List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[stfan]

They should probably go harder for Marshall though (not that I think we should trade him).

Marshall has many reasons to go to the Cats ; guaranteed finals, chance of a flag, family down that way...plus the more country lifestyle.

The only reason to go to the Dons would be $$$$$ if the Dons stump up a huge deal. Dons will be heavily rebuilding. So lean success and enjoyable playing in his remaining years. ie Why do you thing Merrett wants out? Marshall would be the same mind.

 

[Falchoon]

Funnily (or not) it’s ex players in the media like Dwayne, Hird, Bartel, Davis etc who are supportive of what we are doing.
( not including ex Saints here, just those who can be deemed impartial).

The media nuffies like Morris, Edmund, BARRETT, Ralph who’ve probably never kicked a footy who are laying the boots into us for clicks and likes.
I know who I’d rather listen to.

Barrett

"The aggressive poaching has taken a toll on already-listed Saints"

"While I like the boldness and aggression of the Saints' strategy, I vigorously question the finances attached to the incoming players, the impact they will have on 2026 results and most significantly, the already adverse effect it has had on listed Saints."

"But the only validation to it will be making a preliminary final in 2026"

He vigorously questions the finances attached to the incoming players, assumes a toll and provides a measure for success without once mentioning the 'clever' use of salary cap to allow for a poaching spree.

Not quite the balanced article.

 

[FraserGehrigsHair]

Re Steele, people seem to forget that he had the third highest tackles per game across the AFL in 2025. Only Atkinson and Rowel ahead of him this year, then a huge gap to Dawson in 4th. Handy company.

He’s always been a tackle machine (I think has or had the record for most tackles in first 100 games) and still is. Need more than just tackles from a midfielder but he adds a lot of grunt that can’t be discounted.

Relatedly, there’s talk of Steele maybe spending a bit more time as a forward, which I personally think could be a great move at this point. Adds pressure and much needed leadership to the forward line (and is a decent shot at goal when he has opportunities).

Maybe unlikely but could we trade Butler and keep Steele with more time up forward? Very different players, but could be a good move. Keeps our player-voted captain which think is super important for morale (although I’d still give the captaincy to Wilkie) and still brings in some draft capital.

 

[stfan]

I live statistical analysis, I try to apply it everywhere i can. Studied it at uni between science degrees and an MBA.

But one thing I am confident I'm in saying, that unless they have a team.of world class data scientists, any formula they can come up with is going to be incredibly limited.

Baseball is a sport that you can rely on stats because it's far simpler. How many times did the guy make it to base, how many home runs, how many strike outs. All pretty straight forward.

Footy stats are far more complex, variable and harder to quantify.

Proof of that is Bains who thought that he could be a Moneyball King at St Kilda and boy did he f*** us over.


In this case it would just be a tool to help to screen and compare, which is why Lyon has for example cast his own eyes over JSOS and Aleer.


And then there is good old football judgement and smarts, but you know when you see it. ie Nas, Hall, Sincs and when you do not.

ie Angus.

And players like Hill who are excellent kicks when out in space, but under pressure are poor.

 

[Saint12]

Spud's game should be just a fan thing. Do the ceremonial stuff before the players come out. The players can do media during the week to promote/honour Spud and after the game but they shouldn't be part of the pre game match day events. Spud himself would say there is a game to be won so concentrate all your energy both physical and mental on that.

Spud's game should not be a thing...move on like the Maddie game....enough has been done and said.

 

[pluggeranddoc]

Yuck, I don't want Josh though

Really?
Would give a bit more than just Hammer for Josh.
Guarantee he gets 20 Brownlow votes this year.

 

[sauce_head]

Funnily (or not) it’s ex players in the media like Dwayne, Hird, Bartel, Davis etc who are supportive of what we are doing.
( not including ex Saints here, just those who can be deemed impartial).

The media nuffies like Morris, Edmund, BARRETT, Ralph who’ve probably never kicked a footy who are laying the boots into us for clicks and likes.
I know who I’d rather listen to.

Anybody but Lame Turd.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Roll on 2026

Flanders looks the most proportionate there, everyone else's heads look huge

 

[Falchoon]

Spud's game should not be a thing...move on like the Maddie game....enough has been done and said.

yeah, i don't think it really worked, Tom Boyd came off well, but it's a bit of a Debbie downer with the current pre game set up.

 

[Saint12]

Funnily (or not) it’s ex players in the media like Dwayne, Hird, Bartel, Davis etc who are supportive of what we are doing.
( not including ex Saints here, just those who can be deemed impartial).

The media nuffies like Morris, Edmund, BARRETT, Ralph who’ve probably never kicked a footy who are laying the boots into us for clicks and likes.
I know who I’d rather listen to.

Opinion makers only...no different to any of us. We all know someone that knows someone...just like them, but we don't have the media access. And 99% is wrong.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Interesting comparison--Liam Ryan

1

Liam Ryan

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.6

5star

(29) v Jamie Elliott (33)

Career comparison


2025 season (keep in mind the shit team Flyin is in compared to hot Pies)

 

[stavro#4]

We could, would have the draft picks,
both might be abit too similar
I know Cmack is an inch taller though

Different players.

Flanders is more your busy bee. Low meters gained. Recycles possession or opens the field up for your more attacking players on the outside.

Cmac is a bigger potential midfield version of Max Hall. Great kick of the footy. But hasn’t been able to put it together with any consistency at the poos and wees.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I think I've worked out the draft/trade strategy. They've given up trying to fix our i50 of a long bomb to a contest so next year our fwd line is going to look something like this

Henry Aleer Ryan

Tauru Sharman Collard

 

[Diehard Saint]

Feel like his sometimes poor second efforts are somewhat impacted by his mental state and he might be less stressed playing as a wing than a forward.

