Autopsy 2024 Rd 8 Disappointing loss for Blues

[Blue1980]

All the same campaigners after every loss, two in a row they're microwaving their memberships! No doubt on the planet they are the same individuals who threw the baby out with the bath water last year! Yep the one where we made a run to the Pre-Lim final!!!!!
Give me a break, not supporters, merely barracker's.

I like the supporters who want to say “all I want to see is effort” when we get flogged but will complain the world is ending when we lose a close one.

We have issues to work on, effort not one of them.

 

[Aphrodite]

Used to be my one & only all time favourite Filth player.

Not anymore …

Up. Yours. Daicos.


Poor form

 

[Juddernaut08]

Marchy is better though injury cursed.

Just play Marchy if fit, he’s prone to breakdown at some point may as well get from him what we can.

Marchy's theoretical level is better.

Ie when he gets a string of games and can build into his form.

Issue is he rarely if ever gets that string of games. Too often he plays 1, 2, half a game before going back to the rehab.

Kemp needs to be given a large amount of games to grow...at least until Marchbank plays 3 vfl games in a row without injury.

 

[gab213]

Used to be my one & only all time favourite Filth player.

Not anymore …

Up. Yours. Daicos.


Poor form

I was shocked to see that from Peter, I had quite a bit to do with him and his family a few years back, really out of character from what I know of him.

 

[gab213]

Marchy's theoretical level is better.

Ie when he gets a string of games and can build into his form.

Issue is he rarely if ever gets that string of games. Too often he plays 1, 2, half a game before going back to the rehab.

Kemp needs to be given a large amount of games to grow...at least until Marchbank plays 3 vfl games in a row without injury.

The thing is that this latest absence was due more to a freak occurrence, Boyd coming down on his back and knocking him out, rather than any soft tissue injury or anything. I think he will play in the seniors when he's ready.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

The harsh reality is that we have a very predictable gamestyle that's fairly easy to coach against of you have the personnel at your disposal. Even the Collingwood assistant coach said as much when interviewed on SEN before the game. They knew exactly what we were going to dish up even before the opening bounce.

Our modus operandi is just hard contested ball time after time - and then watching the opposition dance away with the ball after a turnover with ease as our defence scrambles. Slow, stodgy movement of the ball allowing the opposition to get organised and drop numbers back behind the ball so we're forced to just bomb it into congestion hoping for a pack mark from our talls....and we wonder why our smalls are so ineffective. Even Eddie would have struggled in this setup.

Having said that, it's a gamestyle which is no doubt a by-product of having slower big bodied mids and no leg speed. Voss made it abundantly clear that we needed more run on our list when he arrived, which is why we recruited Acres - and drafted Ollie and Binns the same year...although I'm not convinced right now that either of those two really solve that problem.

 

[Graffy4242]

I've calmed down and am in DGAF mode now. This team is blowing/blown its chances to finish top4 or even make finals if it keeps going as it has been.

Passengers

Hewett was horrible I mean really really horrible the worst game he has played for us - ever. In fact it is a continuation of very ordinary form.
Fantasia was the invisible phantam a ghost
Durdin runs fast in straight lines- usually nowhere near the contest
Cottrell has to improve his defensive efforts to match his offensive smarts
Young is just a waste of time

Moments that cost the game from 'leaders'

1. Harry to WTF!!! Game all even a couple of minutes to go- and Charlie all alone in a one on one in tehgoal square within EASY kicking distance for you....and you decide to stab kick to an outnumber to teh top of the arc why why why???!!!

2. 1 minute to go backs to the wall deep in defensive fifty in a pocket - teh ball can only go ONEW WAY to disadvantage - teh WIDE OPEN UNGUARDED space 30 meters out of goal and Walsh lets Naicos run bye him and around a pack to kick the winning goal everyone including Walsh just watching the pretty boy waltz around - Fken Kennedy from the wrong side of the ball up actually made more ground than the rest of them trying to chase Naicos Down - Kennedy FFS


Coaching

1. Collingwood were allowed to surround every fken contest unmarked and unmanned ready for the spilled ball and off they go - every fken time OR if Carlton manages to get to a receiver they are tackled immediately ... NUMBERS COACH NUMBERS!!! FFS - there is no point playing a pretend zone defense giant a team that RUNS the ball DOH!! Man up! If Collingwood wanted to play a contesarted game PLAY A CONTESTED GAME with even numbers FFS

2. On CBB and Ball ups and Cripps - DOH the bloke was being double teamed all night how about you tell one of the other mids to give the bloke a hand-= OR (even better) stop trying to tap to Cripps who is being held back and try tapping to someone else who is unmarked FFS

Kennedy as sub - Really? Really?

