List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[TheBlueCampaigner]

Charlie McCartin could be in our sights according to media reports and recommended by Ed Curnow.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Finally a sensible and realistic target. Butters...lol.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I hate the argument that our midfield is one-dimensional. If it appears that way it is a fault of coaching/vision and (to a lesser extent) injury management as much as anything.

Across our midfield we have a bunch of unique tools who have, IMO, been underdeveloped and underutilised:

- Cripps. A 196cm, contested, pack-breaking beast. A true unicorn who SHOULD also be a marking target around the ground and the best damn 'drop back in space' interceptor when the game is on the line in the league. We, of course, ignore his wide skillset and use him exclusively as an inside bull, with occasional stints in the ruck.

- Walsh: an inside/outside, running machine, who (at least when he joined the league) had the ability to read the play of James Hird. Should be able to carve up games off the wing, half-back, and just generally going wherever he wants (a la Daicos/Hird). We, of course, ignore his wide range of capabilities and use him exclusively as a midfield bull.

- George Hewett: Mr Reliable, capable of playing a stopping opponent while also accumulating the ball. We use him as an inside bull and defensive stopper.

- Adam Cerra: a smooth moving, inside/outside midfielder who is a reliable kick and can also play wing/half back. We, of course, use him almost entirely as an inside bull and rarely use him in open space.

- Matt Kennnedy: a big bodied pure midfielder who has shown a knack for drifting forward to kick goals out of the midfield. A natural inside bull, we (obviously) use him almost exclusively as a third tall forward and makeshift defender, except when others are injured.

That's 5 very different core midfielders, all in their prime. Cerra was barely sighted this year but the other 4 all bring different things to the table. Then the rotations to add variety: should have been Martin, Cuningham, Docherty, occasionally Motlop and Fogarty (ok, injuries absolutely gutted this aspect in 2024).The only real duplication I would see is E Hollands and Kennedy, but almost in reverse (Eli has shown a preference to start forward and then push up into midfield). Then add in the different looks we create with TDK (a unicorn athletic and competitive beast) vs McKay (a true CHF and round the ground marking threat) vs SOS vs Pittonet as the ruck.

And the lack of creativity stretches further as well: why doesn't Charlie C pinch-hit in the middle a la Stringer/Franklin? Why don't we see Saad go through when we want some speed/burst, or at least come up to the wing? Cincotta had a few weeks as a tagger, the disappeared out of the rotation.

I simply cannot accept that our midfield is one-dimensional. It's a coaching issue more than anything.

To highlight the contrast, Hawthorn this season trotted out a midfield of:

• James Worpel - a tough, inside type
• Jai Newcombe - a tough, inside type
• Will Day - decent speed and athleticism, but mostly a strong tough competitive mid
• Conor Nash - a tough, defensive midfielder known for his toughness around the ball
• Dylan Moore - a forward/mid who adds creativity when he is up and running
• Josh Ward - an inside mid who is competitive and a good runner, but lacks speed
• Lloyd Meek - a career backup ruck who is pretty similar to Pitto imo (or was seen that way prior to this year; he can crash and bash, and anything else is a bonus)

Hawthorn are arguably more one-dimensional than we are, and their players have similar deficiencies. None are really great defensive runners, as a team they get opened up out hte back, etc. And they don't have anyone with Cripps uniqueness, or Walsh/Cerra's skillset. And yet the Hawks managed to have probably the most dynamic, exciting and at times unstoppable midfields around.

There's increasing vibes coming out that Vossy is blaming the players and seeking to move on guys who he feels doesnt' 'fit' his structure, then overpaying to chase the perfect replacement, rather than using what he has and building something out of that. We've pushed out Stocker, Dow; we're sending out Kennedy and Young and Owies, and delisting Martin and... so that we can get the cap space to bring in Houston to fix a problem that shouldn't exist.

I'm very worried, tbh. Our depth is getting skinnier and skinnier, the players who are thriving are getting older, and there's very little coming through amongst the young guys. It's not dissimilar to Voss's previous stint at Brisbane which led to them needing a complete list rebuild, with young players leaving for 'more opportunity' even as the team fell off a cliff...

Nope, we have slowing, slow, slower, slowest & deadset goes backwards!

100% coaching/vision/game style makes us even slower but not one of our mids has a step and burst.

Crippa is a ****ing monster who is just hard to stop, Walsh runs faster then everyone else all day - but not quickly, Cerra is a Hew\Kennedy upgrade but not speedy, Kennedy - speed isn’t his thing & Hewett goes ****ing backwards!

