List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[StCicatriz]

Wilkie won't go cheap IMO but i can see a world in which the trade is done, purely because it would be weighted so heavily in our favor.

dogs have one more shot at a cup. wilkie fits that demographic. we on the other hand could probably depart wilkie and still build.

if the dogs came to us with 2 top 10 picks, i think we would have to consider it. it could explain the JSOS interest whilst still wanting Aleer.

 

[Southeastsainter]

Be absolutely shocked if Wilkie requested a trade. Be even more shocked if we did anything about the request.

You want a top 3 defender in the game? Better pony up Richards, Darcy or Freijah (and a pick!).

Give him a two year extension on good $$$ please!

 

[StCicatriz]

Rose coloured glasses there. Flanders being played out of position. We love windy but his disposal has not improved as it should have. In any tight contest, he unloads it forward with no regard - have a look at the crows pies game and tell me how that works.

Prefer to keep him from a culture, tagging, effort perspective but his kicking is dead set poor.

Marcus Windhager Draft Profile

central.rookieme.com

STRENGTHS:

• Athleticism
• Power
• Versatility
• Clean hands
• Scoreboard impact

IMPROVEMENTS:

• Accumulation
• Kick consistency

Has no AFL level scoreboard impact and the kick consistency remains an issue. The club needs to do more to improve this, or move him on (noting another club might unlock this). I want him to stay, but its not the unmitigated disaster some would have you think.

his kicking has been excellent this year. the knock on that is overdone IMO

 

[stfan]

Wilkie was much more effusive publicly about his desire to stay at the club compared to Nas pre-re-signing.

Indeed. Very hard to reconcile Armoooo 's series of posts today in the Wilkie trade thread and what Wilkie said on record on 16 Aug.

https://archive.md/m15X8

I've been on here for 10 years+ and have never claimed to have any sort of an ITK source before.

Make of that what you will.

Sounds like Armoooo has taken up fishing.....or rather dogbaiting

 

[AFaiL]

Windhager has improved his kicking significantly towards the end of the year. Maybe choosing not to bite off too many risky ones or playing less on the inside. His delivery inside 50 especially has really stepped up. His hand balling is close to the best in the club too.

Improved yes, AFL level quality? No.

Again, i want him to stay but of all the comings and goings in the last few years, he is a very replaceable player and that is why you don't have the hysteria around him that we did with Nas

Also, have a think about who is pursuing him? Dees, Roos, Dons... say absolutely no more. He has a mountain of work to do (as do many others), but disposal is the #1 trait needed in the comp these days. He is a liability in that sense.

 

[StCicatriz]

he's been unfairly marginalised by freo fans IMO

he's a big game player too. which he started to show signs of on the weekend.

 

[PJays]

Billy Longer retired due to concussion issues around the same time as Koby Stevens. Had a solid year in 2017 as an up-and-coming ruck, but retired 2 years later at 26.

That whole era just felt cursed.

Former #1 pick McCartin, Stevens and Longer's careers ended due to concussions.

Roberton a budding star cut down with a rare heart issue. Armitage and Hannebery as discussed.

Meanwhile Riewoldt had finished, leaving a leadership vacuum the size of the Grand Canyon.

 

[Joffaboy]

It was 600k plus incentives when Tim Watson spoke directly to the club a month back.

Lol another one. So
TDK up to 1.4 average including incentives
JSOS 650k x 4
Aleer up to 600k plus incentives.
I just knocked off 700k a year by using other reported figures.
Easy to do.

 

[gringo2011]

I'm happy to move on because I keep getting replies like no one reads what I posted.

Hall and Henry more time on ball? Fine, but we can only play 18 on the ground and 23 in the team at one time.

We don't need a high flying Higgo when we have the best version at the club already: top 10 league goalkicking in a team only I seem to give any credit offensively.

But for the final time: we need forward pressure for defensive purposes. I made no comment about Butler's goalkicking or how he got them.

