driven by player availability and their skills and form. By the end of the year we were playing the following players in primarily negating roles -
Mills - playing injured for much of the year but was played as a spare down back too often. Did not hold position when on the wing. An AA mid not playing in position.
Clarke - low skilled player only capable of tagging. Not effective when playing or as sub.
Florent - started the year in fine form and provided lots of run and carry - reduced to a lock down
Melican and Harry - pure negating lock down roles
Wicks - defensive sf.
Hayward - many approved his supposed tagging of interceptors. Ineffective and cost us games when he kicked behinds or OOBs.
Rowbottom - lost the art of winning possessions and was reduced to tackling Oppo mids.

I want a more balanced game style where all are expected to win contests and run both ways.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

If Reid is fit, he's best 22. But huge * on which Reid Sydney gets next year.

Reid on the field probably pushes one of Amartey or McLean to either the pine or Emergency. Unless there's a full time half back swing man role on the cards for him next year

I see no point in rolling the dice on Reid. McLean is an upgrade in all respects.

Reid should never be forgiven for playing in the GF.

 

[Bandicoot]

We'll never make a grand final with these players... lol

We made it to a grand final with them last year.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

I see no point in rolling the dice on Reid. McLean is an upgrade in all respects.

Reid should never be forgiven for playing in the GF.

Well, he's still on hte books. The Swans didn't take him out the back to shoot him.

So unless he breaks down again before the season starts, you can rely on seeing him on the park again in 2024

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Well, he's still on hte books. The Swans didn't take him out the back to shoot him.

So unless he breaks down again before the season starts, you can rely on seeing him on the park again in 2024

He will be in comp for the last position on the list.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Francis has ability but definitely has to shed some kilos and improve his fitness (speed and stamina) by at least 20%. The games I’ve watched him live he has looked a bit slower and less sharp than his teammates and opponents. Needs to have a big off-season getting fitter before pushing for a top 22 spot.

I think you're correct. He needs to sharpen up. But if he does he has the ability to be a good third tall releasing Blakey. I'm optimistic.

 

[Swannie0307]

Everyone’s having a crack so here’s my “optimistic” team for next year…bolds are new or positional changes:

Rampe - McKay - Lloyd
JMac - McCartin - Blakey
Campbell - Warner - Gulden (VC)
Florent - McLean - Wicks
Papley - McDonald - Parker
Grundy - Mills (C) - Heeney
IC: Amartey - Fox - Hayward - Sheldrick/Rowbottom
Sub: Cunningham
Depth: Sheldrick/Rowbottom, Melican, Ladhams, Francis, Reid, Roberts, Buller, Sheather

I think Rowbottom may be ahead of Sheldrick early on but the roles could be reversed throughout the season.
With that lineup, there’s no clear impact sub but Harry could cover many positions.

 

[dosser]

We made it to a grand final with them last year.

That may have been my point

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

We made it to a grand final with them last year.

Certainly but fell short by 15 goals with those players so what do you do?

Guess thats the tough question.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Everyone’s having a crack so here’s my “optimistic” team for next year…bolds are new or positional changes:

Rampe - McKay - Lloyd
JMac - McCartin - Blakey
Campbell - Warner - Gulden (VC)
Florent - McLean - Wicks
Papley - McDonald - Parker
Grundy - Mills (C) - Heeney
IC: Amartey - Fox - Hayward - Sheldrick/Rowbottom
Sub: Cunningham
Depth: Sheldrick/Rowbottom, Melican, Ladhams, Francis, Reid, Roberts, Buller, Sheather

I think Rowbottom may be ahead of Sheldrick early on but the roles could be reversed throughout the season.
With that lineup, there’s no clear impact sub but Harry could cover many positions.

A couple of observations:

IF Sam Reid is fit, he’s best XXII. He ain’t a depth player.

Im struggling to see any real logic in shifting Florent forward.

If Parker moves forward, no way Sheldrick can be left out.

Fox will be lucky to hold his spot if we do get McKay. He was borderline in the latter part of this year.

 

[Swannie0307]

F

A couple of observations:

IF Sam Reid is fit, he’s best XXII. He ain’t a depth player.

Im struggling to see any real logic in shifting Florent forward.

If Parker moves forward, no way Sheldrick can be left out.

