List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[gringo2011]

Contested possessions, clearances & tackles is what I'm interested in there.

Why are people so against Sam Flanders? He's had one absolutely elite year last year and looks gettable. His disposal is very good, he can play multiple roles and his low profile from playing in Queensland has kept his value down.

I see it like Bailey Smith and Matt Kennedy last year, everyone was rushing to look for the reasons why it would be a disaster and meanwhile two clubs loaded up top and talent on the cheap.

He might not be Lauchie Neale but he's a significant accumulator. Literally top 2 in the AFL last year and in the top ten for a load of stats. You can say he's not super damaging but if you take out a Ryan Byrnes and replace him with a player that will win more ball than most and get it out to someone more damaging surely that's a good thing.

Top 4 in Supercoach scores last season with Gawn and Xerri ahead of him, the only mid above him was Bont. Second in the AFL for effective disposals, didn't play full time mid and still averaged similar stoppage clearance numbers to LDU, only Noah Anderson ahead of him at GC on score involvements- funny enough equal to Sinclair who was our leading SI player.

I think he could be like Josh Kennedy going to Sydney. Hawks had too many mids and he left for opportunity.

 

[chris_h_11]

Would you give Corey the vfl side next year as a step in his apprenticeship or is he too valuable for that???

I reckon he does a fair bit during the week and on match day without us knowing. I think RL already is doing a "Director of Coaching" type role and is the public face, while Enright works away in the background.

 

[hangdog]

No, 30 y.o, whose body could be cooked, was on the bench for 1 game towards the end of the season
We would get similar compensation as for Macrae.

Merrett - 30 in early October, injury history, contracted, captain = 2 x FR picks

Steele - 30 in early December, less injury prone (played "sore"), contracted, captain = Late 2nd/Early 3rd.

Make it make sense

 

[gringo2011]

the whole load up on free agents didnt go too well for them.

i hope to hell we never end up in this position. super important we play finals next year or the year after to avoid that kind of situation.

They had the worst injury run imaginable. They seemed to have drafted enough good young talent to build off but they all seemed to stall, breakdown or leave.

It looks a lot like our Trout era. Lots of bad luck, lots of bad drafting and a kind of depressing lack of hope seeping through the whole club. I actually feel sorry for them.

 

[gringo2011]

Mentioned a few times a couple of weeks ago but since then I think its just us manifesting it. Realistically, I dont think he moves, Hawks supporter and Sam apparently is a big fan.

Personally, I think he'd be foolish to stay considering the 4 midfielders they are chasing. As soon as Zach says yes, I'd be clearing out my locker if I was him.

Depends on what secondary role he thinks he can play I guess. If he could play as a HF with stints on ball that might be enough for him.

 

[The Punter]

Merrett - 30 in early October, injury history, contracted, captain = 2 x FR picks

Steele - 30 in early December, less injury prone (played "sore"), contracted, captain = Late 2nd/Early 3rd.

Make it make sense

2025

Merrett 27.77 disposals per game
Steele 20.86 disposals per game

 

[BrutThough]

Would you give Corey the vfl side next year as a step in his apprenticeship or is he too valuable for that???

He's beyond that. Already 2nd in charge of the senior team. Would be too big of a loss to put him in the development leagues.

 

[gringo2011]

Go watch his games in midfield back end of last year. A little B grade version running around.

Started the year at half back

Not sure he'll be Neale but he's a very good player anyway. I think he played an A grade year last year regardless. If he'd been at a Melbourne club people would be jizzing themselves about him.

To me this is an absolute opportunity to get another high end player through the door. Can see him being like 2025 Matt Kennedy easily. Anything above that is a bonus.

 

[stavro#4]

You're comparing a 5th year prime Flanders to the entire career of Neale which is skewed by his average of 18 disposals over his first three seasons as well as recent years where he's been copping tags week in week out

Despite this, Neale pretty much has double the clearances of Flanders, more than double his centre clearances, and averages 4 more contested possessions

So if ur trying to compare midfield quality, Flanders still gets blown out the water despite being favoured by bias

Add on the fact that 2024 Flanders was played majority off half back in a seagull distributing role whilst Neale has been 100% midfield his entire career - the comparison isn't even valid statistically

If you want to compare Flanders to 'brownlow medallist' Neale, then compare him to a year where he won the Brownlow

Can also compare both at the same age (25)

View attachment 2422783View attachment 2422784

What did you prove mate? That the 2024 Flanders stacks up to any year of Neale.

That the data - which is likely we are using something similar shows that he is somewhat untapped and would represent a great get?

That if we land Flanders, we aren’t signing him to play half back are we.

We see this guy playing in our midfield. Next to Nas. Feeding off TDK

 

[stfan]

Merrett - 30 in early October, injury history, contracted, captain = 2 x FR picks

Injury history? I have not followed him exactly and so perhaps he has been playing injured, but he does not seem to have actually missed many games?

 

[hayes]

the whole load up on free agents didnt go too well for them.

i hope to hell we never end up in this position. super important we play finals next year or the year after to avoid that kind of situation.

There’s every chance we get the sugar hit for the first year and play finals like we did in 2020 but it’s the year after that will be telling. Not going to lie this whole “go all in to make Nas happy” thing makes me super nervous.

 

[joydivision22]

I think we have to be thinking about years 3 to 6. I know we have NAS for two, but if we are tending up we will have no issues keeping him. Hopefully by then there is More of a collective attitude moving forward regarding team success as opposed to money.

