List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[WeeBlake]

This is why it's frustrating to hear fans whinge about their academy concessions.

Academy picks alone don't make you a great side. Otherwise Gold Coast and GWS would be powerhouses of the competition. They aren't.

Only three of their best 22 are first round academy picks. Pretty much every club in the league gave Sydney a huge leg up by not bidding on Gulden early.

They've had some shocking busts too. Like taking Gary Rohan (pick 6), Lewis Johnston (pick 12), Matt Ling (pick 14), Dylan Stephens (pick 5)

But their recruitment record taking the other picks they've had has been outstanding. They took Dawson and Papley with junk picks in the year they got Callum Mills. That's why they continue to be successful.

In contrast we took Paul Hunter one pick before Tom Papley. Huge difference in recruiting teams.

Both things can be true you know. They can recruit well, AND ALSO get a huge leg up from their academy.

 

[Scorpus]

And when they do have a bust, they usually get rid of them pretty quickly instead of wasting games and list spots on them.

Yep, they're regularly adding 8-10 players a season to their list. They take their later picks and use rookie/mid-season picks largely on younger players with upside

Since 2019 we've added 36 players to our list. Sydney have added 40. Only one of those teams was doing a full rebuild.

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Might depend on whether they've nominated a 6 month or 18 month deal.

We should have enough players coming off the list for list spots to not be as much of a squeeze this year.

I'd like us to pick up a small forward and/or small defender, preferably not already injured, and preferably on a six month deal.

The top half dozen will nominate 18 month deals as will many of the others.

Since introduced in 2019, how many players have gone on to be best 22 at their club (not even Noble who has no premiership medal, unlike Big Billy)? Arguably the only truly influential player from the 4 mid season drafts is Jai Newcombe.

Each year the AFL throw out a heap of click bait about how clubs will be getting the next Gary Ablett. These guys have been overlooked on numerous occasions. Based on AFL games played, Patty Parnell is in the top 10% of all mid season draft rookies. Yes, there is a 10% chance of getting another Patty Parnell .

 

[Vader]

Each year the AFL throw out a heap of click bait about how clubs will be getting the next Gary Ablett. These guys have been overlooked on numerous occasions. Based on AFL games played, Patty Parnellis in the top 10% of all mid season draft rookies. Yes, there is a 10% chance of getting another Patty Parnell.

You might want to re-phrase that. There's a 10% chance of getting a player as good as Parnell, and a 90% chance of getting someone worse. The chances of getting a "difference maker" are almost vanishingly remote.

 

[Scorpus]

Both things can be true you know. They can recruit well, AND ALSO get a huge leg up from their academy.

Every club has some inherent advantages and disadvantages. Sydney have zero go home factor in trades, but they do have an academy. They can draft Nick Blakey at a discount, but would never get a Rankine type to "return home"

Maybe if they were pulling out heaps of good players every year, but they aren't. 3 players in 10 years? We got Michalanney as a father son and benefitted from go-home with Dawson and Rankine.

The difference maker (for non-Victorian clubs, as I do think advantages if anything favor Vic clubs) is how well run the club is.

Gold Coast have been given an academy, list concessions, draft zones with free access, free top end picks... never made finals. Sydney in the same period have been right up at the top of the ladder, nailing later draft picks, doing more with less, backing up every year. And we'd be up there too if we were well run and presented as a destination club.

And I've said similar about North Melbourne and handing them tons of high end draft picks for free. Freebies don't make you a good club, it doesn't make you well run, and there's no guarantee that advantage actually translates into results.

 

[DJ75]

The more players we take in the MSD, the less flexibility we have at the end of the year (unless they are a disaster and we delist them in 5 months time.

I think Toby Murray is a must and I would probably stop at one.

There should be plenty of players we can delist or trade at the end of the year. We aren't exactly stacked with elite talent.

 

[Vader]

Every club has some inherent advantages and disadvantages. Sydney have zero go home factor in trades, but they do have an academy. They can draft Nick Blakey at a discount, but would never get a Rankine type to "return home"

Kurt Tippett?

 

[Scorpus]

Kurt Tippett?

The guy who lived in the Gold Coast for most of his life?

 

[WeeBlake]

Every club has some inherent advantages and disadvantages. Sydney have zero go home factor in trades, but they do have an academy. They can draft Nick Blakey at a discount, but would never get a Rankine type to "return home"

Maybe if they were pulling out heaps of good players every year, but they aren't. 3 players in 10 years? We got Michalanney as a father son and benefitted from go-home with Dawson and Rankine.

The difference maker (for non-Victorian clubs, as I do think advantages if anything favor Vic clubs) is how well run the club is.

Gold Coast have been given an academy, list concessions, draft zones with free access, free top end picks... never made finals. Sydney in the same period have been right up at the top of the ladder, nailing later draft picks, doing more with less, backing up every year. And we'd be up there too if we were well run and presented as a destination club.