Fox will be lucky to hold his spot if we do get McKay. He was borderline in the latter part of this year

Fair points, here are my thoughts…
Reid hasn’t played much for 4 seasons and he’s not getting any younger, but yes IF he does get fully fit he’s prbly in our best 22.
If McKay comes in and JMac moves back then Ollie gets squeezed out of the backline. He’s actually a good attacking player, better kick for goal than say a Hayward and could also play a negating role on the half forward line when required. Or as you say, if Fox comes out, he becomes the 7th defender?
I really think Horse should give Heeney an extended crack at playing onball. I think he can be the big bodied mid that we’re all looking for (note he was a gun mid in junior rep footy). Sheldrick looked good in his last couple of games before getting injured but it’s still too early to assume he gets a regular spot in our midfield.

 

[Bandicoot]

Certainly but fell short by 15 goals with those players so what do you do?

Guess thats the tough question.

True, but I was responding to a post that said "we won't make a grand final with that lot"

 

[GoTheSwannies]

I'm not sure Reid is best 22 if fit, he's always taken a while to get going, and even in 2022 he was patchy in the first part of the season. Other than that, his injury history doesn't give me faith that if we begin to rely on him and he becomes a core part of our gameplan, that his body will hold up, putting us in the same Reid-or-bust situation as last year.

If we're to win a GF, Reid needs to be the icing and not part of the cake, because we need the team functioning well in the event he's out with injury.

I guess what I'm saying is we can't afford to rely on him and need to ensure our other talls are in good form.

 

[S120]

Gotta say, I'm pretty excited about the following possible line-up. I'm assuming McKay will stay in Melbourne at this point going on the reports and I've gone ahead and added Doedee in because I'm amidst a gap at work and why not.

B: Doedee - McCartin - Rampe
HB: Lloyd - Melican - Blakey
C: Gulden - Mills - Campbell
HF: Heeney - McDonald - McInerney
F: Papley - McLean - Parker
R: Grundy - Rowbottom - Warner

I/C: Amartey - Sheldrick - Florent - Hayward

Sub: Fox

Emer: Francis - Roberts - Buller

Depth: Cunningham - Ladhams - Wicks - McAndrew - Warner - Arnold

I think we've gotta somehow have Cunningham overtaken because although he is an excellent lock down defender, he doesn't provide enough rebound and run. Doedee is an excellent long-term replacement for Rampe, although his injury history is getting pretty significant. It assumes Melican can finally get and stay fit if we don't get McKay, so that's a question mark but he has shown his best is absolutely senior-calibre.

Buller I suspect will be locked in to taking Amartey's spot all summer and I'd suspect Joel will need a big pre-season to get very fit, otherwise Buller will be primed and ready.

I'm hoping Sheldrick has a big pre-season because, as I've said before, nobody outside of Errol excites me more for their future. Between he, Logan, Campbell, and Sheldrick, we would be hoping for some big pre-seasons to boost our development this summer.

 

[Del198236]

Gotta say, I'm pretty excited about the following possible line-up. I'm assuming McKay will stay in Melbourne at this point going on the reports and I've gone ahead and added Doedee in because I'm amidst a gap at work and why not.

B: Doedee - McCartin - Rampe
HB: Lloyd - Melican - Blakey
C: Gulden - Mills - Campbell
HF: Heeney - McDonald - McInerney
F: Papley - McLean - Parker
R: Grundy - Rowbottom - Warner

I/C: Amartey - Sheldrick - Florent - Hayward

Sub: Fox

Emer: Francis - Roberts - Buller

Depth: Cunningham - Ladhams - Wicks - McAndrew - Warner - Arnold

I think we've gotta somehow have Cunningham overtaken because although he is an excellent lock down defender, he doesn't provide enough rebound and run. Doedee is an excellent long-term replacement for Rampe, although his injury history is getting pretty significant. It assumes Melican can finally get and stay fit if we don't get McKay, so that's a question mark but he has shown his best is absolutely senior-calibre.

Buller I suspect will be locked in to taking Amartey's spot all summer and I'd suspect Joel will need a big pre-season to get very fit, otherwise Buller will be primed and ready.

I'm hoping Sheldrick has a big pre-season because, as I've said before, nobody outside of Errol excites me more for their future. Between he, Logan, Campbell, and Sheldrick, we would be hoping for some big pre-seasons to boost our development this summer.

pretty good effort..
But..
disagree re Cunningham. We need a lock down defender!. Blackey, Florent, Lloyd and even Rampe can provide the rebound. With the exception of Florent and Blakey (who aren't lockdown defenders).. No-one has the pace or agility to play on the oppos best small forward - and every opposition has one!
You mention Cunningham is an 'excellent lock down defender', and are critical of his lack of rebound.. I reckon his lock down job is more important than another rebounder... and agree he is excellent (at least the best we have) at that role

