List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[The Boar]

Geelong won’t have a single bad word uttered about them. “Because they tried” it’s the same thing with Marshall, which is an extension to how we are operating with Aleer in much smaller waters.

They're also too proud to miss out on both deals, so I think they'll lift their game with Marshall.

 

[Parkysp]

I'm being serious here , i would have thought the dealing was between us and Giants to work out a suitable arrangement , what does the manager have to do with that side of things ?

Look after his player and make sure that the clubs are aligned. Work both ends so there are. o surprises. ie earn the money the player is paying you to do your job.

I'd be pretty certain that situations like this don't happen often because the player managers make sure it doesn't happen.

 

[mighty_sainters]

Llyod said he wasn't AFL standard a few days ago?

Looks like we arent the only people flip flopping this trade period.

Exactly mate, criticised for overpaying for an apparent C grader, yet apparently because a contract value is worth a certain amount the trade value has to be similar?

Sorry, but this is different to a Flanders situation, he had two years remaining.

 

[phantom13]

I’m not claiming it’s accepted practice. But again I don’t care about the outcomes for any other club.

If 17 other clubs were fair towards us and bender our way during every deal for players they wanted. I’d have no issue doing that the other direction.

Factually Flanders and Ryan came in with no issues. Heath went out with no issues.

The moment we start acting like other clubs - one being Geelong that we have been vocal we will act like, which their supporters celebrate that they will “walk away” and has been clear in the Marshall thread, our club becomes the target for poor trade ethics.

There’s two pretty glaring issues in this post to me.

1- your first line totally removed the fact that trading isn’t a zero sum game. There is a need to give to get. If every club approached trading as we must “win” no trades would ever get done. That’s why walking away with a week to go is unprecedented and looks poor.

2- the last line about emulating Geelong. Well if Geelong has walked away from Marshall (which I haven’t seen anyone suggesting) then they’ve managed the optics and comms way way better than we have. So we’re not really emulating Geelong.

 

[BrutThough]

I'd love to hear from the club today.

Get out side of this story out there instead of letting everyone else connect the dots themselves.

 

[stavro#4]

What an incredible lack of awareness.

You're the one with an emotional investment in defending your club, which you obviously see as an extension of your identity.

Anybody who can view this rationally can see that saints appear to have dogged Aleer. Survey fans from 17 other clubs and the view would be unanimous.

What yoy are experiencing is classic cognitive dissonance. You have an emotional need to defend the club at all costs and you are incapable of rational thought.

Im not a bedwetter, this isn't the end of the world. Just unprofessional. The false equivalences are just making people seem desperate.

You’re accusing me of being emotionally invested, yet you’re the one throwing around psychological diagnoses because someone disagrees with you. That’s not rational discussion—that’s projection.

The reality is, Our Saints have every right to play hardball if other clubs do the same when we’re at the table. You don’t get to demand fair treatment while offering none in return. If the market sets a high bar for trades against us, why shouldn’t we do the same when we’re negotiating?

No one’s saying it’s the end of the world. But calling it “unprofessional” just because Saints didn’t roll over doesn’t hold up. That’s not unprofessional—that’s strategic consistency.

And as for “unanimous” outside opinions—fans love to gang up when it suits their club’s interest. That’s not objectivity, it’s tribalism.

We will be hung in the media. But at the core of it, it’s no different to Geelong and Marshall.

 

[phantom13]

Proof will be in the pudding.

If as stated player managers will be up in arms over this, let’s see if we are ever able to trade for a player again. If trade radio wasn’t a thing, this gets moved aside so quickly.

It’s a story, a good story so the media will ride it for clicks which is totally acceptable.

The next time we trade for a player, this is old news. I for one hope it happens this window.

Fair. I suspect it winds up being longer term. Plenty of player agents and managers have discussed advising their players not to nominate clubs after said club cooked a deal in the past. It’s a small (and incredibly unprofessional) industry in this space.

 

[phantom13]

You’re accusing me of being emotionally invested, yet you’re the one throwing around psychological diagnoses because someone disagrees with you. That’s not rational discussion—that’s projection.

The reality is, Our Saints have every right to play hardball if other clubs do the same when we’re at the table. You don’t get to demand fair treatment while offering none in return. If the market sets a high bar for trades against us, why shouldn’t we do the same when we’re negotiating?

No one’s saying it’s the end of the world. But calling it “unprofessional” just because Saints didn’t roll over doesn’t hold up. That’s not unprofessional—that’s strategic consistency.

And as for “unanimous” outside opinions—fans love to gang up when it suits their club’s interest. That’s not objectivity, it’s tribalism.

We will be hung in the media. But at the core of it, it’s no different to Geelong and Marshall.

You’re reducing it to “deal didn’t get done” when ultimately that’s not what the criticism is about.

 

[phantom13]

I'd love to hear from the club today.

Get out side of this story out there instead of letting everyone else connect the dots themselves.

I actually reckon if we didn’t say anything yesterday we’re almost better off not addressing it today tbh.

There’s not really a good reason or excuse. Ask no forgiveness etc.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Tony74 being on the money again despite all industry experts claims is the real story here. He’s like Batman, shows up out of the blue, drops a bombshell and then just disappears.

 

[mighty_sainters]

I'd love to hear from the club today.

Get out side of this story out there instead of letting everyone else connect the dots themselves.

No matter which way we put it, everyone will side with GWS/Aleer.

Come out, take the heat, and move on.

 

[Lennylegs]

Been blasting "First It Giveth" by Queens of The Stone Age all morning, aka The Gubby Song...

"First it giveth then it taketh awaaaay..."

 

[stavro#4]

There’s two pretty glaring issues in this post to me.

