Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[ScrappyDo]

Reporting harassment is a vital part of building a case against someone.

The experts actually state that changing bail laws for domestic abusers so that they are actually held for a decent time is a key. At present someone can be arrested then back in the house within a few hours.

Women need time to find a safe place to escape to. Which is not an easy thing to do.

No to Thomas.

I'm very in favour of that, but it still needs to be caught earlier. Once there is a domestic incident serious enough for police intervention it's always a role of the dice as to what has happened prior to the cops actually showing up at the door.
It's also a separate discussion as to the psyco with no history that randomly kills like in Ballarat recently. That guy isn't gonna be stopped by a stand against violence initiative.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Report it then.

I think it’s far more damaging to say what you’re saying than me calling you a moron for saying it but I think we’ve established you battle with that sort of comprehension.

Yes it's a battle for comprehension. I'll leave you to it.

 

[phantom13]

I'm very in favour of that, but it still needs to be caught earlier. Once there is a domestic incident serious enough for police intervention it's always a role of the dice as to what has happened prior to the cops actually showing up at the door.
It's also a separate discussion as to the psyco with no history that randomly kills like in Ballarat recently. That guy isn't gonna be stopped by a stand against violence initiative.

Real turn from an hour ago when you said she was a moron for giving him her number and then not just blocking his number.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I'm very in favour of that, but it still needs to be caught earlier. Once there is a domestic incident serious enough for police intervention it's always a role of the dice as to what has happened prior to the cops actually showing up at the door.
It's also a separate discussion as to the psyco with no history that randomly kills like in Ballarat recently. That guy isn't gonna be stopped by a stand against violence initiative.

Suggest you listen to the criminologist who was on Q&A recently...

'How dare you': The ex-cop who lectured politicians on failing women — and how to save more lives

Criminologist and former NSW Police detective Vincent Hurley, who went viral lecturing politicians on Q+A, says there are immediate solutions to keep women and children safe.

www.abc.net.au

Being caught earlier is a great idea but something that no one has really provided an effective way to do. I work in education & you occasionally come across a kid who you just know is a predator. There's literally nothing you can do... he hasn't committed a crime (yet). When he does it will most like be minor... and then it escalates.

There's no intervention programs and unless schools are cashed up, some of the great external programs that teach healthy masculinity, like the Man Cave & Tomorrow Man, are out of reach.

It's up to the rest of of us, who find this behaviour beyond disgusting, to teach our boys, their mates and role model what healthy relationships truly look like. Not to mention hold grown men that we know to account...

It starts with not excusing or downplaying shithouse behaviour.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Real turn from an hour ago when you said she was a moron for giving him her number and then not just blocking his number.

Yeah well that turned out not to be the case, but the point is still true. You can go on not thinking about the issue and suppressing discussion with the other lemmings. Whatever makes you feel good.

 

[phantom13]

Yeah well that turned out not to be the case, but the point is still true. You can go on not thinking about the issue and suppressing discussion with the other lemmings. Whatever makes you feel good.

Which point is still true? You havent made one aside from "shes to blame too".

You waded in with no facts and cast judgement on the victim and now youre taking shots at others who see your points as outdated and problematic under the guise of being better informed and aware of the issue.

If youve got a better point to make then make it, no one is supressing conversation, simply pointing out how ****ed someone saying "she should have just blocked his number" is.

So whats your point? You seem to know way more about it than anyone else so enlighten us.

 

[littlecreatures]

I'm very in favour of that, but it still needs to be caught earlier. Once there is a domestic incident serious enough for police intervention it's always a role of the dice as to what has happened prior to the cops actually showing up at the door.
It's also a separate discussion as to the psyco with no history that randomly kills like in Ballarat recently. That guy isn't gonna be stopped by a stand against violence initiative.

Is this you Scrappy?

 

[Yawkey way]

Suggest you listen to the criminologist who was on Q&A recently...