Need some hunger in the middle- younger & faster!
Need a real sense of urgency that our mid definitely does not have that

 

[Blue and Silver]

Charlie McCartin could be in our sights according to media reports and recommended by Ed Curnow.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

We will probably need to primary draft him ahead of the Swans

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[btdg]

Nope, we have slowing, slow, slower, slowest & deadset goes backwards!

100% coaching/vision/game style makes us even slower but not one of our mids has a step and burst.

Crippa is a ****ing monster who is just hard to stop, Walsh runs faster then everyone else all day - but not quickly, Cerra is a Hew\Kennedy upgrade but not speedy, Kennedy - speed isn’t his thing & Hewett goes ****ing backwards!

Need some hunger in the middle- younger & faster!
Need a real sense of urgency that our mid definitely does not have that

I genuinely don't think this is correct.

Cripps - have a look at these highlights and you can see plenty of run and burst. Probably gets 'off' from centre bounces as much as anyone in the league. But then also look at the highlights and notice that every single one is him in a tight, contested situation. Even streaming down the ground he is always in the corridor. He never gets to the outside, never gets to the space to beat his defender 1-1, never gets to sit back behind the ball and use pace running downhill. He is ALWAYS at the coalface.


Now take Walsh. Here are his highlights from his 2021 AA season.

Notice a) how sharp his burst is in the first highlight, and b) how many highlights feature him startring and finishing on the outside- on the wing, in space in th emiddle, even dropping back defensively. Then watch this

This is his 2024 highlights - even just the first minute shows that everything is centre bounce and centre square focused, congested, and in the few occasions he gets to the outside are almost all give and go handball receives. He used to have much more freedom to roam and use his speed and run. Now he's a purely center corridor guy.

You can do the same with Cerra. These guys aren't slow by midfielder standards - they are just being put in slow positions. And from an opposition standpoint, if we keep putting Cripps/Cerra/Walsh all inside the contest, then it is as easy as anything to slow us down - just sit on the outside of them, deny them space to be creative, and control the 'outside' if it does pop free.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Our midfield is one paced. One paced midfields need either elite flankers and wings around them, or to play a slow contested brand of footy.

Our flankers are pretty ordinary so we like to play a congested game style which maximizes our strengths around the contest and masks our weaknesses as best we can which is transition running.

It's ugly but it works.

Imo the coaching team has recognized the pitfalls of this strategy however, and thus want to upgrade our flanks so we can move away from that brand of footy going forward.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Our midfield is one paced. One paced midfields need either elite flankers and wings around them, or to play a slow contested brand of footy.

Or a freak ruckman who plays as an extra mid...

Or a significant change to the mix so they're not one paced...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Or a freak ruckman who plays as an extra mid...

Or a significant change to the mix so they're not one paced...

It does, but TDK doesn't unlock extra layers to our ball movement game imo. He's just a freak around the contest like Cripps

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Our midfield is one paced. One paced midfields need either elite flankers and wings around them, or to play a slow contested brand of footy.

Our flankers are pretty ordinary so we like to play a congested game style which maximizes our strengths around the contest and masks our weaknesses as best we can which is transition running.

It's ugly but it works.

Imo the coaching team has recognized the pitfalls of this strategy however, and thus want to upgrade our flanks so we can move away from that brand of footy going forward.

I mean I think it's only one paced when the 5th / 6th picked mids are more inside guys.

Use Walsh outside and have a healthy cerra. Then the last picked mid could've been a Dow type with actual burst. Rotates off the bench because we've got the elite running capacity playing the first receiver. Cripps TDK + Hewett extracting. Motlop / Durdin / Holland's getting 1 or 2 stoppages a game each. Don't think it's really that big an issue and pretty easy to 'fix' because it's not really a group issue. It's just a single slot. People - including me - have done the side by side to dynamic looking midfield groups like the hawks and we are generally similar.

Like you say though. Wouldn't mind figuring out what's happened to the Saad and other flanker dynamics .... That seems more glaringly absent than other things to me anyway

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It does, but TDK doesn't unlock extra layers to our ball movement game imo. He's just a freak around the contest like Cripps

Perhaps watch the games from GC - Geelong again... particularly the * and Cats game...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Perhaps watch the games from GC - Geelong again... particularly the * and Cats game...

A game where we annihilated a team from stoppage isn't really what I'm discussing. When people refer to our 'slow' midfield they are referencing what happens in open play.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I mean I think it's only one paced when the 5th / 6th picked mids are more inside guys.

