List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[Elixuh]

It’s a small thing, but Brandon Ryan cost us our second round pick this year.

Which is a fair chunk of points towards matching Ashcroft or Marshall.

I thought Ryan was like 20. Only found out yesterday when I was trolling some hawks that he is 27 this year lol.

 

[Sproj]

Even if we have a slightly down year this season (I still think we will finish top 8 anyway but not top 4), we are primed for 2025.

Let's assume Berry and McCluggage stay.

We also bring in WAshcroft, LAshcroft, Doedee and Coleman, those are four massive ins and is also not factoring any progression we might see from the likes of Morris, Tunstill, etc. It also does not factor in any young ruckman we might be looking at in addition to Smith or the other academy kid/s we might get who might do a Fletcher and prove themselves ready far before expected.

We are absolutely ready to give 2025 a red hot crack whatever happens this year and if everyone hangs around, there are going to be some massive selection headaches and some usual best 22 players finding themselves on the outer.

 

[Kickback Flip]

To be honest, we ain’t paying Clugga $1m+ to plonk him on a wing.

Why not? Hugh's best two seasons at the Lions has been playing on the wing. He was very stiff not to be All Australian playing on the wing.

Also, playing wing and earning one million isn't out of the ordinary. Errol Gulden just signed a contract which would be close to seven figures. Bailey Smith is rumoured to be offered around this figure to leave the Bulldogs.

The AFL has also predicted that the league will have around 70 to 80 1 million per year players within the next few years with the new CBA.

 

[Section 5]

It’s a small thing, but Brandon Ryan cost us our second round pick this year.

Which is a fair chunk of points towards matching Ashcroft or Marshall.

I did not go into it much when i saw the multiple picks etc on Draft Guru see below. Just went for "basically nothing".
It was part of the Gunston trade so we gained some salary cap relief also, which is hard to convert to draft points.
Then there was what we got back from the Hawks
.......................................................................
From AFL article
The Lions have sent a future second-rounder (tied to Brisbane) and picks 47 and 61 to the Hawks along with Gunston.
Ryan, a future fourth-rounder (tied to the Hawks) and picks 39 and 54 are heading to Brisbane.

From Draft Guru
Traded for #47 + #61 + #2024R2 (Brisbane) + Gunston
(with #39 + #54 + #2024R4 (Hawthorn))+ Ryan

Its a bit hard to work out net points as you would have to follow all those Lions picks through to where each ended up.
Then of course we used some or all of these picks for the 2023 draftees.

The club may have tried to trade picks in what ended up being Morris & Lloyd back into the 2024 draft but maybe no takers.
Or maybe they were happy to take players at what ended up being pick 31 & 42.

 

[Section 5]

Said last year we massively overpaid and still confused to this day why we did so?

But did we ?.
See above for the actual trade.

 

[martinson]

I did not go into it much when i saw the multiple picks etc on Draft Guru see below. Just went for "basically nothing".
It was part of the Gunston trade so we gained some salary cap relief also, which is hard to convert to draft points.
Then there was what we got back from the Hawks
.......................................................................
From AFL article
The Lions have sent a future second-rounder (tied to Brisbane) and picks 47 and 61 to the Hawks along with Gunston.
Ryan, a future fourth-rounder (tied to the Hawks) and picks 39 and 54 are heading to Brisbane.

From Draft Guru
Traded for #47 + #61 + #2024R2 (Brisbane) + Gunston
(with #39 + #54 + #2024R4 (Hawthorn))+ Ryan

Its a bit hard to work out net points as you would have to follow all those Lions picks through to where each ended up.
Then of course we used some or all of these picks for the 2023 draftees.

The club may have tried to trade picks in what ended up being Morris & Lloyd back into the 2024 draft but maybe no takers.
Or maybe they were happy to take players at what ended up being pick 31 & 42.

If Ryan ends up a Senior player it's a great deal.

If not ,as you say , it's very difficult to know the net result.