'How dare you': The ex-cop who lectured politicians on failing women — and how to save more lives

Criminologist and former NSW Police detective Vincent Hurley, who went viral lecturing politicians on Q+A, says there are immediate solutions to keep women and children safe.

www.abc.net.au

Being caught earlier is a great idea but something that no one has really provided an effective way to do. I work in education & you occasionally come across a kid who you just know is a predator. There's literally nothing you can do... he hasn't committed a crime (yet). When he does it will most like be minor... and then it escalates.

There's no intervention programs and unless schools are cashed up, some of the great external programs that teach healthy masculinity, like the Man Cave & Tomorrow Man, are out of reach.

It's up to the rest of of us, who find this behaviour beyond disgusting, to teach our boys, their mates and role model what healthy relationships truly look like. Not to mention hold grown men that we know to account...

It starts with not excusing or downplaying shithouse behaviour.

Yeah that’s a good read, my daughter teaches criminology amongst other subjects at uni. It’s a complex problem but some things are really obvious and need to be addressed asap.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Suggest you listen to the criminologist who was on Q&A recently...

'How dare you': The ex-cop who lectured politicians on failing women — and how to save more lives

Criminologist and former NSW Police detective Vincent Hurley, who went viral lecturing politicians on Q+A, says there are immediate solutions to keep women and children safe.

www.abc.net.au

Being caught earlier is a great idea but something that no one has really provided an effective way to do. I work in education & you occasionally come across a kid who you just know is a predator. There's literally nothing you can do... he hasn't committed a crime (yet). When he does it will most like be minor... and then it escalates.

There's no intervention programs and unless schools are cashed up, some of the great external programs that teach healthy masculinity, like the Man Cave & Tomorrow Man, are out of reach.

It's up to the rest of of us, who find this behaviour beyond disgusting, to teach our boys, their mates and role model what healthy relationships truly look like. Not to mention hold grown men that we know to account...

It starts with not excusing or downplaying shithouse behaviour.

I might be a dinosaur as described but at least in my sphere of existence the non-exceptence of that behaviour has existed since childhood, and prior since l can remember my long dead father telling men of that ilk to go and piss up a flagpole. I tend to think "society" has got the message now for a long time and the violent are significantly marginalised, which in itself is a problem since it's less in public view.
But as demonstrated here you can't discuss it without the outragists crapping all over it.
We've always opreated on a crime followed by punishment model which can only have limited success. How to access those people before crisis point should be firmly on the agenda. I understand it's not easy and involves difficult concepts like humanising potential offenders but unless there's a systemic shift we'll keep going in circles.

A few years back l heard a fella call in to a child sexuaal abuse talk-back segment on the wireless. Said he'd been seeking psychological treatment and assistance coz he'd been having paedophilic tendencies but was turnd away from all practitioners and gov't services. I found that pretty gobsmacking TBH but it shows we're not set up for crime prevention.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Is this you Scrappy?

Seems to be the case LC. Phantom can fill in the hole when l stop twitching.

 

[ScrappyDo]

So whats your point?

Last one.

As it was his ex partner she's obviously not done so as to catch him re-offending, otherwise she probably would have. Good.
The point which you're so at pains to avoid is that women should not be associating with Tarryn Thomas for very public and obvious reasons.
If they still choose to do so, l will forever call them stupid. IDGAF if you find that offensive.

 

[littlecreatures]

I might be a dinosaur as described but at least in my sphere of existence the non-exceptence of that behaviour has existed since childhood, and prior since l can remember my long dead father telling men of that ilk to go and piss up a flagpole. I tend to think "society" has got the message now for a long time and the violent are significantly marginalised, which in itself is a problem since it's less in public view.
But as demonstrated here you can't discuss it without the outragists crapping all over it.
We've always opreated on a crime followed by punishment model which can only have limited success. How to access those people before crisis point should be firmly on the agenda. I understand it's not easy and involves difficult concepts like humanising potential offenders but unless there's a systemic shift we'll keep going in circles.

A few years back l heard a fella call in to a child sexuaal abuse talk-back segment on the wireless. Said he'd been seeking psychological treatment and assistance coz he'd been having paedophilic tendencies but was turnd away from all practitioners and gov't services. I found that pretty gobsmacking TBH but it shows we're not set up for crime prevention.