Use Walsh outside and have a healthy cerra. Then the last picked mid could've been a Dow type with actual burst. Rotates off the bench because we've got the elite running capacity playing the first receiver. Cripps TDK + Hewett extracting. Motlop / Durdin / Holland's getting 1 or 2 stoppages a game each. Don't think it's really that big an issue and pretty easy to 'fix' because it's not really a group issue. It's just a single slot. People - including me - have done the side by side to dynamic looking midfield groups like the hawks and we are generally similar.

Like you say though. Wouldn't mind figuring out what's happened to the Saad and other flanker dynamics .... That seems more glaringly absent than other things to me anyway

Yep. GWS, Hawks, Brisbane etc don't have the most explosive of fast midfields going around but are stacked with speed off half back and half forward.

Imo if we get more from/get better flankers our speed issues around the ball would largely be nullified.

Gws does it brilliantly with Daniels, Jones and Bedford pushing up around the ball to help out Green, Cogs and Peatling/Kelly/Ward.

We really only have Fog who does that for us well.

 

[btdg]

I mean I think it's only one paced when the 5th / 6th picked mids are more inside guys.

Use Walsh outside and have a healthy cerra. Then the last picked mid could've been a Dow type with actual burst. Rotates off the bench because we've got the elite running capacity playing the first receiver. Cripps TDK + Hewett extracting. Motlop / Durdin / Holland's getting 1 or 2 stoppages a game each. Don't think it's really that big an issue and pretty easy to 'fix' because it's not really a group issue. It's just a single slot. People - including me - have done the side by side to dynamic looking midfield groups like the hawks and we are generally similar.

Like you say though. Wouldn't mind figuring out what's happened to the Saad and other flanker dynamics .... That seems more glaringly absent than other things to me anyway

This 100%. It just seems a cop-out on the part of the coaching staff who seem so rigid in what they are doing.

When all our midfielders were fit they randomly dropped Hewett to the reserves and played Kennedy full forward, back pocket and in the ruck. Those two are probably the most 'midfield-locked' players we have.

At the exact same time they were running Hollands/Cottrell on the wings and requiring them to run approximately 20,000kms per game because Cripps/Walsh aren't allowed to leave the corridor ever.

There's a bunch of options to get more run on the outside, anyway. Any or all of the following could have been tried:

• Walsh to a wing or half-back
• Cerra to a wing or half-back
• Saad further up the ground (wing/midfield)
• Williams or Boyd on a wing or HFF
• Actually giving Binns a fair shot
• Trialling Fantasia/Motlop as a ball-carrying defender
• More creative options: Charlie to the midfield and an open forward line. Cripps to CHB or as a loose player in defence, or to the wing and open space.

This also reflects some strange list or player (or whatever you call it) management IMO. In two years we let Setterfield, Dow and Fisher go elsewhere, and delisted Stocker, Newnes, O'Brien, Honey, Philp, Hayes and Tom Williamson. Now we're encouraging Kennedy, Owies, Young and Martin to move on, and have delisted Cuningham. None stars, but go back three years and you would have hoped that some or all were contributing now, and right there is the lack of outside performance.

To replace them we have added Acres, O Hollands, E Hollands, Fantasia and ummm, Cincotta and Lord via mid-season draft? We have lost a heap of depth and flexibility, become very rigid in our structure and in 2024 left ourselves incredibly vulnerable to injury. Zac Fisher would have been second on our team in running bounces this year!

 

[BlueTongue]

While I think of it, what is to become of Matt Duffy? Is he still committed to start with us next year?

 

[Bletch]

While I think of it, what is to become of Matt Duffy? Is he still committed to start with us next year?

Yep, arrived mid-season, and has been training with the squad last couple of months.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

A game where we annihilated a team from stoppage isn't really what I'm discussing. When people refer to our 'slow' midfield they are referencing what happens in open play.

hmmm... wonder why...

 

[bmaurizio]

Our midfield is one paced. One paced midfields need either elite flankers and wings around them, or to play a slow contested brand of footy.

Our flankers are pretty ordinary so we like to play a congested game style which maximizes our strengths around the contest and masks our weaknesses as best we can which is transition running.

It's ugly but it works.

Imo the coaching team has recognized the pitfalls of this strategy however, and thus want to upgrade our flanks so we can move away from that brand of footy going forward.

Agree we desperately need a quick, evasive , high footy IQ midfielder that can mark and distribute the ball well.
In fact if we could somehow snare two, reckon we’d be very close to Nos.17.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Agree we desperately need a quick, evasive , high footy IQ midfielder that can mark and distribute the ball well.
In fact if we could somehow snare two, reckon we’d be very close to Nos.17.