 

[buttermuffs]

That'd be for our recruiters to decide, I'm certainly no recruiter. But since you're asking for my opinion, out of the players who are out of contract I like Ollie Florent, Conor Nash, Alex Davies and Jack Graham. I wouldn't mind seeing how Cam Zurhaar goes in a better team also. Probably others that I've overlooked too.

Literally none of them play wing.

 

[Scubaveg]

I hate Nerang. Nerang is a shithole.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[buttermuffs]

Berry only needs to be on a back ended contract that puts him in the clubs top 25% of earners for this season alone, to trigger restrive free agency.

That's not proving Berry is on a big contract over the life of his current deal. Pretty sure the reported speculation when he re-signed his current deal, was $600k per.

Top 25% of the list is 11 players, so half the starting best 22. Considering two of our best 22 are still on their rookie deals, and another 2 are on their first contract post rookie deal, it's not hard to see Berry being one of the better paid players in our team, even if he's "just" on $600k.

Puts some good perspective on it. I’m gonna see if I can name the ten players I think he’d be alongside in the top 25%.

Neale
McCluggage
Dunkley
Andrews
Doedee
Daniher
Cameron
Hipwood
Coleman
McInerney

 

[SpecialBruce]

I mean, any thing is possible, but I don’t see how we manage a mini rebuild.

Our drafting for the next two or three years is pretty much laid out there, with our father sons and academy kids coming through.

Don’t believe we’ll have the draft capital to be active in the trade market.

By mini rebuild I mean we play some of the kids for an extended and start to work out who can fill the roles of some other players in the team and who will not make it as an AFL footballer. Better to work that out now rather than later.

 

[buttermuffs]

Lyons is cooked I agree.

Zorko and Lester would be in our best 5 players this year. One's 35 and the other took 8 years to cement a spot.

That's the worry.

Whether we can't afford to drop games or we don't think the reserves will ever be good enough we're just not blooding enough young players. I can see the reasons why but whatever, playing Lyons is not the way to go.

Bit of a tangent but does anyone think Zorko can reach 300 games?

Hit 250 during the grand final and if he stays healthy this year will be on around 273. If he stays healthy with this output he could make the AA squad and would definitely want to go again next year. Then he’d be around 290-296. At that point he could stay on and be a sub for however many games left at 37.

It would be improbable but he has looked quite healthy this year and has found a role that’s less demanding on his body.

I would really love to see it happen, after Rich missed out I’d love to see another reach the milestone who’s played through the dark years.

 

[buttermuffs]

I’ve always been against tanking, but not sure where you get a “primed list” from.

We made a bloody grand final last year, lost by four points and have every player from that side available this year bar Coleman but also get Ashcroft back.

It’s a list well primed to win a premiership. There have been teams with primed lists that also never win one.

 

[Viceregal]

Anyone seriously thinking about tanking ... apart from the whole culture killing side of things... do they really think the V/AFL would pass up such a gilt edged gift wrapped fallout free opportunity to show themselves tough on those trying to rort the system... We would look with fondness at the early 2000's Blues wishing we were so blessed!

 

[Nathan Barley]

Anyone seriously thinking about tanking ... apart from the whole culture killing side of things... do they really think the V/AFL would pass up such a gilt edged gift wrapped fallout free opportunity to show themselves tough on those trying to rort the system... We would look with fondness at the early 2000's Blues wishing we were so blessed!

Just need to send Joe, Charlie, Lachie, Harris and Oscar in for surgery around round 14

 

[briztoon]

But did we ?.

Yes.

We traded a second round pick + Gunston for a player who was a mid season rookie pick 5 months earlier. (Who we then gave a 3 year contract to).

See above for the actual trade.

 

[Nunez]

Yes.

We traded a second round pick + Gunston for a player who was a mid season rookie pick 5 months earlier. (Who we then gave a 3 year contract to).

Maybe we rate him?

 

[briztoon]

Puts some good perspective on it. I’m gonna see if I can name the ten players I think he’d be alongside in the top 25%.