The fashion for small defensive forwards is a bit passé at the moment. Energetic team lifters like Ginnivan and the Wizzard are the in thing and they expect that all forwards and camped mids etc all contributed to a press to lock the ball in or pressure the receiver further up.

We can have more ground Higgo and an air Higgo this way. I think it should give us at least an extra goal a game and if you add in King its getting a pretty potent feel to it. Ryan will turn absolute shit entries in to goals regularly.

Anyway we will probably have both next year so no stress.

 

[Joffaboy]

It would be a disastrous off season for SOS if we lose Marshall, Windhager and Wilkie. He'd almost need to be sent packing at that point.

We need to hope like hell it's made up.

Aaaannnndddd...we are back to sacking SOS.

 

[Saints43]

I reckon this is a really valid point. We did not connect properly with his needs. Now people will say eff him, he is a sook etc, but the fact that Bassat came out and basically said we stuffed up and changed the game day experience for player families this season, would indicate the club understood they stuffed it up with Battle and his family.
Sad we lost Battle, however from the disappointment it seems the club learnt a valuable lesson and has attempted to correct the problem.

This is spot on.
For comparison, look at Carlton, they have long term players who openly state that they love the club walking out on them. They've decided to make SOS some sort of vaudeville villan that indemnifies then from any self reflection about why these players ended up out of contract in the first place.
The story for then shouldn't be that SOS is fixated on Carlton players, because we've tried to ply many players out of other clubs, but that Carlton players are the easiest to extract.
I'm glad that the hurt of the Battlev rejection was refocused to improving the club environment.

 

[bird_man]

Wilkie won't go cheap IMO but i can see a world in which the trade is done, purely because it would be weighted so heavily in our favor.

dogs have one more shot at a cup. wilkie fits that demographic. we on the other hand could probably depart wilkie and still build.

if the dogs came to us with 2 top 10 picks, i think we would have to consider it. it could explain the JSOS interest whilst still wanting Aleer.

So we'd be paying massive dollars to bring in mature players only to trade our best mature player for draft picks?

Seems like a strange move to me.

 

[SainterinSydney]

I wonder how Callum would feel being told that you could very likely be St Kilda’s next premiership captain. You and Baldock, mate. Do you still want to leave?

 

[The Punter]

The fashion for small defensive forwards is a bit passé at the moment. Energetic team lifters like Ginnivan and the Wizzard are the in thing and they expect that all forwards and camped mids etc all contributed to a press to lock the ball in or pressure the receiver further up.

We can have more ground Higgo and an air Higgo this way. I think it should give us at least an extra goal a game and if you add in King its getting a pretty potent feel to it. Ryan will turn absolute shit entries in to goals regularly.

Anyway we will probably have both next year so no stress.

But it'll be at the expense of roles I believe are important.

I'm a "three genuine talls" forward guy, which means a true FF (King), a true CHF (Sharman), and a forward/ruck (Marshall).

Which leaves three other spots on the field. A leading small forward (Higgins), a high-half forward (Hall), and a pressure forward. A seventh forward starts on the bench and covers all positions (Owens).

I don't see the role for Ryan unless it is at the expense of our height (which has undoubtedly been an issue for ball retention), or one of our better players having their role diminished or replaced (Higgins, Hall, Owens).

 

[John2010362340]

Never said we won't trade overs

But are the Dogs prepared to pay significant overs as in a star young player and a FRP, because that’s what it’ll take. Nothing even remotely less. If not, he stays it’s that simple.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Bulldog supporters are smooth brained halfwits protected by daddy mod on the D&T thread.

Can we take Wilkie as a father/son? O darn...

 

[Joffaboy]

Windhager has improved his kicking significantly towards the end of the year. Maybe choosing not to bite off too many risky ones or playing less on the inside. His delivery inside 50 especially has really stepped up. His hand balling is close to the best in the club too.