We play our way - WTF is that exactly? Letting Young give the opposition half a minute to set up for his useless kick sideways to give them some more breathing time as well as set up structures - FMD and I'm sick of watching him pat the ball down to opposition crumbers thinking that that is a defensive spoil...no please no more.

Everything appears fixable with inclusions - but I'm starting to think DUMB isnt fixable.

Can't argue with any of this.

 

[Opium]

I've calmed down and am in DGAF mode now. This team is blowing/blown its chances to finish top4 or even make finals if it keeps going as it has been.

Passengers

Hewett was horrible I mean really really horrible the worst game he has played for us - ever. In fact it is a continuation of very ordinary form.
Fantasia was the invisible phantam a ghost
Durdin runs fast in straight lines- usually nowhere near the contest
Cottrell has to improve his defensive efforts to match his offensive smarts
Young is just a waste of time

Moments that cost the game from 'leaders'

1. Harry to WTF!!! Game all even a couple of minutes to go- and Charlie all alone in a one on one in tehgoal square within EASY kicking distance for you....and you decide to stab kick to an outnumber to teh top of the arc why why why???!!!

2. 1 minute to go backs to the wall deep in defensive fifty in a pocket - teh ball can only go ONEW WAY to disadvantage - teh WIDE OPEN UNGUARDED space 30 meters out of goal and Walsh lets Naicos run bye him and around a pack to kick the winning goal everyone including Walsh just watching the pretty boy waltz around - Fken Kennedy from the wrong side of the ball up actually made more ground than the rest of them trying to chase Naicos Down - Kennedy FFS


Coaching

1. Collingwood were allowed to surround every fken contest unmarked and unmanned ready for the spilled ball and off they go - every fken time OR if Carlton manages to get to a receiver they are tackled immediately ... NUMBERS COACH NUMBERS!!! FFS - there is no point playing a pretend zone defense giant a team that RUNS the ball DOH!! Man up! If Collingwood wanted to play a contesarted game PLAY A CONTESTED GAME with even numbers FFS

2. On CBB and Ball ups and Cripps - DOH the bloke was being double teamed all night how about you tell one of the other mids to give the bloke a hand-= OR (even better) stop trying to tap to Cripps who is being held back and try tapping to someone else who is unmarked FFS

Kennedy as sub - Really? Really?

We play our way - WTF is that exactly? Letting Young give the opposition half a minute to set up for his useless kick sideways to give them some more breathing time as well as set up structures - FMD and I'm sick of watching him pat the ball down to opposition crumbers thinking that that is a defensive spoil...no please no more.

Everything appears fixable with inclusions - but I'm starting to think DUMB isnt fixable.

Coaching

1. Collingwood were allowed to surround every ******* contest unmarked and unmanned ready for the spilled ball and off they go - every fken time OR if Carlton manages to get to a receiver they are tackled immediately ... NUMBERS COACH NUMBERS!!! FFS - there is no point playing a pretend zone defense giant a team that RUNS the ball DOH!! Man up! If Collingwood wanted to play a contesarted game PLAY A CONTESTED GAME with even numbers FFS


This has been the biggest issue IMHO. Voss is not a great tactical coach. To win a premiership you need to be able to adapt to different styles depending on opposition. Our zone defense is not working and it's very predictable.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

The harsh reality is that we have a very predictable gamestyle that's fairly easy to coach against of you have the personnel at your disposal. Even the Collingwood assistant coach said as much when interviewed on SEN before the game. They knew exactly what we were going to dish up even before the opening bounce.

Our modus operandi is just hard contested ball time after time - and then watching the opposition dance away with the ball after a turnover with ease as our defence scrambles. Slow, stodgy movement of the ball allowing the opposition to get organised and drop numbers back behind the ball so we're forced to just bomb it into congestion hoping for a pack mark from our talls....and we wonder why our smalls are so ineffective. Even Eddie would have struggled in this setup.

Having said that, it's a gamestyle which is no doubt a by-product of having slower big bodied mids and no leg speed. Voss made it abundantly clear that we needed more run on our list when he arrived, which is why we recruited Acres - and drafted Ollie and Binns the same year...although I'm not convinced right now that either of those two really solve that problem.

And Geelong snare Ollie Dempsey at 15 in the 2022 ROOKIE Draft???
Really could do with a burst mid with high clearance numbers to deliver the ball to the outside runners, someone with...with almost 'Dow-like' skills.

