List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[Winmar2Lockett]

I dont agree, if weve told Roma well sit with Geelong then we are under an obligation to him to do so.

Rest is probably fair, its just not the accepted protocol. I also think if it wasnt on the back of the Aleer thing it wouldnt be a story at all, both are conflating to make us look like were overly agrresive, mildly incompetent idiots.

I probably agree on the walking away being media BS but i think in the Aleer case it seems to be true.

I dont think you play 2 rucks in modern footy and Roma is a first choice ruck so i think he makes very little difference to our fortunes except as a back up.

Brisbane beg to differ. On the biggest day of the year they ran with two rucks, both of whom have very little forward craft.

Anyway, I was talking about Ro... not Aleer.

We have sat with Geelong. We've listened to what they've offered & whatever they proposed wasn't what we would consider as enough to move Ro on.

Our obligation ends there. The obligation moves to Geelong to improve that offer.

If we refused to even speak with them, then you would have a point.

We know that we have.

 

[Captain Paddy]

If GWS were only offering Aleer a ‘modest’ 3 year deal, why did they prevent him from getting a good pay day by demanding a F2

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Ainsworth?

Butler for Ainsworth would make for a decent exchange plus a swap of picks perhaps.

Ainsworth wants out and GCS want an elite pressure forward.

 

[kick it lace out]

If we hadn't taken JSOS, I would have wanted Aleer more, to be honest.

JSOS is a significantly better defender than Aleer. For those that don't agree go back and watch the final between the GWS & Hawks.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

 

[ScrappyDo]

Do we actually want SDK? He hasn't quite set the world on fire in recent times.

Big picture it probably means we can trade Doogs for a packet of chips and free up a list spot and a bit of SC.
SDK was not bad in 2024 and has proven AFL ability with improvement left in him. Also has the size to become a true FB and chop out in the ruck. I'd say it's a sensible opportunity rather than a needle shifter.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[LH7]

Back to regular programming.. Am I the only one who isnt thrilled about sending next years 2nd pick for Ryan? Meant to be a good draft, the last uncompromised and its likely to be around ~30 based on our projected output. Naturally this post is rubbish if we finish top 4 but that is unlikely.

I agree, I don't love the deal.

 

[holllywood]

Everyone acts out of self-interest.

We pulled out of the Aleer deal because the cost outweighed the benefit, simple as that.

Wilkie made us renegotiate his current deal due to self interest.

Players and clubs do this all the time but clubs are held to different standards to the player.

The optics of us pulling out might look bad now, but it’ll happen again and it won’t affect future trades/nominations moving forward.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Could we meet Leek halfway and offer him a vfl spot???

 

[SainterinSydney]

So what is he saying, we have to agree to whatever GWS asks in a trade because we owe Leek something for making a very lucrative offer to him? Any deal, unless unrestricted free agent (or unmatched restricted free agent) or delisted free agent, is going to be subject to a trade. He is just upset he was going to get paid overs and isn't now.

 

[Sainter62]

Yep and can stay on the Rookie List.

Guys, I am 100% on the money here.

It's not contract value, its not draft value, when push has come to shove we have prioritised the players to be traded in that we needed / wanted to prioritise, didn't want to bend over for Geelong with a contracted Marshall, and didn't get any bites / Steele had no interest in leaving.

It 100% makes sense.

Reckon we still need to delist Carroll or Dow and re-rookie them given we have given them a contract for 2026.

both are contracted

 

[The_Steadier]

Back to regular programming.. Am I the only one who isnt thrilled about sending next years 2nd pick for Ryan? Meant to be a good draft, the last uncompromised and its likely to be around ~30 based on our projected output. Naturally this post is rubbish if we finish top 4 but that is unlikely.

I dare say we (like with flanders) were happy to pay slight overs to avoid haggling and get it done quick.

Given the aleer backlash- we would have wanted to stitch them up before flanders and ryan had a chance to get cold feet and worry the same could happen to them.

Plus getting them done quick helps us defend ourselves- ie the aleer situation is an outlier/one off.

We get deals done quick and easy- players (and their managers) should rest easy and not be afraid to nominate us.

 

[Captain Paddy]

I’m actually really jealous of the bulldogs for winning this trade period by landing Buddarick

 

[SainterinSydney]

I’m actually really jealous of the bulldogs for winning this trade period by landing Buddarick

You mean Conor Bongohead

 

[RWB4life]

1.5m guaranteed over 4 years. So guaranteed 375k with incentives to reach 750k i assume. Definitely worth a 3rd rounder.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Fair, i think its silly to keep a clear ones player (likely on 1s salary) as back up but thats just an opinion.

