List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[saintmike65]

Is Butler to Gold Coast still on the cards?

Maybe a late deal...GC have a lot on their plate

 

[TheOsprey]

lol “he is more than welcome to play at GWS next year”

Not “we’re stoked he’s staying” more “we were relieved we didn’t have to keep playing him to inflate his trade value”

These ****ers don’t want him either!!

 

[phantom13]

I get what your saying, but the onus is not on us to engage the other party. The onus is on Geelong. They want the asset. They started the conversation. If we walk out of the room, it is up to Marshall's manager and Geelong to speak to us

Its like saying St.Kilda "walked away" from negotiations with the Bulldogs on Wilkie. Thats not how it works

Yeh i agree to a point.

We agreed with Roma that wed discuss it, so were obligated to do that. Beyond that i think were well within our rights to walk away, the issue (and original discussion point) is that this isnt the same as the Aleer deal, which its not because in that scenario we were Geelong and we walked.

Theyve been intertwined into the narrative, if the Aleer thing hadnt happened, the Roma stuff wouldnt even be discussed.

 

[MrFoster]

I have no idea how youve quoted me here, i never said anything about McCartney or that quote...

Wasn't quoting you. I said "As they say...", not "as you said". by the way, "don't hate the player, hate the game" is a lingo they used in the hip pop music world back in the days, just showing my age here.

 

[phantom13]

Exactly we are still North Melbourne like in the eyes of the AFL world. People are confused by the muscle flexing display we are putting in. It’s got a lot of people wanting to keep us where we are or scared that we will jump them. Just keep flexing until they sit down.

Youve gotta spend some time in the gym before you flex otherwise you just look like... well... you, flexing into a mirror.

 

[stavro#4]

I dont agree, if weve told Roma well sit with Geelong then we are under an obligation to him to do so.

Rest is probably fair, its just not the accepted protocol. I also think if it wasnt on the back of the Aleer thing it wouldnt be a story at all, both are conflating to make us look like were overly agrresive, mildly incompetent idiots.

I probably agree on the walking away being media BS but i think in the Aleer case it seems to be true.

I dont think you play 2 rucks in modern footy and Roma is a first choice ruck so i think he makes very little difference to our fortunes except as a back up.

Brisbane literally won the most recent grand final with Darcy ****ing Fort and the Big O

 

[phantom13]

Wasn't quoting you. I said "As they say...", not "as you said". by the way, "don't hate the player, hate the game" is a lingo they used in the hip pop music world back in the days, just showing my age here.

No... youve actually quoted me in your reply except its not a quote i made.

I actually dont know what youve done there, maybe a multi quote issue.

 

[phantom13]

Brisbane literally won the most recent grand final with Darcy ****ing Fort and the Big O

Ive had this discussion elsewhere.

Only one actual ruckman played that game. O Mac.

Darcy v Blicavs was Mitchito v Van Rooyen.

Its bolsters my argument if anything.

 

[From 45]

You cant really argue GWS were unreasonable unless you actually tried to make the deal happen, leaving negotations with a week to go isnt trying.

Thats the narrative, thats the story, thats why were copping it.

The facts may very well be that GWS were clear they wouldnt budge but we left the discussions, so its on us.

So the alternative is to sit there for the next 6 days and waste everyone’s time so that we can just look like we’re being reasonable?

 

[phantom13]

So the alternative is to sit there for the next 6 days and waste everyone’s time so that we can just look like we’re being reasonable?

Probably depends on whether you think we did just bail on a guy we got to comitt to us OR if we genuinely didnt think negotations were going to get anywhere but in short, yeh.

Im not arguing it makes any sense but alot of standard conventions dont make sense.

 

[Teflon]

Funnily enough I was never all that sold on Aleer either, especially after we got JSOS.

Still seems poorly handled

Agree
But better to be poorly handled than waste a list position and cap on a player (however late) you now know you don’t need or want for the sake of folding to “peer media/manager/invisible other club sources…” pressure
Hold the line weather the storm it blows over
Of course if another player comes in….we’ll still be kicked to the shizen house so who cares what they think

 

[SainterinSydney]

Ive had this discussion elsewhere.

Only one actual ruckman played that game. O Mac.

Darcy v Blicavs was Mitchito v Van Rooyen.

Its bolsters my argument if anything.

The main argument for keeping Ro for me is insurance if TDK goes down. We can't expect Keeler and Dodson to hold down the ruck and expect to be final's contenders.

 

[Lightsxo]

Btw the amount of airtime this is getting is absurd.

Goes to show how little things are going on that people legitimately are dissecting this from all angles.

We’ve got the main fish we’ve wanted in TDK, Flanders and one of Leek/Jsos.

Signed Nas, kept Roma and Wilkie.

Happy days. External noise is just external.

 

[sasaint]

According to how its being reported (or at least discussed noting i dont see the reporting being done on this one that is on Aleer) the accepted convention is that club a (Geelong in this case) enquires about a player, player requests a trade to club a, club b (us in this case) accepts that request and agrees to try and facilitate a trade.

From their both club have the entirety of trade week to finalise that deal and its pretty rare that any club just gives up on that until the cowbell rings at the deadline. If we have "walked away" it implies that were just not even going to negotiate anymore, not that were playing hardball or miles apart on the deal, were just packing up, not to be discussed, Roma stays, ** his request and ** the cats.

You can absolutely argue Geelong is offering unders and were not accepting it but clubs dont generally "walk away" from discussions with 6 days to go in the trade period.

Thats the issue, thats what were copping it over the Aleer deal for, thats whats being conflated here.