And I've said similar about North Melbourne and handing them tons of high end draft picks for free. Freebies don't make you a good club, it doesn't make you well run, and there's no guarantee that advantage actually translates into results.

Sometimes I wonder if people even care about equalisation

 

[Twist_of_Lemon]

This is why it's frustrating to hear fans whinge about their academy concessions.

Academy picks alone don't make you a great side. Otherwise Gold Coast and GWS would be powerhouses of the competition. They aren't.

Only three of their best 22 are first round academy picks. Pretty much every club in the league gave Sydney a huge leg up by not bidding on Gulden early.

They've had some shocking busts too. Like taking Gary Rohan (pick 6), Lewis Johnston (pick 12), Matt Ling (pick 14), Dylan Stephens (pick 5)

But their recruitment record taking the other picks they've had has been outstanding. They took Dawson and Papley with junk picks in the year they got Callum Mills. That's why they continue to be successful.

In contrast we took Paul Hunter one pick before Tom Papley. Huge difference in recruiting teams.

Sydney's development is the absolute key to their success. You can have all the top picks you like (Gold Coast), but if your player development sucks (Gold Coast through the 2010s) you have nothing to show for it except a series of sacked coaches and players desperate to escape the leaky boat in hopes of better development and opportunities elsewhere.

 

[Scorpus]

Sometimes I wonder if people even care about equalisation

The academies are an attempt at equalization and to level the playing field for northern teams that are disadvantaged in other ways

The balance could probably be a bit better and these clubs be made to pay a bit more draft capital to access their players but it's hardly a top concern

We've seen what happens to some degree when there is fully open and equal access to players. The free agency system. Everyone can make offers to free agents. But what happens? These players largely leave poor clubs to move to better clubs, usually located in Victoria.

With the AFL set up the way they are with 10 teams in Victoria, a truly open draft system would see players gravitate towards Victoria and strengthen them, at the expense of non-Victorian teams.

I'd love for there to be true equalization where every team has a fair and balanced chance of success. Open and even rules for everyone is not that, it would lead (and in some ways has led) to decades of Victorian dominance.

 

[PeterSalt]

From memory, I can't remember all the details, but didn't Sydney choose to take the draft sanctions and keep COLA? for an extra year (or 2)?

And Roos talked the football department and board to pour all the extra money into their academy

 

[Vader]

The guy who lived in the Gold Coast for most of his life?

The pond scum who said he was "going home" to Sydney.

The fact is that Sydney have little problem with getting players to nominate them in trades. Other high profile examples of players going there include Franklin & Hall. They may not have a "go home" factor, but players are far more willing to go to there.

A large part of this is simply the perceived desirability of living in Sydney (the city) vs Adelaide (the city). Convincing a young player to go to Sydney is relatively easy, regardless of where they grew up. Convincing a non-South Australian to move to Adelaide is far more difficult. This has nothing to do with the clubs, and everything to do with the way the two cities are perceived.

 

[Scorpus]

The pond scum who said he was "going home" to Sydney.

The fact is that Sydney have little problem with getting players to nominate them in trades. Other high profile examples of players going there include Franklin & Hall. They may not have a "go home" factor, but players are far more willing to go to there.

A large part of this is simply the perceived desirability of living in Sydney (the city) vs Adelaide (the city). Convincing a young player to go to Sydney is relatively easy, regardless of where they grew up. Convincing a non-South Australian to move to Adelaide is far more difficult. This has nothing to do with the clubs, and everything to do with the way the two cities are perceived.

Why do all those stars choose Sydney and not GWS?

They get players to go there because they are a well run club and make convincing offers for lifestyle, money and success

 

[jackster83]

Why do all those stars choose Sydney and not GWS?

They get players to go there because they are a well run club and make convincing offers for lifestyle, money and success

Same with Brisbane vs the Suns.

 

[Vader]

Why do all those stars choose Sydney and not GWS?

They get players to go there because they are a well run club and make convincing offers for lifestyle, money and success

GWS don't have too many problems with recruiting players. More to the point, they're still working off the cycle of drafting top players, being unable to fit them into their team, trading them for more high draft picks, and starting the cycle all over again. They've been doing it ever since the club's formation.

 

[Vader]

Same with Brisbane vs the Suns.

The Suns have, historically, been an exceptionally poorly run - and under-resourced club. They're in a whole other category of shambolic management, well below what Adelaide has achieved over the years. Adelaide may have set a low bar, but GC have limboed their way under it with miles to spare.

 

[Scorpus]

It's also not like Sydney have traded in tons of good players either. They've convinced some fringe players looking for more opportunities, but since Franklin it's been... Grundy and Adams both last year?

