Training 2024 training updates.

[TheGreatGrundy]

Has Slobbo stopped drinking?

Judging from the photo looking up at him from below, I'd say he is drinking more than ever. What an awful article. What is the point of examining players then clearing them to continue, only to have those who seem to know more than the doctors (without actually knowing anything) insisting he should have retired?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

One of the main problems with modern debates is people look at who says it, not what they say.

Which parts of the article are wrong?

I’m glad you asked.

But he shouldn’t be playing footy.

This is a statement made by an unqualified person with no specific information about Murphy’s neurological state or function. Hence it is wrong.

Here is a bloke who has had 10 concussions through his junior and senior footy career, is at risk of long-term brain damage with further head knocks and the AFL, the AFLPA and most importantly Collingwood are putting him in a position where long-term damage is a possibility.

All AFL players are at risk of long-term brain damage with further head knocks. Collingwood are putting all their players in such a position, to the extent that they are listing and selecting them to train and play.

Ultimately, it was his decision to play on after suffering yet another concussion in last year’s Grand Final, and certainly the AFL, the AFLPA and the Pies did not deter him.

Perhaps they should have.

It’s not their role to deter him, it’s their role to seek the best available advice and they did so. Collingwood is a football club. If you or I were diagnosed with brain cancer would you call up the club to see what they advised you to do in your daily life? Preposterous.

Thus, a bunch of experts said, despite the increased risk of long-term impairment, that everything was hunky dory.

After stating the advice that was provided to Murphy was not made publicly available, Robbo states what he thinks the advice was. In buffoon-speak.

Clearly, 10 concussions is not the cut off number for Murphy. What is then? 12? 13? 20?

Assumes there is a “cut off”. Wrong again.

The Pies conceded there was an “awareness and acceptance of risk associated with future concussions”, yet still agreed Murphy could play on.

There is a risk to everyone playing the game, and therefore it is up to the player to determine whether the risk is acceptable.

In essence, the Pies have allowed Murphy to roll the dice when the club shouldn’t have put the dice in his hands in the first place.

Robbo thinks we should not just ignore expert advice the AFL makes available, but not let him access it in the first place.

To allow Murphy to continue to play arguably sends a wrong message to all levels of football.

The message is that all players are individuals and can be assessed as such based on scientific testing, rather than the baseless opining of ignorant drunkards in the media.

That it’s OK if you’ve suffered 10 concussions because the AFL said it was OK.

That’s not what they said. Robbo already stated the results weren’t made public.

The AFL’s HIA testing, which is completed for potentially concussed players during a match, also initially failed Murphy.

Post Grand Final last year, Murphy said: “I passed the test, but I ruled myself out. I had a bit of blurry vision, and with my concussions, I kind of get them delayed. I know the concussion test off by heart now … I’ve done that a couple of times now, where I’ve passed it, then we’ve ruled me out.”

Concussion symptoms can present after a delay. This does not mean an initial test “failed” Murphy, any more than an ED x-ray of a scaphoid injury “fails” to identify a fracture, or a RAT “fails” to confirm a COVID infection 5 mins after contact with a carrier. The test has limitations and knowledgeable practitioners work within them.

 

[Kappa]

I’m glad you asked.


This is a statement made by an unqualified person with no specific information about Murphy’s neurological state or function. Hence it is wrong.


All AFL players are at risk of long-term brain damage with further head knocks. Collingwood are putting all their players in such a position, to the extent that they are listing and selecting them to train and play.


It’s not their role to deter him, it’s their role to seek the best available advice and they did so. Collingwood is a football club. If you or I were diagnosed with brain cancer would you call up the club to see what they advised you to do in your daily life? Preposterous.


After stating the advice that was provided to Murphy was not made publicly available, Robbo states what he thinks the advice was. In buffoon-speak.


Assumes there is a “cut off”. Wrong again.


There is a risk to everyone playing the game, and therefore it is up to the player to determine whether the risk is acceptable.


Robbo thinks we should not just ignore expert advice the AFL makes available, but not let him access it in the first place.


The message is that all players are individuals and can be assessed as such based on scientific testing, rather than the baseless opining of ignorant drunkards in the media.


That’s not what they said. Robbo already stated the results weren’t made public.


Concussion symptoms can present after a delay. This does not mean an initial test “failed” Murphy, any more than an ED x-ray of a scaphoid injury “fails” to identify a fracture. The test has limitations and knowledgeable practitioners work within them.

So you're not concerned about Murphy's long term health? You think he'll be fine if he continues on his current path of a couple of concussions per year?

1: being unqualified doesn't make someone wrong.
2: It is Collingwood and the AFL's responsibility to provide a reasonable duty of care to all their players. The courts will decide in time if clubs and the AFL have met that duty of care when it comes to head knocks.
3: Didn't the media report the concussion panel had cleared Murphy to continue playing?
4: We dont have proper tests to measure CTE and long term impacts of head knocks
5: Club doctors allowed Murphy to return back to the field after being smashed in the head at full speed and then laying on the ground clearly dazed. Clearly that is a failure and you can't deny that.