If it was out of Flanders and Windy, I would much rather keep Windy. I think his kicking faults are overblown and he is a vital link up man going into attack from stoppages.
I would suggest people go back and watch the 4th qtr v Dees and see how instrumental he was in that win.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Cal is going nowhere. Not sure why we’re even discussing it let alone pissing the bed over it

 

[stavro#4]

Cal is going nowhere. Not sure why we’re even discussing it let alone pissing the bed over it

So we won’t be getting Freijah?

 

[Yawkey way]

This is Flanders 2024 vs Windy this year. I don’t know whether it’s role or injury that’s impacting Flanders right now. But that 2024 is a significant upgrade on windy.

View attachment 2419989

This is 2025 TDK v Marshall. (Left to right).
Keep in mind, people are slamming TDK. But this is half a season as a #1 ruck and half a season as a forward v Marshall as a sole ruck.

TDKs data set rounds 1 v 12 were comparable to Gawn. I posted awhile back.

View attachment 2419990

Worst case you get Marshall but 4 years younger. Best case you can the next elite ruck.

How can you argue only a marginal gain?

You’re being selective with those stats, in 2023 Flanders averaged about the same as Windhager and this year it’s less.

Yes I like TDK and yes he’s younger but this is his best year, we’re projecting big things and hoping he delivers. I stand by what I said it’s marginal the payoff is in the Windhager pick and we have zero idea what that will be and what we’ll do with it, that’s if he actually leaves.

Also we’re talking a big game but Geelong will need to pay up. What happens in that pick turns into Ryan and change ?

There is so much to play out if we trade out Marshall and Windhager and yes it’s risky. I’d be happy if we can’t get what we want in picks or players to just sit on what we’ve done and take 7 to the draft then pick up Flicher.

We would be a very good team if everyone is fit with Marshall, Windhager and Steele all still in the team. As much of that is having a fit King, poo, Howard and Henry.

I’m try to be positive about what we’re doing but the rainbow and lollipops are a bit much. We’re taking risks and it looks like costing us some favourites. That will take some time to digest plus I want to see all the pieces on the board before I pop any champagne corks.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Armoo pulling a captain paddy?

 

[Joffaboy]

Cal is going nowhere. Not sure why we’re even discussing it let alone pissing the bed over it

Because someone trolled the smooth brainers on the Wilkie D&T thread and the bedwetters have collapsed into a morose sea of despair, while the happy clappers say no, no, everything is fine while sitting in a circle, holding hands and singing 'God is dwelling in my heart' like at Sunday school

 

[Joffaboy]

Armoo pulling a captain paddy?

Captain Paddy was eventually right

 

[stavro#4]

But it'll be at the expense of roles I believe are important.

I'm a "three genuine talls" forward guy, which means a true FF (King), a true CHF (Sharman), and a forward/ruck (Marshall).

Which leaves three other spots on the field. A leading small forward (Higgins), a high-half forward (Hall), and a pressure forward. A seventh forward starts on the bench and covers all positions (Owens).

I don't see the role for Ryan unless it is at the expense of our height (which has undoubtedly been an issue for ball retention), or one of our better players having their role diminished or replaced (Higgins, Hall, Owens).

I don’t really see Sharman as a True CHF.

I think we line up with:

2 genuine talls:
King & Marshall/Caminiti

2 medium talls:
Owens & Sharman

2 Smalls:
Higgins & Hall

Ryan off the bench and that’s probably your 7.

 

[bird_man]

If it was out of Flanders and Windy, I would much rather keep Windy. I think his kicking faults are overblown and he is a vital link up man going into attack from stoppages.
I would suggest people go back and watch the 4th qtr v Dees and see how instrumental he was in that win.

Also worth noting Flanders is contracted and won't come cheap.

What would we expect to get for an uncontracted Windhager after originally low balling him?

It wouldn't be a case of swapping Flanders for Windy.