 

[BeijingBlue]

Collingwood as always have pace on the outside and they smashed us with it, as they mostly do.

I don't think having 3 195cm+ forwards is a good thing, too immobile and slow and kills our ground level game. Can't retain the ball in the forward half. Allows teams to exit too easily and good rebound sides like Collingwood will smash you. I think ideally the two talls and a ruck who can play forward a bit so DeKoning and one or two medium sized mobile forwards is where it's at. So far we haven't been able to put that together because of injuries and no depth in this area.

Collingwood use their leg speed to apply pressure. It's something I have always admired about them and been very critical about us.

In games like this, playing the better sides, those cream players we are missing hurt. It's no excuse, they had 3 clear best 22 players out.

They were just too good for us. I thought we may have been able to beat them at the contests and clearances but not the case. We're easily undone by the quicker sides around the middle. Teams like Collingwood and Adelaide have seemed to get a hold of us when we thought we were a chance. We have a very clear weakness here.

We're playing up the middle more, which is fine but you need faster defenders who can defend in space and one on one if you are going to do this because when you turn the ball over in the middle it creates these situations. We just need to get those quicker defenders back like Saad, Marchbank and McGovern.

Not sure we are up with the times tactically with our midfield. Think there is probably time for change in there. We just don't have the ability to go to a close checking pressure setup in there like Collingwood have the last few seasons. Think we just hunt the ball still or get blown away.

Don't want to see Young and Weitering in the same side again, it doesn't work. Play Durdin. TDK needs to work on his defensive game, his spoiling technique is s**t.

It takes a player a long time to develop, our young defenders are still a few seasons off.

I think the weakest part about this game and the last few weeks has been our defence. Leaked like a sieve last week. We got beating in the midfield and we needed it to rebound and it wasn't quite there.

Good observations there. It is noticeable that we lack speed around the contest. The ability to break lines and apply pressure with speed is just not there. Walsh gets so much ball but does not have the breakaway speed. It was noticeable on Friday night how he received the ball but ended up kicking it around the corner as he does not have the breakaway speed to get clear and deliver more effectively. Cripps is in the same category.

 

[Earls Smother]

Good observations there. It is noticeable that we lack speed around the contest. The ability to break lines and apply pressure with speed is just not there. Walsh gets so much ball but does not have the breakaway speed. It was noticeable on Friday night how he received the ball but ended up kicking it around the corner as he does not have the breakaway speed to get clear and deliver more effectively. Cripps is in the same category.

I'm only replying to your post as it's the last one. There have been a number of comments on speed around the contest, with arguments for both sides.

What I would ask is, which team would have won the game if you swapped Nick Daicos with Hewett? They both win the ball, they both have good hands, they are both good kicks off either foot, they both had the ball more than 30 times. Why did one of them have such an influence on winning the game and the other was a battler?

At those continuous stoppages on their HFF towards the end, who did we have to run on to the ball and outsprint their opponent if it was knocked forward of the pack? We just don't have the right balance in the middle to match the best sides. This is not a criticism of Hewett personally, it is as a component of our midfield whole. It's why Kennedy wasn't in the 22.

We can get away with at times and you get the usual comments from those who think it isn't an issue. It is absolutely an issue and it is worse when some blokes play sore, which is more likely off shorter breaks.

We are very close to being a premiership side and in IMO desperately need 2 things. A replacement for the insipid, bumbling, ponderous 200cm of incompetence that meanders around our backline, and a mid with elite burst speed.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

I like the supporters who want to say “all I want to see is effort” when we get flogged but will complain the world is ending when we lose a close one.

We have issues to work on, effort not one of them.

If brutal, quality tackling/gang tackling (which either locks in the ball or gets us a HTB decision) is an outcome of effort, then Coll pantsed us big time in that area. That, on its own would've won us the game...I have no doubt...none whatsoever

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Yeap - playing charlie higher up works better for us - he lowers the eye and is a very good penetrating kick and deadly accurate

Charlie was putrid in the last. His inability to even halve a number of contests was a significant reason why we were beaten.
Lacks intent at the moment. Some say he’s carrying something, we’ll maybe so, but when your out there you’re out there.
If you can run and jump for a mark with intent then it should be expected in your defensive efforts also.
For all the miraculous, his ordinary is very ordinary.
His kicking a prime example, for every elite kick, it has a scrubber partner.
He needs to bridge the gap between his extraordinary and his ordinary.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Used to be my one & only all time favourite Filth player.

Not anymore …

Up. Yours. Daicos.