Fact is, he’s being played as a key forward.
He’ll be great as that third forward. Plus he’s one of our most reliable goal kickers.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Re Steele, people seem to forget that he had the third highest tackles per game across the AFL in 2025. Only Atkinson and Rowel ahead of him this year, then a huge gap to Dawson in 4th. Handy company.

He’s always been a tackle machine (I think has or had the record for most tackles in first 100 games) and still is. Need more than just tackles from a midfielder but he adds a lot of grunt that can’t be discounted.

Relatedly, there’s talk of Steele maybe spending a bit more time as a forward, which I personally think could be a great move at this point. Adds pressure and much needed leadership to the forward line (and is a decent shot at goal when he has opportunities).

Maybe unlikely but could we trade Butler and keep Steele with more time up forward? Very different players, but could be a good move. Keeps our player-voted captain which think is super important for morale (although I’d still give the captaincy to Wilkie) and still brings in some draft capital.

We could be delisting & retiring up to 9 players as it stands
Heath the only one to me, that makes sense trading out, unless we can get a hugely beneficial return, which l dont think we will.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I think I've worked out the draft/trade strategy. They've given up trying to fix our i50 of a long bomb to a contest so next year our fwd line is going to look something like this

Henry Aleer Ryan

Tauru Sharman Collard

View attachment 2422269

May have to trade Higgo then

 

[Saint12]

Re Steele, people seem to forget that he had the third highest tackles per game across the AFL in 2025. Only Atkinson and Rowel ahead of him this year, then a huge gap to Dawson in 4th. Handy company.

He’s always been a tackle machine (I think has or had the record for most tackles in first 100 games) and still is. Need more than just tackles from a midfielder but he adds a lot of grunt that can’t be discounted.

Relatedly, there’s talk of Steele maybe spending a bit more time as a forward, which I personally think could be a great move at this point. Adds pressure and much needed leadership to the forward line (and is a decent shot at goal when he has opportunities).

Maybe unlikely but could we trade Butler and keep Steele with more time up forward? Very different players, but could be a good move. Keeps our player-voted captain which think is super important for morale (although I’d still give the captaincy to Wilkie) and still brings in some draft capital.

Steele will not take us anywhere as he has already shown..had a small period where he was playing like an A grader, but is basically a C to B atm. Yeah he tackles but not doing a lot of damage with them....time to move past Steele imo.

 

[Ads734]

What a wasted talent Billings was. Hard to tell if it was natural progression of others that left him behind, or gifting of games when he and others probably didn’t deserve it, which naturally made them think they had made it before learning what the actual hard work was.

Real lost era for the club

Bad development , not ever letting him play on the inside. Debilitating injuries and yes probably a lack of explosive speed/strength.

 

[Ads734]

Proof of that is Bains who though he could be a Moneyball King at St Kilda and boy did he f*** us over.


In this case it would just be a tool to help to screen and compare, which is why Lyon has for example cast his own eyes over JSOS and Aleer.


And then there is good old football judgement and smarts, but you know when you see it. ie Nas, Hall, Sincs and when you do not.

ie Angus.

And players like Hill who are excellent kicks when out in space, but under pressure are poor.

Baines trade where we got

Battle now Viking
Clark
Long

for a worse pick the year before will go down in legend status.

 

[Kildonan]

 

[Yawkey way]

what ever happens from here is a bonus

retaining nas and windy is all i really cared about. tdk ryan aleer are a bonus. not sold on JSOS but what ever.

flanders and mac would be handy

No it’s not, we’re only half done.

Keeping Windhager on 4 years is very good but again we’ve retained our own player. Every chance Marshal and Steele leave, what we get and what we do with it will be huge for us moving forward. Then there’s pick seven do we retain it, split it etc.

 

[pebblesofsand]

May have to trade Higgo then

Doesn't fly for enough hangers to even get close to being part of that fwd line.

 

[SaintlyHymns]

Re Steele, people seem to forget that he had the third highest tackles per game across the AFL in 2025. Only Atkinson and Rowel ahead of him this year, then a huge gap to Dawson in 4th. Handy company.

He’s always been a tackle machine (I think has or had the record for most tackles in first 100 games) and still is. Need more than just tackles from a midfielder but he adds a lot of grunt that can’t be discounted.

Relatedly, there’s talk of Steele maybe spending a bit more time as a forward, which I personally think could be a great move at this point. Adds pressure and much needed leadership to the forward line (and is a decent shot at goal when he has opportunities).

Maybe unlikely but could we trade Butler and keep Steele with more time up forward? Very different players, but could be a good move. Keeps our player-voted captain which think is super important for morale (although I’d still give the captaincy to Wilkie) and still brings in some draft capital.

Love Steele but I do feel like those tackle numbers were inflated by our stoppage strategy of bringing half forwards and wings in and creating repeat stoppages.

He also had no offensive dominance away from stoppage which we desperately need. I think keeping him in midfield rotation would stagnate the growth of Pou and Boxshall.

Steele is a beautiful set shot and can take a grab. There's a role for him to play as a 50/50 fwd-mid rotating with Pou. But if he stays he has to add another string to his bow.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Doesn't fly for enough hangers to even get close to being part of that fwd line.

Didn't cotton on that it was about hangers? ah ok.

 

[stfan]

Flanders looks the most proportionate there, everyone else's heads look huge

It is due to the new Football Analysis Tool that our List Management Team is using. Evidently big-headed players go better.....