List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[sauce_head]

Saints don't wanna pay him anymore. Let's not overcomplicate it.

I’m confused by complexity so oversimplify difficult concepts to make myself feed better able to cope in a world that is ever increasing in complexity. Let’s not over complicate it.

 

[sauce_head]

You are a paid actor. Let’s not over complicate it.

fixed the above for you.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

You just know that no trades are going to get done, and this freaking Aleer stuff will be talked about to death over the weekend. 10 day trade period melts minds

 

[SainterinSydney]

Will we get an F grading for trade period because we made Aleer and his manager cry?

 

[StCicatriz]

The behaviour from geelong with Marshall isn't the same as our behaviour with aleer.

Marshall is contracted so there's an expectation and understanding that the trade won't happen.

Aleer is uncontracted so there's the expectation that if a trade won't happen he can still get to the club.

We've completely given up when there were still avenues to acquire him. It wasn't about the trade falling through. We have completely readjusted our want for him.

 

[Moquo]

Will we get an F grading for trade period because we made Aleer and his manager cry?

 

[MrFoster]

Will we get an F grading for trade period because we made Aleer and his manager cry?

No we get a A+ for making them cry. Any publicity is good publicity, we are the most talked about / relevant club in the AFL right now!!

 

[SainterinSydney]

I will say one thing, though, it sends a message to the rest of the clubs and our own players that we will not hesitate in being ruthless for the betterment of the St Kilda Football Club.

 

[TheOsprey]

What I don’t understand is, why do players have to come out and publicly
nominate a club if they want out anyway?

Is it just to feed the chickens?

Surely this stuff can be dealt with by the clubs and player without the need to make it all public?

So Marshall is interested in Geelong, and they are interested also. Surely the clubs and player / player management can have a conversation without needing to get the media involved? Then if a deal is done, report it then. But if it’s obvious both parties miles apart, they walk away?

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Apart from the Saints how's about all these trades being done

 

[Sully111]

I think we better be careful. I'm hearing GWS fans are absolutely ropable.... both of them.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

The behaviour from geelong with Marshall isn't the same as our behaviour with aleer.

Marshall is contracted so there's an expectation and understanding that the trade won't happen.

Aleer is uncontracted so there's the expectation that if a trade won't happen he can still get to the club.

We've completely given up when there were still avenues to acquire him. It wasn't about the trade falling through. We have completely readjusted our want for him.

It astonishes me people don’t see this

 

[DT_35]

If it wasn’t for us this would be the most boring trade period of all time….and that’s saying something

 

[SainterinSydney]

I think we better be careful. I'm hearing GWS fans are absolutely ropable.... both of them.

Why would they be angry. They wanted to bloody keep him! Now they either keep him or trade him for a first rounder when desperate Dogs come sniffing .

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Does Tom Morris have a time continum that keeps taking him back one or two years?

First de Goey and now Soldo. While we’re reheating old soup, surely we are a chance for Andrew Gaff or Jared Polec

 

[SainterinSydney]

First de Goey and now Soldo. While we’re reheating old soup, surely we are a chance for Andrew Gaff or Jared Polec

Apparently, just like with the $6million man, Port have the technology to rebuild Soldo.

 

[Plugger35]

Today has been a continuation of the "lay into the Saints special" over the Aleer stuff. I get it, to the average person it looks a bit rough pulling out of the deal with plenty of time left in the trade period.

However, we are not legally obligated to complete the trade just because Aleer made it his preference to play for us next season. Until the ink has dried, Aleer and his management should have known that this was a possibility.

If I want to buy a car for $20k, but the dealership then says they value it at $30k, I am not obligated to the bank and take out a loan to pay for the price I am not willing to pay. I walk out of the dealership and look for another car.

Papley wanted to get to Carlton, Dunkley wanted to get the Bombers, Daniher wanted to get the Swans, but they didn't because both clubs couldn't agree. Would this be a massive deal if it happened on the final day? Probably not.

