List Mgmt. 2025 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Dubai Quacker]

I don't think Florent (and Hayward etc) was signed long-term just because we were in ripping form on top of the ladder. It's not as if Florent was the key driver of that form so we were deluded by him.

I think those two just seemed way more valuable than they actually were because Horse just loved them. Under Horse they were undroppable stalwarts who we could say with reasonable certainty were never going to be dropped within those four years, so signing them for those four years was the logical thing to do.

The only problem is that a lot of other coaches probably wouldn't have held them in the same regard....

That might be true.

Whatever the reason, I still don’t like long term contracts. Buddy included.

There’s too many variables & making commitments based on predicting the future to that extent is high, high risk.

The only mitigating factor - contracts aren’t worth much these days, as long as a player has trade value.

 

[caesar88]

That might be true.

Whatever the reason, I still don’t like long term contracts. Buddy included.

There’s too many variables & making commitments based on predicting the future to that extent is high, high risk.

The only mitigating factor - contracts aren’t worth much these days, as long as a player has trade value.

Without long-term contracts teams would be losing players left, right & centre. And we as a Northern club in the most expensive city in Australia would suffer those consequences the most. I'd imagine we've been able to substitute dollars for years with a lot of these deals over the journey which has helped manage our salary cap.

The way I see it it's quite simple - is there going to be a point in the next (insert number of years) where you won't want (insert player) on your list? If no, then it makes perfect sense to sign the player for whatever the number of years are.

If there's a flaw in the concept, it's probably on the talent assessment end, in terms of identifying the players who fit the above bill and those who aren't all that reliable and could be dropped, tradebait, etc.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I don't think Florent (and Hayward etc) was signed long-term just because we were in ripping form on top of the ladder. It's not as if Florent was the key driver of that form so we were deluded by him.

I think those two just seemed way more valuable than they actually were because Horse just loved them. Under Horse they were undroppable stalwarts who we could say with reasonable certainty were never going to be dropped within those four years, so signing them for those four years was the logical thing to do.

The only problem is that a lot of other coaches probably wouldn't have held them in the same regard....

You gotta give horse credit for getting the most out of players on long term contracts - he had a way to keep up the drive.

I suspect Cox is still finding the grey space between positive encouragement and dropping players. He needs to find ways to keep the players on edge even when their position is safe.

I trust he will. Like any promotion, there is a transition period to learn the new skills required, and also to unlearn what used to work but no longer does.

While this year has been hard for Cox, I think the learnings will be invaluable. He has also done really well to avoid the temptation to rush players back from injury (a strength vs Horse). The list will be fitter the latter half of this year and into next as a result.

 

[caesar88]

You gotta give horse credit for getting the most out of players on long term contracts - he had a way to keep up the drive.

I suspect Cox is still finding the grey space between positive encouragement and dropping players. He needs to find ways to keep the players on edge even when their position is safe.

I trust he will. Like any promotion, there is a transition period to learn the new skills required, and also to unlearn what used to work but no longer does.

While this year has been hard for Cox, I think the learnings will be invaluable. He has also done really well to avoid the temptation to rush players back from injury (a strength vs Horse). The list will be fitter the latter half of this year and into next as a result.

Yeah look, I won't get into it, lest I derail the thread, but I actually thought Horse's record of "getting the most out of players" was extremely hit and miss.

Re Cox, I feel like it's impossible to fairly assess a first year-coach dealing with a nightmare player availability situation and a squad that looks mentally scarred and cooked. But my totally uninformed opinion from the outside looking in is that the best way back for this squad is for Cox to lean a little less into the disciplinary side of things (work harder, punishment, etc.) and more into the holistic side of things (emotional, vulnerability, healing, positivity etc.)

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Getting back on track, I would be curious what length contract would be needed to secure GUH. Edit: JUH

Talk about high risk high reward if he got a long extension - it would likely be the best or worst contract in AFL history.

I’d hope we would be pushing for a short contract, or a short contract with automatic triggers if he plays a certain number of games.

 

[caesar88]

Getting back on track, I would be curious what length contract would be needed to secure GUH.

Talk about high risk high reward if he got a long extension - it would likely be the best or worst contract in AFL history.

I’d hope we would be pushing for a short contract, or a short contract with automatic triggers if he plays a certain number of games.

Grand Uncle Horace?!?!

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Getting back on track, I would be curious what length contract would be needed to secure GUH.

Talk about high risk high reward if he got a long extension - it would likely be the best or worst contract in AFL history.

I’d hope we would be pushing for a short contract, or a short contract with automatic triggers if he plays a certain number of games.

5 years as a starting point i would think

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Grand Uncle Horace?!?!

Haha - it looked odd when I wrote it…

I’d give GUH any length contract he wanted, would be great to have him back

 

[Bloods86]

It depends on exactly how fluid you think form is. Everyone is probably different there, but for me personally I look at the fact that over half of this week's 23 played in the GF three years ago. Eighteen of them played in the GF one year ago. That is a large enough sample size for me to think that is a better representation of what they are than this year's version.

It doesn't negate the fact our depth isn't good enough. It can just mean we're a good side whose depth is one of our weaknesses. Every team's got a few.

Our form fluidity is practically Victoria Falls when it comes to the prelim to grand final transition.

 

[Punts]

Florent will be put up

 

[The King!]

Florent will be put up

For what? 2nd rounder

 

[Punts]

For what? 2nd rounder

Not sure

Just saying what told

 

[The King!]

Not sure

Just saying what told

Cap dump

Surely someone would swap a player or some part of a player trade.

I think inside is worth a go elsewhere for him

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Florent will be put up

Pro sports can be brutal.

 

[Kbroome]

For what? 2nd rounder

Probably will be to clear the books. His level has dropped to a point that you could get from a guy on a cheaper deal and you kinda need the money for the game breakers

 

[The King!]

Probably will be to clear the books. His level has dropped to a point that you could get from a guy on a cheaper deal and you kinda need the money for the game breakers

Just trying to picture which clubs fans are excited they snared Ollie Florents contract right now .

Feels Stkildary

 

[Kbroome]

Just trying to picture which clubs fans are excited they snared Ollie Florents contract right now .

Feels Stkildary

Probably a player that Carlton needs

 

[Cadsky]

Just trying to picture which clubs fans are excited they snared Ollie Florents contract right now .

Feels Stkildary

It has the Saints written all over it

 

[The King!]

Probably a player that Carlton needs

They have their eye on a few GWS VFL players surely

 

[Kbroome]

They have their eye on a few GWS VFL players surely

Fahey and Stone would surely be thought of

 

[SwansLifer]

Florent will be put up

By his knackers?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

They have their eye on a few GWS VFL players surely

I think they must be like a handshake or something to not target their players.

 

[The King!]

I think they must be like a handshake or something to not target their players.

Florent for Harry Lemmey

 

[The King!]

Jumping way ahead if we don't sign Lloyd, I think he gets another gig elsewhere

 

[grimlock]

Warner brother 3?