From someone that’s worked frontline across a breadth of these sort of issues, I find some of these points unfathomable and also concerning. Family and domestic violence consumes significant resources as does sexual offences against children.

Without understanding the context of this particular person who called a talk back segment, those displaying paedophilic tendencies don’t exactly get refused intervention or treatment, in fact it’d warrant a legislative response likely from multiple agencies.

I would suggest getting out of this one, while you’re somewhat ahead or probably more appropriately, not as far behind.

The level of support provided to Taryn Thomas, which comparatively has probably been earlier than other offenders, highlights just providing resources doesn’t always achieve reform, as you’ve indicated might be the case.

 

[BrutThough]

Last one.

As it was his ex partner she's obviously not done so as to catch him re-offending, otherwise she probably would have. Good.
The point which you're so at pains to avoid is that women should not be associating with Tarryn Thomas for very public and obvious reasons.
If they still choose to do so, l will forever call them stupid. IDGAF if you find that offensive.

She may not have known about Tarryn's history before it was too late.

To put any blame towards her in the situation is ridiculous and harmful. It's the equivalent of blaming a women's outfit for her being raped.

 

[ScrappyDo]

From someone that’s worked frontline across a breadth of these sort of issues, I find some of these points unfathomable and also concerning. Family and domestic violence consumes significant resources as does sexual offences against children.

Without understanding the context of this particular person who called a talk back segment, those displaying paedophilic tendencies don’t exactly get refused intervention or treatment, in fact it’d warrant a legislative response likely from multiple agencies.

I would suggest getting out of this one, while you’re somewhat ahead or probably more appropriately, not as far behind.

The level of support provided to Taryn Thomas, which comparatively has probably been earlier than other offenders, highlights just providing resources doesn’t always achieve reform, as you’ve indicated might be the case.

I don't mind the pile-on LC, it's really just one poster. What l can't stand is the self-righteous straw man attack from someone who had nothing to add other than their own outrage. The more reasoned have contributed some good material and viewpoints (and gifs) like yourself, and it just goes to prove that it's possible if only the idiots would give it some oxygen. And l still think this is a deeper issue than people want to face.

 

[phantom13]

I might be a dinosaur as described but at least in my sphere of existence the non-exceptence of that behaviour has existed since childhood, and prior since l can remember my long dead father telling men of that ilk to go and piss up a flagpole. I tend to think "society" has got the message now for a long time and the violent are significantly marginalised, which in itself is a problem since it's less in public view.
But as demonstrated here you can't discuss it without the outragists crapping all over it.
We've always opreated on a crime followed by punishment model which can only have limited success. How to access those people before crisis point should be firmly on the agenda. I understand it's not easy and involves difficult concepts like humanising potential offenders but unless there's a systemic shift we'll keep going in circles.

A few years back l heard a fella call in to a child sexuaal abuse talk-back segment on the wireless. Said he'd been seeking psychological treatment and assistance coz he'd been having paedophilic tendencies but was turnd away from all practitioners and gov't services. I found that pretty gobsmacking TBH but it shows we're not set up for crime prevention.

Last one.

As it was his ex partner she's obviously not done so as to catch him re-offending, otherwise she probably would have. Good.
The point which you're so at pains to avoid is that women should not be associating with Tarryn Thomas for very public and obvious reasons.
If they still choose to do so, l will forever call them stupid. IDGAF if you find that offensive.

Im gonna respond on both these points because i think theres some cross over.