Thanks for the detailed response though I appreciate it, I just agree to disagree with some points.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

The only thing experts are in agreement over is a lot of hits to the brain is very bad for your long term health.

"How many concussions are too many?​

Experts say there’s no “magic number.” Mark Halstead, the director of the Sports Concussion Program at Washington University in St. Louis, said you could put 10 concussion experts in a room and get 10 different answers to the question. For him, it depends on the patient, the severity of symptoms and their medical history."


So you can actually argue against experts, especially when other experts disagree with them.

Do you seriously believe Murphy will be fine if he keeps getting smashed in the head multiple times per season ?

You don't actually support Carlton, do you? Sometimes it seems you are more against than for us. Why do you insist on arguing against medical expertise that has ruled in Murphy's favour? Do you know something that the doctors, the club. Murphy and us supporters don't? Because it sure seems that you do, and if you don't, why not just accept the medical ruling and move on?

 

[Kappa]

You don't actually support Carlton, do you? Sometimes it seems you are more against than for us. Why do you insist on arguing against medical expertise that has ruled in Murphy's favour? Do you know something that the doctors, the club. Murphy and us supporters don't? Because it sure seems that you do, and if you don't, why not just accept the medical ruling and move on?

Lmao, this isn't about "for" or "against" the club, it's about a young man's health. Did you watch the report on retired NRL players dealing with early onset dementia and other brain issues from their NRL days? It's horrific. You wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy, let alone a premiership hero.

I've read lots of reports from top concussion experts that say people like Murphy are in serious trouble long term. That is backed up by what I've witnessed from ex-boxers, ex-NRL players and other ex AFL players who have all had CTE or other massive brain issues post footy.

 

[Markfs]

4: We dont have proper tests to measure CTE and long term impacts of head knocks
.

"We dont know if you're going to experience CTE in the future, but we're banning you anyway."

 

[The Royal Sampler]

So you're not concerned about Murphy's long term health?

Yes I am. However my concern from the point of view of an uninformed member of the public, should not outweigh Murphy’s right to make decisions concerning his livelihood based upon the best possible advice from a panel of experts with access to Murphy’s confidential medical information.

You think he'll be fine if he continues on his current path of a couple of concussions per year?

People take all sorts of risks every minute of every day. They are all relative. It is not for me to decide what rights and freedoms everyone else should be able to enjoy.

1: being unqualified doesn't make someone wrong.

No, but it does make you more likely to be wrong than a panel of experts, especially when they have access to Murphy, and Murphy’s medical history, both of which you lack. Not only that, but Robbo felt comfortable grossly misrepresenting the panel’s position with phrases such as “hunky dory”

2: It is Collingwood and the AFL's responsibility to provide a reasonable duty of care to all their players. The courts will decide in time if clubs and the AFL have met that duty of care when it comes to head knocks.

I’m not a lawyer so I won’t venture an opinion, which is another difference between Robbo and I.

3: Didn't the media report the concussion panel had cleared Murphy to continue playing?

I haven’t seen that published. However choosing not to recommend that Murphy immediately cease playing Aussie Rules is not necessarily the same as “clearing” him. They may have merely presented a summation of the risks Murphy faces, taking into account his history and testing, and said “this is what we think the risk is, it is very real, these could be the consequences and they need to be very carefully considered before making an informed decision”. But Robbo would rather say “the AFL is ok with it” and “Collingwood… shouldn’t have put the dice in his hand”.

4: We dont have proper tests to measure CTE and long term impacts of head knocks

CTE is a separate condition to post-concussive syndrome and shouldn’t be lumped in the same basket anyway.

5: Club doctors allowed Murphy to return back to the field after being smashed in the head at full speed and then laying on the ground clearly dazed. Clearly that is a failure and you can't deny that.

Yes, I can. Experimentation is the basis of science. The test is the best available and it did not show evidence of a concussion. He did not display any tonic posturing on the field which would make the SCAT test moot. Then symptoms emerged, as they are known to do in delayed fashion, and he reported them so the appropriate decision was made.

 

[manicpie]

The dementia aspect has me concerned. I've been knocked out multiple times. I must admit, I don't have any of the symptoms of CTE, but it still scares the shit out of me

 

[Markfs]

The dementia aspect has me concerned. I've been knocked out multiple times. I must admit, I don't have any of the symptoms of CTE, but it still scares the s**t out of me

Then make a personal choice to stop doing those activities that get you knocked out. However, you might get so much enjoyment from those activities that you chose to continue.

btw. mating with someone can cause you untold stress, anxiety and possible suicide. I think the practice should be stopped.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The dementia aspect has me concerned. I've been knocked out multiple times. I must admit, I don't have any of the symptoms of CTE, but it still scares the s**t out of me

“Concern” is where anyone without specific, confidential information on Murphy’s condition should sit.