Has Ross indicated that Ro will be back up?

Or is this just supporters guessing that will be the case?

Okay so now we are in a different conversation which is about how "hard" we try in these discussions.

Agree we probably tried about as hard with Roma as we did with Wilkie.We listened out of respect. Thats enough. We are happy to keep the asset, so WTF would we try hard to get rid of it.

A different conversation is how "hard" we tried with Aleer. This is also tied up with 2 things that are being conflated together. Some people are saying we walked away from negotiating with the Giants. Others are saying we walked away from our interest in Aleer. These are actually 2 overlapping but different things.

The media narrative seems to be we walked away from Aleer. However, the fact we offered the F2 to GWS BEFORE we spent it elsewhere tells me we walked away from the Giants, and Aleer was just the collatoral damage.

As far as I can tell we had one F2 to spend. We offered it for Aleer FIRST (and asked for change). GWS said no. We then offered it to WC for Ryan (and asked for change). They said yes.

That sequence of events tells me we didnt walk away from interest in Aleer. That tells me we had x amount to spend. There was a queue of players to spend it on. We started with Aleer, but after GWS said no we spent it elsewhere.

For some reason people assume that these discussions have to be drawn out, and dialogue has to go back and forward. I have never understood that. We offered. GWS said no. We left. That was Aleer's window. We wanted him. Its not our fault that GWS wanted to start high, and play some back and forward bidding game we had no interest in. That is on Aleer's management for not getting GWS to accept the first offer.

Now we circle back to a conversation about "how hard did we try to get Aleer." The answer is not very. And he has some right to be pissed about that. But we were getting things done in multiple directions. Everyone in the industry can see that. If he had a better manager, maybe they push GWS to not dick around posturing (like when Dodoro used to open every negotiation with some stupid ask trying to look like a hero. Thats just amatuer crap). They accept our offer and Aleer is a Saint

Message is, get on the train or you get left behind. He missed it. Yes its pretty damn harsh. But at least he can go home to a 3 year contract. Or he has a week to find his way to the Dogs or North. His manager needs to spend more time focused on getting his player to where he wants, and less time throwing the toys out of the cot when things don't work out.

 

[sauce_head]

Saints don't wanna pay him anymore. Let's not overcomplicate it.

Daaaaaah… do I know what rhetorical means?

 

[MrFoster]

Back to regular programming.. Am I the only one who isnt thrilled about sending next years 2nd pick for Ryan? Meant to be a good draft, the last uncompromised and its likely to be around ~30 based on our projected output. Naturally this post is rubbish if we finish top 4 but that is unlikely.

We got a 2027 third back

 

[sauce_head]

Oh look at that. The poor little fella now has a week to get overpaid by somebody else because we told him a week out it wasn’t happening. Pity we didn’t go by “convention” and drag him along until the end and say “no can do sport, back to GWS for you”.
Bloody bad guy StKilda.

 

[Geezington]

First 2 days back at work and all the drama happens what the flip

 

[ScrappyDo]

Agreed.

If you chase someone for 2 years, he then nominates you, and then you walk it back, it’s not a good look.

If it was another club who had done this, we would be saying poor effort!

I think it’s right call, just sits a bit uneasy with me.

Something has occurred for saints to put themselves in a position of a bit of backlash

Sorry but l thing that's just outdated thinking. The AFLPA has been driving deregulation for years and that has the effect of contracts basically being meaningless and an increase in market volatility. The players can't have it all their own way and this is increasingly happening now. It's just a changing landscape, and l don't like it either but it is what it is.

 

[Moquo]

Saints don't wanna pay him anymore. Let's not overcomplicate it.

Saints don't wanna pay gws more. Let's not overcomplicate it.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Saints don't wanna pay him anymore. Let's not overcomplicate it.

You are a paid actor

 

[Broski]

Today has been a continuation of the "lay into the Saints special" over the Aleer stuff. I get it, to the average person it looks a bit rough pulling out of the deal with plenty of time left in the trade period.

However, we are not legally obligated to complete the trade just because Aleer made it his preference to play for us next season. Until the ink has dried, Aleer and his management should have known that this was a possibility.

If I want to buy a car for $20k, but the dealership then says they value it at $30k, I am not obligated to the bank and take out a loan to pay for the price I am not willing to pay. I walk out of the dealership and look for another car.

Papley wanted to get to Carlton, Dunkley wanted to get the Bombers, Daniher wanted to get the Swans, but they didn't because both clubs couldn't agree. Would this be a massive deal if it happened on the final day? Probably not.

I feel bad for Aleer to a degree, but he will still be on an AFL list next season.