1- your first line totally removed the fact that trading isn’t a zero sum game. There is a need to give to get. If every club approached trading as we must “win” no trades would ever get done. That’s why walking away with a week to go is unprecedented and looks poor.

2- the last line about emulating Geelong. Well if Geelong has walked away from Marshall (which I haven’t seen anyone suggesting) then they’ve managed the optics and comms way way better than we have. So we’re not really emulating Geelong.

Your hung up on “walking away.”

Walking away can be seen as a negotiating tactic to focus a few minds.

You can emulate Geelong in action. Narrative is the issue and you are buying in.

Their narrative is that they are elite at anything they do. They get caught cheating and claim it’s accounting errors. No one bats an eye. We highlight the significant issues with the draft and get belted on every form of media - to only be proven correct 12 months later.

 

[mighty_sainters]

Fair. I suspect it winds up being longer term. Plenty of player agents and managers have discussed advising their players not to nominate clubs after said club cooked a deal in the past. It’s a small (and incredibly unprofessional) industry in this space.

I think there’s just so many differing opinions on how the system should work. A good percentage of people think we should be adopting the, club can trade a player without their consent scenario, this particular issue shows we are way too protective/emotional as an industry to go this way.

Players have had power for so long, we finally stand up to a club/player manager and the world is ending.

So which we do we want it AFL, will we continue tip toeing around so everyone is pleased or are we going to mature enough to one day move this industry in a new direction?

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

I'd love to hear from the club today.

Get out side of this story out there instead of letting everyone else connect the dots themselves.

I'd love to see Gubby roll on in late, wearing a fishing hat, and proceed to visibly kick his feet up for the whole day, while contentedly munching on a sandwich.

Come close of day, I'd love for him to shotgun a beer, shout "later nerds," and then skateboard out of the venue, stopping only to give Cal Twomey a noogie on the way out.

 

[gringo2011]

It is entirely different.

A contracted player not being able to go to the other club he would like to play for is a world of difference to an uncontracted player (ahead of the biggest contracted of his career), making an agreement with one club, basically closing down 17 other options, only for it to come undone with 5 days to spare.

If you think saints have a right to screw over players and you don't care because they're not one of our guys, just say it. There's no argument against it.

But trying to act like this is something that happens regularly is ridiculous.

So give them next year’s FRDP?

 

[phantom13]

Your hung up on “walking away.”

Walking away can be seen as a negotiating tactic to focus a few minds.

You can emulate Geelong in action. Narrative is the issue and you are buying in.

Their narrative is that they are elite at anything they do. They get caught cheating and claim it’s accounting errors. No one bats an eye. We highlight the significant issues with the draft and get belted on every form of media - to only be proven correct 12 months later.

Walking away is literally the story and given how it’s blown up it would look even worse for us to about face.

I followed up quoting you, you’re not even arguing over what the issue is.

We look bad, that’s it really, we sort of have to accept that cause claiming we don’t when everyone who isn’t a rusted on saint is dumb.

 

[SainterinSydney]

I know it's not over, but if you had said to me that the biggest controversy for us from this trade period was us not pursuing Aleer, I would have died laughing.

 

[stavro#4]

Narratives

 

[phantom13]

I think there’s just so many differing opinions on how the system should work. A good percentage of people think we should be adopting the, club can trade a player without their consent scenario, this particular issue shows we are way too protective/emotional as an industry to go this way.

Players have had power for so long, we finally stand up to a club/player manager and the world is ending.

So which we do we want it AFL, will we continue tip toeing around so everyone is pleased or are we going to mature enough to one day move this industry in a new direction?

Yeh look I agree the current model of player empowerment isn’t at all sustainable but it’s also all we’ve got right now so we have to work into it.

 

[mighty_sainters]

Most of us are natural pessimists growing up supporting this club. I was probably in a constant loop of denial and was quite unhappy how the club was operated from 2012 until 2021/2022.

I just feel now we have reason to be optimistic and whilst I may not agree with every decision we make, in my own opinion we are getting a hell of a lot right.

Definitely not a moneyball approach by all means with the money we are throwing around, but how good is it to try something new for once?

I’m backing the club here, whilst some will look at it at rose tinted glasses firmly on, I know in my 35 year St Kilda supporting journey, I can be more than critical when I don’t agree with the direction/decision. This isn’t one of them.

 

[stavro#4]

Walking away is literally the story and given how it’s blown up it would look even worse for us to about face.

I followed up quoting you, you’re not even arguing over what the issue is.

We look bad, that’s it really, we sort of have to accept that cause claiming we don’t when everyone who isn’t a rusted on saint is dumb.

You are focused on “walking away”.

It’s not the issue at all. We did it with Soldo and Kemp just last year. Both publicly agreed to come.

The issue is us walking away is considered poor because Aleer nominated us and is going to lose a significant pay bump.

And as I’ve pointed out that you haven’t spoken to.

Geelong have done the exact same thing with Marshall. They are applauded. They offered what they thought was fair and not what we wanted.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I'd love to hear from the club today.

Get out side of this story out there instead of letting everyone else connect the dots themselves.

Everyone else already considering all possibilities

 

[BrutThough]

I actually reckon if we didn’t say anything yesterday we’re almost better off not addressing it today tbh.

There’s not really a good reason or excuse. Ask no forgiveness etc.

Fair. Nothing we say is going to turn public sentiment. It would just be nice for the supporters to have some sort of understanding of how things went from the clubs perspective. But it might be best for that to happen after trade period is over and tempers in the media have cooled.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Look after his player and make sure that the clubs are aligned. Work both ends so there are. o surprises. ie earn the money the player is paying you to do your job.

I'd be pretty certain that situations like this don't happen often because the player managers make sure it doesn't happen.

Yeah i knew all of that , i just didn't realize once the payment details were sorted what he would have anything to do with pick or and player swaps