Frankly I see the Saints as doing the right thing by Aleer, making it clear that we see no pathway for a deal and by advising Aleer and GWS that early, so we give both the chance to make a deal somewhere else. What I do see is a lazy *rsed player agent squawking about unfair life is and not out there pounding the pavement to cut another deal. Move on.

 

[Yawkey way]

It is entirely different.

A contracted player not being able to go to the other club he would like to play for is a world of difference to an uncontracted player (ahead of the biggest contracted of his career), making an agreement with one club, basically closing down 17 other options, only for it to come undone with 5 days to spare.

If you think saints have a right to screw over players and you don't care because they're not one of our guys, just say it. There's no argument against it.

But trying to act like this is something that happens regularly is ridiculous.

Every offer or chat is conditional until a deal is made and a contract lodged.

It’s crazy to talk as if we owe Aleer something, we don’t.

 

[MordySaint]

We really don't have a whole lot to offer the Giants to get Aleer. He's certainly worth a relatively low pick as he's young and has a good future ahead of him.

The deal for Flanders changed the landscape, getting a decent midfielder who would change our entire dynamic was a deal breaker. This let go our first pick which may have used to get Aleer.

Unfortunately those who are late or last in line normally miss out. That's just life.

I'm pretty comfortable with what has happened.

 

[phantom13]

The main argument for keeping Ro for me is insurance if TDK goes down. We can't expect Keeler and Dodson to hold down the ruck and expect to be final's contenders.

Fair, i think its silly to keep a clear ones player (likely on 1s salary) as back up but thats just an opinion.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

So, like, on the surface at least, and barring the emerge of the shadowy Mystery Mid (tm), it looks like we're done?

Only way we do more trades is if clubs are willing to meet our demands (Marshall), clubs are willing to lower their demands for their players (Aleer), or a club emerges as a good fit for wanted but not required players (Steele)?

Seems like we can only have positive outcomes from here, unless we shoot ourselves in the foot or change our modus operandi?

How is everyone feeling about trade and free agency? Are we satisfied with:

In:
TDK
JSOS
Flanders
Ryan
2027 3rd Round Pick (WC)
2027 4th Round Pick (Dees)

Out:
Pick 8
2026 Second Round Pick
Heath

Not a lot out for quite a bit in, when you look at it as a whole.

 

[Teflon]

From my understanding you guys spent a long time trying to convince Aleer to leave GWS and join your club. He initially rebuffed your approach, but you kept going with offers of big money and opportunity and you told him how much you loved him as a player etc…

On the back of constant aproach’s, you convinced him to come, so on the back of this Aleer rejected the GWS offer and obviously didn’t entertain offers from any other clubs that may have come his way.

A contract term was obviously discussed, and it would have also been clear what was required from a trade value standpoint.

The Saints should at least be honest with Aleer and not give some BS story about not being able to find a pick to get the deal done.

Fck off

 

[Remboy]

Soldo?!

Yep, then we on trade Soldo for Aleer lol.

 

[Marlo]

650-750k more we can chuck towards midfielders, whether future trade or our guys

One of our young lads is bound to sky-rocket and demand huge coin

It was a dog act by us 100%, but didn't need that cap hit for a VFL player

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Your defense is that one person has reported they dont know who walked away... Thats pretty weak.

This is all opinion and optics of which

• We were reported as the hardest club to deal with
• We have been reported as walking away, with a week to go, from a player we comitted to
• There is absolutely no reporting that Geelong walked away from the roma deal (your point above doesnt say they did).

To be clear, i have no doubt weve done the right thing by us, i have no real issue with us walking away from said deal but im also not naive enough to pretend that weve not created a story for the media and other clubs to whack us with. Which is exactly whats happened.

The smarter play for PR would have been to go along with the Giants on the Aleer deal (whether they back down and that gets done or not, if its not through by deadline its always reported as "both clubs tried") and the same with Roma.

That we havent done that is the whole reason there is any story here at all. Thats a choice we made, no one else.

The better defense of this is "saints first, we dont care about the rest" not "well this happens all the time, Geelong even did it here" cause thats just not whats being reported.

What you miss is by letting the Aleer camp know now, it gives him a chance to still find a new home. If we jerked them along for the week and then failed to work a trade then he is stuck at GWS.

We actually did him and his flog of a manager a favour.

 

[From 45]

Probably depends on whether you think we did just bail on a guy we got to comitt to us OR if we genuinely didnt think negotations were going to get anywhere but in short, yeh.

Im not arguing it makes any sense but alot of standard conventions dont make sense.

I’d hazard a guess it’s the latter. If you’re getting a sense the 3rd party is unwilling to negotiate and are steadfast with their position, the sensible thing to do is shake hands and you move on.

These discussions have been going on for sometime( well before trade period had commenced)and it’s quite clear GWS aren’t budging with their demands, and that’s fair enough.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Fair, i think its silly to keep a clear ones player (likely on 1s salary) as back up but thats just an opinion.

I do think both TDK and Ro can play in the same team especially with the bench increasing to 5. I do love the idea of finally having forwards over 200 cm up there next season--Ming (let's pray) and TDK/Ro. At best, they stop an intercept and allow our crummers to either bottle it in or score.

 

[PaythePerryman]

I’d hazard a guess it’s the latter. If you’re getting a sense the 3rd party is unwilling to negotiate and are steadfast with their position, the sensible thing to do is shake hands and you move on.

These discussions have been going on for sometime( well before trade period had commenced)and it’s quite clear GWS aren’t budging with their demands, and that’s fair enough.

Saints don't wanna pay him anymore. Let's not overcomplicate it.