Poor form

Reckon neutral supporters (even those who don't particularly like Carlton) feel the same way

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Reckon neutral supporters (even those who don't particularly like Carlton) feel the same way

Really………

Open window to the box, most likely coping advice from the outside mutants about his sons “ability” and other “things” all night.

His son seals the game for the team he obviously adores, has played a legendary career with, and he gives them back a bit of “get that up ya”……

Seriously, the world we live in now……..

 

[blues4flag]

Really………

Open window to the box, most likely coping advice from the outside mutants about his sons “ability” and other “things” all night.

His son seals the game for the team he obviously adores, has played a legendary career with, and he gives them back a bit of “get that up ya”……

Seriously, the world we live in now……..

Yep. Don't really like Daicos but if that's the worst of it...

We all carry on like muppets at times, emotions are high.

 

[blues4flag]

If brutal, quality tackling/gang tackling (which either locks in the ball or gets us a HTB decision) is an outcome of effort, then Coll pantsed us big time in that area. That, on its own would've won us the game...I have no doubt...none whatsoever

In this case, it was an outcome of numbers at the footy. They had +2 or +3 more often than not. Was that strategy or effort? Based on Voss's presser, sounds like the former.

 

[Arr0w]

Many moments or aspects that we can dissect that work well and those that don't. This week was different to previous games

I thought our intensity and pressure was subpar, compared to the Pies

That difference, played out with how clean they were with more time to assess options, an area we struggled with and our composure was poor

That's an easy fix if the players as a collective have better buy-in this week

As for Voss, I admire that he is sticking fat in trying to evolve our gameplan, but it's a fine line if you can't blend the finished product and continue to have a foot in each camp

Everyone is aware that our strength is being brutal at the stoppage, but the turnover game is more sustainable

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I was shocked to see that from Peter, I had quite a bit to do with him and his family a few years back, really out of character from what I know of him.

I think he would be embarrassed by that and his interview with BT in the rooms after the game.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

I'm only replying to your post as it's the last one. There have been a number of comments on speed around the contest, with arguments for both sides.

What I would ask is, which team would have won the game if you swapped Nick Daicos with Hewett? They both win the ball, they both have good hands, they are both good kicks off either foot, they both had the ball more than 30 times. Why did one of them have such an influence on winning the game and the other was a battler?

At those continuous stoppages on their HFF towards the end, who did we have to run on to the ball and outsprint their opponent if it was knocked forward of the pack? We just don't have the right balance in the middle to match the best sides. This is not a criticism of Hewett personally, it is as a component of our midfield whole. It's why Kennedy wasn't in the 22.

We can get away with at times and you get the usual comments from those who think it isn't an issue. It is absolutely an issue and it is worse when some blokes play sore, which is more likely off shorter breaks.

We are very close to being a premiership side and in IMO desperately need 2 things. A replacement for the insipid, bumbling, ponderous 200cm of incompetence that meanders around our backline, and a mid with elite burst speed.

Re our lack of burst mids, agree 100%.

Drafting Wilson helps long term, but I wonder if Cincotta could be developed for this purpose right now. From what I’m reading in VFL world, he has been used as a mid more this year with good effect too.

Also think it’s about time young Durds is used more through the middle, especially if dropped back to the 2’s for whatever reason.

 

[agro]

Our poor centre bounce set ups were highlighted and exposed on “Sunday Footy Show” this morning- we didn’t try to counteract it in any way at all - we pig headedly did the same thing over and over again - highlights our poor tactical nous and coaching.

 

[JJBagger]

Our poor centre bounce set ups were highlighted and exposed on “Sunday Footy Show” this morning- we didn’t try to counteract it in any way at all - we pig headedly did the same thing over and over again - highlights our poor tactical nous and coaching.

Harsh. We had no right to fear Collingwood's midfield. I think our fumbling more than anything cost us clearances from the front of stoppage several times. We don't fumble, we comfortably win the clearance battle

 

[carlton_99]

Do Pies fan get a ping alert when Peter is mentioned somewhere?

 

[agro]

Harsh. We had no right to fear Collingwood's midfield. I think our fumbling more than anything cost us clearances from the front of stoppage several times. We don't fumble, we comfortably win the clearance battle

The evidence was there for all to see - we weren’t allowed to get to the ball - fumbling had nothing to do with it.

 

[JJBagger]

The evidence was there for all to see - we weren’t allowed to get to the ball - fumbling had nothing to do with it.

I counted at least 7 times where we got first hands to the ball, yet lost the clearance