Firstly, a bit like littlecreatures i work in health and specifically in mental health so what youre flagging in the first post is pretty innaccurate. Humanized or not there are programs, campaigns, workshops and access to help at a range of levels for perpetrators. Granted they are pretty severely underfunded and underutilized but the point you seem to be missing (which ties into the second post) is that we dont JUST need one or the other. I have never, at any point, indicated that we shouldnt try to intervene before the crimes are comitted. Early intervention, mens mental health etc etc. are all professional and personal passion projects for me, so with all due respect, piss off calling me an outragists for prioritizing victims and potential victims over perps or potential perps. Both need adressing but one needs more addressing. The funding and comittments from the mental health royal comission 3 years ago alone dedicated more money for capital and operational funding over 5 years than has been dedicated to victim outcomes in about 50 years. Again, your lack of knowledge and critical thinking on the matter would indicate you should read and listen alot more than you speak.

Lastly, the bolded is ******* cooked mate.

At what level do you think shes "choosing" (your words) to be harassed. Even if she wasnt his ex girlfriend she might not follow AFL, she might not know a ******* thing about him, she might have just passed on her number because he seemed nice, a friend might have passed on her number, he might have found her on social media.

The level and breadth of assumptions you have made about the VICTIM is actually ****ed.

Try, for a second, to think of this victim as someone you know and care about, and then tell me youd say to them "well youre stupid for getting involved".

Would you say that to the family of any of the women killed by their husbands or partners? Cause on begets the other.

 

[ScrappyDo]

She may not have known about Tarryn's history before it was too late.

To put any blame towards her in the situation is ridiculous and harmful. It's the equivalent of blaming a women's outfit for her being raped.

And that's fair. The context was that it was someone recent other than his ex which has since been clarified so it's a moot point.
Preaching some personal responsibility isn't victim blaming either. If l enter a property with a known dangerous dog on site and proceed to get bitten, then I'm to blame.

 

[phantom13]

I don't mind the pile-on LC, it's really just one poster. What l can't stand is the self-righteous straw man attack from someone who had nothing to add other than their own outrage.

Its alot more than one person who disagrees with you, im just the only one not taking it easy and im not taking it easy because your narrow minded rational disguised as intellectualism is a prevailing issue that is taking hold from young men and allowing alot of hatred of women to fester. It needs to be adressed and sternly to change the culture towards women.

Theres also no straw man, you very pointedly said you think the women have a portion of blame for not identifying and walking away from violent men. Youve actually now done it numerous times.

You continue to posit that its a complex issue, which it absolutely is, but also debase it to schoolyard advice of "victims should just walk away" while bemoaning a lack of access to help and treatment for men.

BOTH are issues to be sure but your focus is misguided and wrong and your comments on Tarryns victim(s) are appalling.

 

[phantom13]

And that's fair. The context was that it was someone recent other than his ex which has since been clarified so it's a moot point.
Preaching some personal responsibility isn't victim blaming either. If l enter a property with a known dangerous dog on site and proceed to get bitten, then I'm to blame.

To take your insanely ham fisted analogy to the extreme here.

Did she know the dog was dangerous? Had she actually removed herself from the yard but the dog came into the street? Has she reported the dog to animal control and the dog has persisted to follow her?

If all those circumstances were to the victims favour would she still have personal responsibility? (hint, in this instance and MANY others, all those things are, and yet the harassment will still persist and often worsen into stalking and assault).

All those details were also readily available to you BEFORE you said she was a moron too. Your personal bias here isnt just wrong, its dumb.

 

[ScrappyDo]

At what level do you think shes "choosing" (your words) to be harassed.

This is the entire basis of your continued assault and it's something l never said or inferred.
If you believe it's smart or even ok for a young woman to associate with Thomas after all that's been publicised then l don't know how to counter that point of view.

 

[ScrappyDo]

you very pointedly said you think the women have a portion of blame for not identifying and walking away from violent men. Youve actually now done it numerous times.

You continue to posit that its a complex issue, which it absolutely is, but also debase it to schoolyard advice of "victims should just walk away" while bemoaning a lack of access to help and treatment for men.

I also never said or inferred these things. But you keep going.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I might be a dinosaur as described but at least in my sphere of existence the non-exceptence of that behaviour has existed since childhood, and prior since l can remember my long dead father telling men of that ilk to go and piss up a flagpole. I tend to think "society" has got the message now for a long time and the violent are significantly marginalised, which in itself is a problem since it's less in public view.
But as demonstrated here you can't discuss it without the outragists crapping all over it.
We've always opreated on a crime followed by punishment model which can only have limited success. How to access those people before crisis point should be firmly on the agenda. I understand it's not easy and involves difficult concepts like humanising potential offenders but unless there's a systemic shift we'll keep going in circles.