Neale
McCluggage
Dunkley
Andrews
Doedee
Daniher
Cameron
Hipwood
Coleman
McInerney

Rayner

 

[Nunez]

Then play him, can think of one left footer he could replace who still has the same issues as he did five years ago and hasn’t really improved.

I think he'd have played by now if he wasn't returning from injury.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Didn’t our (original) second rounder last year end up being pick 43?

For context

 

[Nunez]

He’d have to be worth a look in perhaps a week or two in favour of Gardiner then.

Tbh I think Smith is ahead of him.

 

[BangyBangy]

I hate Nerang. Nerang is a shithole.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Section 5]

Yes.

We traded a second round pick + Gunston for a player who was a mid season rookie pick 5 months earlier. (Who we then gave a 3 year contract to).

You are conveniently leaving everything else out that the Lions got back on the trade.

I will stick by my first assessment that on the whole Ryan cost us "basically nothing."
Regarding Ryans 3-year deal, it was most likely less or not much more than the year remaining on Gunstons 12 months contract.
Can't find anything on the reported salary Gunston was paid coming to the Lions but it would have been more than the 2 years deal the Hawks offered him to stay.
It was reported that Gunston went back to the Hawks for $500k.

Gunston is 32 years and 6 months old. People on BF were mostly happy to see him go.
This year Gunston played 3 (1 subbed off) of 6 games with the 17th placed Hawks who have 1 win against the winless North.
Ryan is 26 years and 5 months old. He may or may not get any AFL games while at the Lions. Time will tell.

 

[p4p1]

Is there any chance WAshcroft spends a lot of time on the wing when he comes back? I’m not in the camp of moving Berry on, he has his shortcomings but he has strengths which some of our players lack. I’m much more worried about players that aren’t performing right now or have never been consistent.

 

[mpal6]

Is there any chance WAshcroft spends a lot of time on the wing when he comes back? I’m not in the camp of moving Berry on, he has his shortcomings but he has strengths which some of our players lack. I’m much more worried about players that aren’t performing right now or have never been consistent.

We have a wing and rebounding half back need right now. Club shouldn't play 4D chess on these options and pick up Frank Szekely from SANFL - as a speedy rebounding small or wing. If he settles and excels, that's great. If he turns out to be mid-tier he'll still add pacey small defender to our list which we lack badly.

Watching Stengle, Close and all Geelong smalls rebound off our small defenders and run away was painful. We need to add pace in the back half. McKenna will be back but we need to cover Coleman and this Szekely guy seems ideal with his kicking skills as well as run n gun style from D50.

Considering we don't have the draft picks to get players in the upcoming years and all will go for academy or father son etc, we better use these mid-season chances whenever it pops up to build cover for our needs. I'd even put Doedee on LTI at this stage if we lose a couple more and get another mature player on the list. When we get to delisting phase we can hang on to the mature ones rather than run the gauntlet trying to get them via open draft.

 

[briztoon]

We have a wing and rebounding half back need right now. Club shouldn't play 4D chess on these options and pick up Frank Szekely from SANFL - as a speedy rebounding small or wing. If he settles and excels, that's great. If he turns out to be mid-tier he'll still add pacey small defender to our list which we lack badly.

Watching Stengle, Close and all Geelong smalls rebound off our small defenders and run away was painful. We need to add pace in the back half. McKenna will be back but we need to cover Coleman and this Szekely guy seems ideal with his kicking skills as well as run n gun style from D50.

Considering we don't have the draft picks to get players in the upcoming years and all will go for academy or father son etc, we better use these mid-season chances whenever it pops up to build cover for our needs. I'd even put Doedee on LTI at this stage if we lose a couple more and get another mature player on the list. When we get to delisting phase we can hang on to the mature ones rather than run the gauntlet trying to get them via open draft.

Both Doedee & Coleman are listed as out for the season. So that’s potentially two spots we can open up.