GWS have convinced basically no one to go there outside of fringe players and cooked seniors wanting to add dollars to their career. Their best trade was Hogan basically for free because Fremantle didn't want them

Collectively Adelaide and Port in the same period traded in Gibbs, Dawson, Rankine, Horne-Francis, Burton and on top of that the SA clubs managed to convince Dixon, Aliir, Rioli, even Rockliff and Seedsman to go there when none of them were from SA

 

[FullyBigKPro]

The old Nicks special here:

"We're no busier this year than we have been in previous years."

"But what I can say to you is we are active like every other club in the competition ... we'll be as active as we've ever been."

'We are active': Crows eager to continue improving list

The Crows plan to be active in the trade period as they aim to improve their list

www.afl.com.au

 

[George Kramer]

This is why it's frustrating to hear fans whinge about their academy concessions.

Academy picks alone don't make you a great side. Otherwise Gold Coast and GWS would be powerhouses of the competition. They aren't.

Only three of their best 22 are first round academy picks. Pretty much every club in the league gave Sydney a huge leg up by not bidding on Gulden early.

They've had some shocking busts too. Like taking Gary Rohan (pick 6), Lewis Johnston (pick 12), Matt Ling (pick 14), Dylan Stephens (pick 5)

But their recruitment record taking the other picks they've had has been outstanding. They took Dawson and Papley with junk picks in the year they got Callum Mills. That's why they continue to be successful.

In contrast we took Paul Hunter one pick before Tom Papley. Huge difference in recruiting teams.

And we’ve stopped using the rookie draft to pick rookies. I’ve had plenty of arguments on here about passing up on picks, “yeah but the odds are” well the odds are zero if you don’t use the picks

 

[1990crow]

The old Nicks special here:

"We're no busier this year than we have been in previous years."

"But what I can say to you is we are active like every other club in the competition ... we'll be as active as we've ever been."

'We are active': Crows eager to continue improving list

The Crows plan to be active in the trade period as they aim to improve their list

www.afl.com.au

Nicks: blah, blah, blah it's not my fault we are losing

 

[George Kramer]

The top half dozen will nominate 18 month deals as will many of the others.

Since introduced in 2019, how many players have gone on to be best 22 at their club (not even Noble who has no premiership medal, unlike Big Billy)? Arguably the only truly influential player from the 4 mid season drafts is Jai Newcombe.

Each year the AFL throw out a heap of click bait about how clubs will be getting the next Gary Ablett. These guys have been overlooked on numerous occasions. Based on AFL games played, Patty Parnell is in the top 10% of all mid season draft rookies. Yes, there is a 10% chance of getting another Patty Parnell .

Noble has forced his way back in to the team and is playing well, he didn’t get selected for the GF but he’s played enough footy to show he’s right up there as a good player and would be a walk up start in our side.

Someone did a review the other day and there were a few more.

 

[GreyCrow]

Nicks: blah, blah, blah it's not my fault we are losing

Listening to Nicks now is like listening to the adults in a Charlie Brown special

 

[skam85]

The old Nicks special here:

"We're no busier this year than we have been in previous years."

"But what I can say to you is we are active like every other club in the competition ... we'll be as active as we've ever been."

'We are active': Crows eager to continue improving list

The Crows plan to be active in the trade period as they aim to improve their list

www.afl.com.au

but this is nice

The Crows host Waalitj Marawar on Sunday, with Nicks nominating Harry Schoenberg and Billy Dowling, who is yet to make his AFL debut, as potential replacements for Rankine, who is expected to miss three games because of a hamstring injury.

 

[Mutineer]

The top half dozen will nominate 18 month deals as will many of the others.

Since introduced in 2019, how many players have gone on to be best 22 at their club (not even Noble who has no premiership medal, unlike Big Billy)? Arguably the only truly influential player from the 4 mid season drafts is Jai Newcombe.

Each year the AFL throw out a heap of click bait about how clubs will be getting the next Gary Ablett. These guys have been overlooked on numerous occasions. Based on AFL games played, Patty Parnell is in the top 10% of all mid season draft rookies. Yes, there is a 10% chance of getting another Patty Parnell .

Not exactly correct, plenty of those spoken about as the more likely haven't stipulated longer terms. I'd also suspect some of those that have stipulated longer terms have been told by clubs they'll be likely taking them to ward off some other clubs with some interest.

At this time there are 340 nominations with the AFL still processing 12 more, so far 61 have stipulated longer terms, understandably a significant number of those are WA based players.

I would think we're looking at Geordie Payne given our interest in the 2023 draft and Toby Murray who have both stipulated longer terms.

Some of those to have done medicals are as yet not on the list.

Some of the more prominent to only stipulate short term.

Noah Howes
Joe Pike
Flynn Perez
Matthew Ling
Kobe Ryan
Trent Bianco
Kelsey Rypstra
Eamon Wilkinson
Jez McLennan
Billy Cootee
Tobyn Murray
Jacob Blight
Cam Nyko
Will Patton
Trey Ruscoe
Will Elliott