I feel bad for Aleer to a degree, but he will still be on an AFL list next season.

All the haters that are laying into us for backing out of the Aleer deal would still be laying into us if the deal went ahead and saying that we paid overs for a player that probably wouldn't have been in our best line up so we would've copped it either way.

The haters were just looking for an excuse to lay into us after we've been so successful landing TDK, JSOS, Flanders and Ryan.

 

[phantom13]

What you miss is by letting the Aleer camp know now, it gives him a chance to still find a new home. If we jerked them along for the week and then failed to work a trade then he is stuck at GWS.

We actually did him and his flog of a manager a favour.

I can see this angle, but thats not how its reported. Again, im not really presenting my position, im presenting the narrative of every non saints person.

I’d hazard a guess it’s the latter. If you’re getting a sense the 3rd party is unwilling to negotiate and are steadfast with their position, the sensible thing to do is shake hands and you move on.

These discussions have been going on for sometime( well before trade period had commenced)and it’s quite clear GWS aren’t budging with their demands, and that’s fair enough.

Again, thats fair, its just not the accepted and known process.

I do think both TDK and Ro can play in the same team especially with the bench increasing to 5. I do love the idea of finally having forwards over 200 cm up there next season--Ming (let's pray) and TDK/Ro. At best, they stop an intercept and allow our crummers to either bottle it in or score.

I dont (at least effectively) but thats just speculation and opinon, i hope im proven wrong.

Okay so now we are in a different conversation which is about how "hard" we try in these discussions.

Agree we probably tried about as hard with Roma as we did with Wilkie.We listened out of respect. Thats enough. We are happy to keep the asset, so WTF would we try hard to get rid of it.

A different conversation is how "hard" we tried with Aleer. This is also tied up with 2 things that are being conflated together. Some people are saying we walked away from negotiating with the Giants. Others are saying we walked away from our interest in Aleer. These are actually 2 overlapping but different things.

The media narrative seems to be we walked away from Aleer. However, the fact we offered the F2 to GWS BEFORE we spent it elsewhere tells me we walked away from the Giants, and Aleer was just the collatoral damage.

As far as I can tell we had one F2 to spend. We offered it for Aleer FIRST (and asked for change). GWS said no. We then offered it to WC for Ryan (and asked for change). They said yes.

That sequence of events tells me we didnt walk away from interest in Aleer. That tells me we had x amount to spend. There was a queue of players to spend it on. We started with Aleer, but after GWS said no we spent it elsewhere.

For some reason people assume that these discussions have to be drawn out, and dialogue has to go back and forward. I have never understood that. We offered. GWS said no. We left. That was Aleer's window. We wanted him. Its not our fault that GWS wanted to start high, and play some back and forward bidding game we had no interest in. That is on Aleer's management for not getting GWS to accept the first offer.

Now we circle back to a conversation about "how hard did we try to get Aleer." The answer is not very. And he has some right to be pissed about that. But we were getting things done in multiple directions. Everyone in the industry can see that. If he had a better manager, maybe they push GWS to not dick around posturing (like when Dodoro used to open every negotiation with some stupid ask trying to look like a hero. Thats just amatuer crap). They accept our offer and Aleer is a Saint

Message is, get on the train or you get left behind. He missed it. Yes its pretty damn harsh. But at least he can go home to a 3 year contract. Or he has a week to find his way to the Dogs or North. His manager needs to spend more time focused on getting his player to where he wants, and less time throwing the toys out of the cot when things don't work out.

Yeh, fair points. There is certainly an argument to be made that weve left the table because it was clear it wasnt gonna happen but the counter would be the number of deals that get done at the 11th hour.

Again, i agree with the decision, i dont even personally hate the process but were getting whacked for the reasons i outlined.

A lot more teams will be running two rucks next season with the new 5 on the bench/no sub rule. Personally, I still don’t like the idea of playing two full time ruckmen in the same side in most cases, but I don’t feel like Marshall fits that bill at all.