McDonald, McLean, Amartey, Buller combination will be an interesting watch over the next two years
As will the inside/outside/forwrad types - Co Warner, Mitchel, Magor, HHK

 

[Kiama Chris]

pretty good effort..
But..
disagree re Cunningham. We need a lock down defender!. Blackey, Florent, Lloyd and even Rampe can provide the rebound. With the exception of Florent and Blakey (who aren't lockdown defenders).. No-one has the pace or agility to play on the oppos best small forward - and every opposition has one!
You mention Cunningham is an 'excellent lock down defender', and are critical of his lack of rebound.. I reckon his lock down job is more important than another rebounder... and agree he is excellent (at least the best we have) at that role

McDonald, McLean, Amartey, Buller combination will be an interesting watch over the next two years
As will the inside/outside/forwrad types - Co Warner, Mitchel, Magor, HHK

I can see how the first group can be fully utilised and remain engaged with the club. Injuries, rotations, so on.
That second group will be more difficult because they have a strong group in front of them who will be hard to dislodge. Heeney, Hayward, the wingers, Chad maybe. Very solid. Why Stephens is leaving. These guys will need to really tear VFL apart to put some pressure on and even then it may take injury for them to get a run.
I suspect we will lose a number of them due to lack of opportunities. Can't be helped.

 

[Del198236]

I can see how the first group can be fully utilised and remain engaged with the club. Injuries, rotations, so on.
That second group will be more difficult because they have a strong group in front of them who will be hard to dislodge. Heeney, Hayward, the wingers, Chad maybe. Very solid. Why Stephens is leaving. These guys will need to really tear VFL apart to put some pressure on and even then it may take injury for them to get a run.
I suspect we will lose a number of them due to lack of opportunities. Can't be helped.

Yep, of course.. Those guys are all developing and are all depth. I just like them and are keen to watch what they can produce over the next couple of years (if they stay on the list)
There will be injuries, there always is.. so I wouldn't be too surprised to see some of them get a few games next year

 

[Adnico26Parker]

 

[SuperMal]

Greene is 182 cm Papley is 178cm

Greene is 85kg

Both small forwards

But I guess if you want to specify 180 max just to exclude him .


But sure if you got for 178cm forwards with the initials T and P then Papley is the best

Or, I have a freedom of will and the strength of mind to ignore your need to be agreed with - and I chose those parameters deliberately to p1ss you off.

I know which my money is on.

 

[Swannie0307]

Saw a quick Harley Reid update on TV today and they were raving on about how he’s a big bodied mid and he’s 185cm and 85kg. Well we have one too, his name is Isaac and he’s 185cm and 88kgs. With the likely (and correct) move of Parker forward, I really hope Horse puts Heeney in the guts in 2024… and not just a trial for a couple of games but for the whole bloody season!

 

[RUNVS]

I want to trade for Ed Richards

20

Ed Richards

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.3

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

and play him and Grundy as our key defenders.

 

[Jewelsbon]

I want to trade for Ed Richards and play him and Grundy as our key defenders.

Ahhh the good old days...

 

[SuperMal]

Saw a quick Harley Reid update on TV today and they were raving on about how he’s a big bodied mid and he’s 185cm and 85kg. Well we have one too, his name is Isaac and he’s 185cm and 88kgs. With the likely (and correct) move of Parker forward, I really hope Horse puts Heeney in the guts in 2024… and not just a trial for a couple of games but for the whole bloody season!

It would be great if Heeney could play that role.

I just wonder why Horse hasn’t pulled that trigger? -

It could be a lack of goal kickers…but I’d be surprised.

It could be he wants Hayward and Heeney to be the deep running half fwds - Heeney works in that role but surely its secondary to the midfield?

I have no answers but team balance MAY be an issue.

 

[Swannie0307]

It would be great if Heeney could play that role.

I just wonder why Horse hasn’t pulled that trigger? -

It could be a lack of goal kickers…but I’d be surprised.

It could be he wants Hayward and Heeney to be the deep running half fwds - Heeney works in that role but surely its secondary to the midfield?

I have no answers but team balance MAY be an issue.

He can definitely play that role - he played all his junior footy as an elite on-baller, and was selected in the 2014 U18’s All Australian team as ruck rover! (quite a handy team that was too -> 2014 AFL Under 18 Championships - Wikipedia)
Problem was in his first years as a senior, our midfield was pretty tough to crack into (similar to Cal being moved to defence in his early years).
Given now we need a Parker replacement, it would be very frustrating if Horse doesn’t put him on-ball ‘where he belongs’!?!?