A few years back l heard a fella call in to a child sexuaal abuse talk-back segment on the wireless. Said he'd been seeking psychological treatment and assistance coz he'd been having paedophilic tendencies but was turnd away from all practitioners and gov't services. I found that pretty gobsmacking TBH but it shows we're not set up for crime prevention.

We have discussed it.

Your original post was just very poorly thought out & multiple people called it out.

The shift is things like victim blaming now being something that shouldn’t be accepted.

If you think I’m an ‘outragist’ over this topic then I’m happy to cop it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[phantom13]

Wow, she must have one of those pre digital phones where you can't block someone's number. And one of those non-existent telco's that can't do it for you when you ask them to.
Spare me...

Thomas is clearly a complete moron. As is whatever woman that gave him her phone number.

I'll step back and preface it with "if" the she gave him her number then she's a moron. But given the media around him l find it hard to fathom that a young woman wouldn't be aware or made aware.
Perhaps Thomas obtained her number from a 3rd party but the fact he's not in a police cell right now probably means it's historical. .

Last one.

As it was his ex partner she's obviously not done so as to catch him re-offending, otherwise she probably would have. Good.
The point which you're so at pains to avoid is that women should not be associating with Tarryn Thomas for very public and obvious reasons.
If they still choose to do so, l will forever call them stupid. IDGAF if you find that offensive.

Preaching some personal responsibility isn't victim blaming either. If l enter a property with a known dangerous dog on site and proceed to get bitten, then I'm to blame.

This is the entire basis of your continued assault and it's something l never said or inferred.
If you believe it's smart or even ok for a young woman to associate with Thomas after all that's been publicised then l don't know how to counter that point of view.

You actuallly quite clearly said it, almost verbatim, numerous times, ive put them altogether above.

Its also not the entire basis, i just posted a thesis on mental health, early intervention, government funding and victim outcomes.

The primary issue with your point is that its based off this (your quote)


"If you believe it's smart or even ok for a young woman to associate with Thomas after all that's been publicised"


1- As has been clearly demonstrated numerous times, in this case, which you easily could have read about before commenting, she associated with him prior to the publically noted incidents
2- Not every woman would know this story or who Tarryn is, not everyone is a football fan. You might think his notoriety is large but that doesnt account for every woman
3- Even they did, he could likely charm his way out of it, because in spite of the multiple (and from many accounts the number is in the dozens if not hundreds of women hes allegedly harrassed) he has never been convicted of anything

North midfielder Thomas faces court, avoids conviction

North Melbourne's Tarryn Thomas ordered to pay $1000 to charity after facing court on Tuesday

www.afl.com.au

"NORTH Melbourne player Tarryn Thomas has avoided a criminal conviction for threatening to distribute intimate videos of his former partner."

Now im sure you dont need me to detail out the difficulty for victims of DV to get actual action but given he can simply lie and say it was one misunderstanding and the courts never convicted him isnt it just possible that some people might believe him? Not to mention he has a number of VERY public figures supporting his image rehab.


There really is no clearer way to demonstrate your victim blaming and that being the base of your argument is just... inconceivable to me, all i can say is im glad most on this forum and elsewhere dont share your antiquated views.

 

[ScrappyDo]

We have discussed it.

Your original post was just very poorly thought out & multiple people called it out.

The shift is things like victim blaming now being something that shouldn’t be accepted.

If you think I’m an ‘outragist’ over this topic then I’m happy to cop it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There's only one outragist going off, and you're not he.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Change the fcuking subject. Stop clogging the feed

Probably shift it to the random discussion thread ay phantom13 ?

 

[phantom13]

Probably shift it to the random discussion thread ay phantom13 ?

I’ve got nothing left to say.