Lol so.... 'if we could nab two midfielders with traits that would.have them in the top 20 players in the league and add them to Cripps and Walsh we maybe win 17'....

If we nabbed 2 in that description we'd better be going for 20 in 4 years time. Cripes.

 

[The Bighouse]

This 100%. It just seems a cop-out on the part of the coaching staff who seem so rigid in what they are doing.

When all our midfielders were fit they randomly dropped Hewett to the reserves and played Kennedy full forward, back pocket and in the ruck. Those two are probably the most 'midfield-locked' players we have.

At the exact same time they were running Hollands/Cottrell on the wings and requiring them to run approximately 20,000kms per game because Cripps/Walsh aren't allowed to leave the corridor ever.

There's a bunch of options to get more run on the outside, anyway. Any or all of the following could have been tried:

• Walsh to a wing or half-back
• Cerra to a wing or half-back
• Saad further up the ground (wing/midfield)
• Williams or Boyd on a wing or HFF
• Actually giving Binns a fair shot
• Trialling Fantasia/Motlop as a ball-carrying defender
• More creative options: Charlie to the midfield and an open forward line. Cripps to CHB or as a loose player in defence, or to the wing and open space.

This also reflects some strange list or player (or whatever you call it) management IMO. In two years we let Setterfield, Dow and Fisher go elsewhere, and delisted Stocker, Newnes, O'Brien, Honey, Philp, Hayes and Tom Williamson. Now we're encouraging Kennedy, Owies, Young and Martin to move on, and have delisted Cuningham. None stars, but go back three years and you would have hoped that some or all were contributing now, and right there is the lack of outside performance.

To replace them we have added Acres, O Hollands, E Hollands, Fantasia and ummm, Cincotta and Lord via mid-season draft? We have lost a heap of depth and flexibility, become very rigid in our structure and in 2024 left ourselves incredibly vulnerable to injury. Zac Fisher would have been second on our team in running bounces this year!

We have top-end talent that demands top-dollar that then requires lower pay scale underneath.

Depth is going to be tested as you can’t keep middle-tier paid players at VFL level, for the salary cap but also those players will want for more opportunity.

MK was tasked to be the JSOS replacement after his knee injury.

Think the depth stood up quite well but the injury numbers were the mis-management area of concern (and addressed).

 

[The Bighouse]

Yep, arrived mid-season, and has been training with the squad last couple of months.

HBF’er or midfielder in 2025?

 

[blues4flag]

Surely we persevere with Young and get his self belief worked on?

It appears a confidence thing?

Certainly has shown he can play well at the highest level...

We see so many talls with elite physical attributes struggle with the mental side of the game. Much smaller pool of players to choose from, so can't be as selective with the mental side of the game. Probably as intrinsic as the physical, just a lot less visible.

Seen enough from Young to conclude he's unlikely to be a reliable contributor. Might have a season ala Jordan Russell where it clicks, but not sure he'd be able to keep the self doubt away long term.

It's what separates the good from the great. Heaps of physically talented players, but very few have that unwavering self belief, drive and determination.

 

[Bletch]

HBF’er or midfielder in 2025?

Dunno. Prob a 3rd tall type in defence.

 

[BlueTongue]

Charlie McCartin could be in our sights according to media reports and recommended by Ed Curnow.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Apparently has been since June at least. ..Along with Swans, & Cats

From recruiter, to the recruited: How late-blooming McCartin is turning the heads of AFL scouts

Charlie McCartin, the late-developing middle brother of Paddy and Tom, is attracting the attention of AFL clubs while playing country footy in Lorne.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Coona Blues]

Dunno. Prob a 3rd tall type in defence.

That is surely where he starts. No matter what traits the Irish boys have offensively or athletically, they have always done better starting their time behind the ball. We would be mad not to. The couple of months he has spent around the team is season, hopefully has given him a head start watching some vision and having some clues how to transfer his talents to our game.

Duffy looked taller than his previously listed 194cm in some recent shots (standing beside rucks), so may have grown to the range of being a key position option. It is yet to be seen what his in game traits may be. Touted as having athleticism to go through the midfield, it will be “fun” seeing how and how quickly he develops.

 

[Coops93]

Did either of the Irish boys play any footy this year? I know one did a knee, so he obviously didn't, but did the other fella?

 

[GoBlues!]

Did either of the Irish boys play any footy this year? I know one did a knee, so he obviously didn't, but did the other fella?

- Rob Monahan

vfl.aflmstats.com