What if TDK goes down in a prelim next year a bit like spider Everitt did, we make it through to grand final just and have to play Geelong with Marshall as their ruckman vs Dodson and Keeler.

 

[akaifu]

What did you prove mate? That the 2024 Flanders stacks up to any year of Neale.

That the data - which is likely we are using something similar shows that he is somewhat untapped and would represent a great get?

That if we land Flanders, we aren’t signing him to play half back are we.

We see this guy playing in our midfield. Next to Nas. Feeding off TDK

Which stats are you looking at?

 

[kyrgios]

The downside to this is that a Geelong/Collingwood granny looks almost certain now.

Suns v Crows

 

[stavro#4]

Which stats are you looking at?

The ones you posted.

 

[akaifu]

The ones you posted.

Which stats specifically that make Flanders better/equal with Neale? Kicking efficiency?

 

[gringo2011]

I feel like Windhager and Flanders would compete for the same role. And I like Windy better, think he is on the cusp of putting together an even bigger season, and he’s more contested, a better tackler, and can compete against the bigger bodied mids. If we keep Windy, I’m not fussed about Flanders.

Both are adaptable players. Inside mids are super limited and can't really fit in the side unless they are elite. You can play two inside specialists and a couple of inside/outside types in a regular best 22. Guys that can play multiple roles are much easier to fit in the side.

I want both. I think at worst you replace guys like Stocker and Byrnes with an upgrade and probably push Steele out of the starting midfield even. In an ideal world he becomes A grade straight up and pushes an ageing Macrae out.

 

[AFaiL]

They are playing whack-a-mole at the moment using their picks to fill areas of issue.

I actually think their forward line is miles off being a contender. Gunston is in career best form but is a soft tissue injury away from retirement.

Chol/Lewis/Dear haven’t demonstrated they’re capable of being a number 1 forward.

If they don’t win it next year while Gunston is playing the football he is, I’m not sure they can with the talls they have.

Next year? THIS year. There is no guarantee Gunston kicks 60 in 2026. You dont get many chances, if you can get to a semi, you can win the thing. No gaurantees in the following year. They were meant to be world beaters this season and if they lose tomorrow, have actually gone backwards while adding an AA defender and having Gunston kick 60....

 

[gringo2011]

I think he’s been very average, we’d be calling him disappointing if he played for us.

I don’t think he moves because the ask would be too much. The Hawks are still hanging onto him being pick 7 but he hasn’t lived up to that. Even at vfl level he’s not that impressive and he’s not a goal kicker which is surprising to me.

You are definitely paying a premium on potential still. His numbers are fairly good, he just looks a bit bland still at this point to me. Could be a good average middler or a jet but you are paying on his potential jet future.

It is a horrible draft so wouldn't be against trading out of it for a more known quantity still.

 

[AFaiL]

On the actual topic of List Management... how many players do we have that can truly play multiple positions, effectively?

THe cats are stacked with versatility and it shows (champion data backs if up if anybody listens to SEN on a Tuesday night)

Nas
Sincs
Hall



I don't see a hell of a lot of true, proven versatility after that, I would be identifying this which I think the club has with JSOS and Ryan

 

[magd2992]

What if TDK goes down in a prelim next year a bit like spider Everitt did, we make it through to grand final just and have to play Geelong with Marshall as their ruckman vs Dodson and Keeler.

And we’ll still win it. Sorry, Ro.

 

[gringo2011]

It's amazing to me that Hawthorn don't cop more scrutiny. Yes they played Carlton like a fiddle in the pick swap, but recruiting veterans Barrass and now Merrett/Petracca for high end draft picks is really mortgaging your future. That makes sense if you're on the cusp of a flag, but I'm not sure they are.

They have a great game plan but lack the really high end players still. Getting a couple of absolute stars probably puts them in premiership contention for a few seasons. To me they are a bit like Geelong. It's kind of a team full of B+ players but adding some Jeremy Cameron and Dangerfield level talent makes them a dominant side.

 

[AFaiL]

What if TDK goes down in a prelim next year a bit like spider Everitt did, we make it through to grand final just and have to play Geelong with Marshall as their ruckman vs Dodson and Keeler.

If we got to a GF in 2026 wthout marshall.... well then the plan worked, right?

 

[The Punter]

On the actual topic of List Management... how many players do we have that can truly play multiple positions, effectively?

THe cats are stacked with versatility and it shows (champion data backs if up if anybody listens to SEN on a Tuesday night)

Nas
Sincs
Hall



I don't see a hell of a lot of true, proven versatility after that, I would be identifying this which I think the club has with JSOS and Ryan

Yes: Windy, Jones, NWM, Clark, Stocker, Keeler, Marshall, Henry, Pou, Tauru, Dodson, Wood, Sinclair, Hall, Sharman, Heath, Caminiti

No: Higgins, Collard, Macrae, Hill, Steele, Owens, King, Byrnes, Dow, Butler, Carroll, Howard, Wilson, Hastie, Schoemakers, Garcia, Wilkie, O'Connell

Maybe: Travaglia, Boxshall

 

[gringo2011]

On the actual topic of List Management... how many players do we have that can truly play multiple positions, effectively?

THe cats are stacked with versatility and it shows (champion data backs if up if anybody listens to SEN on a Tuesday night)

Nas
Sincs
Hall



I don't see a hell of a lot of true, proven versatility after that, I would be identifying this which I think the club has with JSOS and Ryan

Windhager probably the most adaptable. Can play inside or outside mid, wing, tagger, HB, HF etc.