If it makes you feel any better, a few concussions does not appear to significantly increase your likelihood of CTE.

 

[Harry O]

Depression alcoholism and loneliness much bigger impacts on possible dementia

 

[cityslick1]

I can't see Nick Daicos/JDG without thinking about Beams/Barham.

I mean, they're obviously joking around. Or are they?

they were literally out for dinner together that night... all smiles... pondering how they will dominate opposition teams this year.

& havent all the industry critics of JDG gone v quiet since the finals series... including Robbo, who said hes nowhere near Dustin Martin, and is more Cam Zurhaar.

New top 50 players lists are out, and what do you know... Jordy in the top 15 - 20, with Dusty in the 30's. Zurhaar nowhere to be seen

Any apologies to Jordy though?? no chance.........

 

[Markfs]

The dementia aspect has me concerned. I've been knocked out multiple times. I must admit, I don't have any of the symptoms of CTE, but it still scares the s**t out of me

Late mail is that I've talked to a couple of doctors who say you should be ok so we're going to make you play sport again.....for your own good....you dont have any choice in it. We feel that you need the activity so we're doing to make you do it. We have a duty of care for your overall health....

 

[sam_e]

The dementia aspect has me concerned. I've been knocked out multiple times. I must admit, I don't have any of the symptoms of CTE, but it still scares the s**t out of me

fructose and high fructose corn syrup

 

[Markfs]

they were literally out for dinner together that night... all smiles... pondering how they will dominate opposition teams this year.

& havent all the industry critics of JDG have gone v quiet since the finals series... including Robbo, who said hes nowhere near Dustin Martin, and is more Cam Zurhaar.

New top 50 players lists are out, and what do you know... Jordy in the top 15 - 20, with Dusty in the 30's. Zurhaar nowhere to be seen

Any apologies to Jordy though?? no chance.........

i hope jordan leaves the game with zero apologies, zero rankings and 5 premierships....

 

[Black_White]

Late mail is that I've talked to a couple of doctors who say you should be ok so we're going to make you play sport again.....for your own good....you dont have any choice in it. We feel that you need the activity so we're doing to make you do it. We have a duty of care for your overall health....

Well, that’s a whole lot of bull.
No matter what the medical profession says, there is no “we will make you do it” involved.
Do do so would open up a whole legal can of worms.
At least comment in reality.

 

[Markfs]

i read yesterday that picking your nose can give you dementia.....it seems that bugs get inside to the brain via the nose. My doctor has wired my nose up with a cage so that I cant pick it.....for my own good.

However, I've told him that i'm feeling suicidal because i'm no longer attractive to women...or should i say, even less attractive..... he gave me 5 courses of pills

 

[Markfs]

Well, that’s a whole lot of bull.
No matter what the medical profession says, there is no “we will make you do it” involved.
Do do so would open up a whole legal can of worms.
At least comment in reality.

i've got the apple vision pro on....

 

[sideswipe]

I'm having a discussion, I haven't personally attacked anyone, unlike you.

You aren’t having a discussion. You are continually expressing a myopic view based on no actual knowledge of the personal situation of the player without the capacity to make an informed judgement even if you were equipped with that knowledge.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Late mail is that I've talked to a couple of doctors who say you should be ok so we're going to make you play sport again.....for your own good....you dont have any choice in it. We feel that you need the activity so we're doing to make you do it. We have a duty of care for your overall health....

With Robbo singing from the hymn book of “this appears to make sense on face value, so I’m going to try to impose my uninformed opinion on others”, I can’t wait for his article on how Murphy should be made to wear a helmet on the field to prevent future concussions.

He probably doesn’t fly interstate because it’s too dangerous, so drives instead.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

However, I've told him that i'm feeling suicidal because i'm no longer attractive to women...or should i say, even less attractive.....

I reached those lofty heights without having to resort to picking my nose.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Depression alcoholism and loneliness much bigger impacts on possible dementia

So if we can’t eliminate all possible causes of dementia, we shouldn’t do anything at all? This is the wrong take at the opposite extreme.

 

[Markfs]

With Robbo singing from the hymn book of “this appears to make sense on face value, so I’m going to try to impose my uninformed opinion on others”, I can’t wait for his article on how Murphy should be made to wear a helmet on the field to prevent future concussions.

He probably doesn’t fly interstate because it’s too dangerous, so drives instead.

was robinson banned from drinking and smoking after his open heart surgery? There should be photos of him posted in his local supermarkets

 

[Markfs]

I reached those lofty heights without having to resort to picking my nose.

i prefer to blame others who should be taking care of me...

 

[The Royal Sampler]

was robinson banned from drinking and smoking after his open heart surgery? There should be photos of him posted in his local supermarkets

This is a curiously excellent point.