He’s undersized and always has struggled against the big boys, in this case he’ll absolutely dominate 2nd rucks and should give our mids an advantage. And he was drafted as a fwd and has decent forward craft, and he’ll also take a lot of pressure off King and provide another big target. Also our best seasons in the Marshall era were when Ryder was at the club in this exact scenario.

Yeh, i meant the first para echoes my sentiment entirely. Id rather play Keeler (who is a better natural forward and worse ruck) if hes gonna play 75% game time forward and 15% rucking but both are absolutely options.

Brisbane beg to differ. On the biggest day of the year they ran with two rucks, both of whom have very little forward craft.

Anyway, I was talking about Ro... not Aleer.

We have sat with Geelong. We've listened to what they've offered & whatever they proposed wasn't what we would consider as enough to move Ro on.

Our obligation ends there. The obligation moves to Geelong to improve that offer.

If we refused to even speak with them, then you would have a point.

We know that we have.

Dont agree, Fort isnt a ruckman, thats the whole point, youre better off playing a hack part time ruckman that can do something else.

On the Geelong thing, ive made this clear, we had an obligation to sit down with them nothing more, the Roma comparison was others (saying its the same as what we did with Aleer) but its not, no one is accusing Geelong, as the pursuer, of walking away.

Has Ross indicated that Ro will be back up?

Or is this just supporters guessing that will be the case?

Pure speculation, i think Ross has said he sees them both in the same team. I dont.

 

[Leap of Faith]

It astonishes me people don’t see this

Aleer has a contract offer from GWS. He's not left high and dry. He's had an offer for months. He hasn't chosen to sign it coz the Saints were interested. Now they're not because the asking price is too high. Absolutely nothing wrong with this. All this softc*** BS about Aleer being so upset and how bad the Saints are. F*** off. Cats have been stringing Marshall along all year as well. "Yep we want you. Ask for a trade". But at the pointy end the price is too high for them. Exactly the same scenario.
So Aleer is not contracted. Big deal. It's not like he's been delisted and been thrown a lifeline that's been withdrawn. Sign for GWS and get the f*** on with it. And btw Jason Macartney can go and get f***** for pulling out the sob story card. Improve your offer to Aleer and sign him up then. Or not. Either way stfu and get over it.

 

[Moquo]

Why would they be angry. They wanted to bloody keep him! Now they either keep him or trade him for a first rounder when desperate Dogs come sniffing .

Exactly. Gws screwed us in negotiations, and won the deal. Congrats to McCartney!

 

[Parkysp]

It astonishes me people don’t see this

and after being an I.T contractor for 30 years it astonishes me that people don't understand that until there are two signatures on an employment contract that there is no job. Never went out to celebrate until the paperwork was done after a verbal as was always wary of the rug being pulled because s**t happens. And not always in control of the person that gave the verbal.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

The behaviour from geelong with Marshall isn't the same as our behaviour with aleer.

Marshall is contracted so there's an expectation and understanding that the trade won't happen.

Aleer is uncontracted so there's the expectation that if a trade won't happen he can still get to the club.

We've completely given up when there were still avenues to acquire him. It wasn't about the trade falling through. We have completely readjusted our want for him.

Yeah well, it looked good until Jsos came onboard, then didn't.
It got to the point that when Gws unreasonably requested an F2
And we needed that F2 for Ryan.
We just went, you know what, we actually dont need him.
Byeeee

 

[billings2paddy]

Will we get an F grading for trade period because we made Aleer and his manager cry?

We probably were going to get an F anyway according to Barrett

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Apparently, just like with the $6million man, Port have the technology to rebuild Soldo.

I’d give him a miss and enquire about Sandilands.

Surely the big guy’s grown to about 273cm by now

 

[Dr Spaceman]

We probably were going to get an F anyway according to Barrett

Ironically, as I couldn’t give an F about Barrett.