List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

[Section 5]

It’s a good ratio. Recent injury record is as bad or worse than Allen, and we’d have to trade for him which I’m not keen on.

My other worry with both - their best goal tallies are when they’ve been the main target in a bad team (you can quibble with this for Lewis - maybe Gunners was).

There is a certain fakeness to those numbers; someone has to be targeted inside 50 on a bad team.

It has led to the crimes of the watermann AA and larkey AA in recent years over Joe because we’ve had functioning forward lines around him. And still he put up these numbers:



Given concerns, prioritise the guy who won’t cost you a draft pick (or two) imo.

Bolded. I am all for looking elsewhere that won't cost much in the draft just money and later picks
Find a younger player OOC and trust your judgement that he may turn into a good player.
Offer overs to lure him to Brisbane
Halfway through 2025 a few should pop up showing promise.
Who knows halfway through 2025 we may have someone stepping up in our own ranks.

The other option is the draft. When someone bids on Annabel we pass and select the best KPF available.

 

[briztoon]

Bolded. I am all for looking elsewhere that won't cost much in the draft just money and later picks
Find a younger player OOC and trust your judgement that he may turn into a good player.
Offer overs to lure him to Brisbane
Halfway through 2025 a few should pop up showing promise.
Who knows halfway through 2025 we may have someone stepping up in our own ranks.

The other option is the draft. When someone bids on Annabel we pass and select the best KPF available.

Your not going to get a younger player, who shows promise, for later picks.

Their current club will point to the contract being offered and ask for an appropriate pick.

We won’t have any draft position leverage, as any picks worth points will be committed to matching bids, and we won’t have a credible PSD threat.

 

[irel]

Bolded. I am all for looking elsewhere that won't cost much in the draft just money and later picks
Find a younger player OOC and trust your judgement that he may turn into a good player.
Offer overs to lure him to Brisbane
Halfway through 2025 a few should pop up showing promise.
Who knows halfway through 2025 we may have someone stepping up in our own ranks.

The other option is the draft. When someone bids on Annabel we pass and select the best KPF available.

Not sure that's a good strategy S5. A bid on Annabel would likely come inside top 10. Passing on a known possible top academy talent, on whom plenty of development has been spent to take a speculative chance with pick 18? hmmm, naaah.

 

[Section 5]

Your not going to get a younger player, who shows promise, for later picks.

Their current club will point to the contract being offered and ask for an appropriate pick.

We won’t have any draft position leverage, as any picks worth points will be committed to matching bids, and we won’t have a credible PSD threat.

I don't really agree with the bolded.
You mean someone like Dev, Brain, Reville and Smith from the Lions if a club offered them good money and they were OOC.
We know these guys would get regular games of AFL in a suitable team.
But other AFL fans would not know them from a bar of soap.
Just like most of us Lions fans would not know a promising player in another club. That why you have recruiting officers.
Our guys are not KPF players (maybe Smith) but i don't see much difference in draft capital.
I did say shows promise, not standing out at AFL level.
None of our guys above are going to demand an earlier pick like below 36. Most likely 40+

Trading in a player is a mindset of the club. If that's their plan, then they will adjust in regard to points etc.
Posters were talking about Allen & Lewis. Now they will cost you draft capital, and all the points juggling that applies to getting Annabel etc on draft night.
Getting a promising player just costs a lot less draft capital in my opinion.

The club may very well just go to the draft again with Annabel etc.
However, at what stage do we have to many midfielders when we are still in a premiership window (hopefully).

You follow the draft so in your opinion what draft pick (a big guess at this stage) will the best say 5 KPF go for if we go down that possibly longer path and maybe not select Annabel. Or could we get both?

 

[dlanod]

Bolded. I am all for looking elsewhere that won't cost much in the draft just money and later picks
Find a younger player OOC and trust your judgement that he may turn into a good player.
Offer overs to lure him to Brisbane
Halfway through 2025 a few should pop up showing promise.
Who knows halfway through 2025 we may have someone stepping up in our own ranks.

Kind of described how we ended up Brandon Ryan, but that's the gamble.

 

[Perrip]

You follow the draft so in your opinion what draft pick (a big guess at this stage) will the best say 5 KPF go for if we go down that possibly longer path and maybe not select Annabel. Or could we get both?

There's a few Tall Forward players who are highly ranked at the moment. Whether that still applies at the draft is another thing.
25 in 2025: A look ahead to next year’s top prospects

Noah Chamberlain [Swans Academy]
Cooper Duff-Tytler [Calder Cannons/Vic Metro]
Louis Emmett [Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro]
Archie Ludowyke [Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro]
Aidan Schubert [Central District/South Australia]
Liam Hetherton [Murray Bushrangers]

 

[Section 5]

Kind of described how we ended up Brandon Ryan, but that's the gamble.

Yes, it's a gamble and Ryan was one along with Oscar

 

[briztoon]

I don't really agree with the bolded.
You mean someone like Dev, Brain, Reville and Smith from the Lions if a club offered them good money and they were OOC.
We know these guys would get regular games of AFL in a suitable team.
But other AFL fans would not know them from a bar of soap.
Just like most of us Lions fans would not know a promising player in another club. That why you have recruiting officers.
Our guys are not KPF players (maybe Smith) but i don't see much difference in draft capital.
I did say shows promise, not standing out at AFL level.
None of our guys above are going to demand an earlier pick like below 36. Most likely 40+

There's two differentiations here though.

You're talking a KPF. There's a general scarcity of good KPF's in the league, and teams try and tie up promising young KPP's until they prove they can't make it.

Secondly, as you noted, the players from our list aren't KPP's, except for Smith. And Smith is a ruck. And we drafted them. We didn't trade for them.

As I mentioned, any picks we have this year in the first 3 rounds, are likely paying for academy talent. We might have an available pick in the fourth round, but like last year, if we end up with any left over picks worth points, we're probably going to try and trade them in to the future.

Trading in a player is a mindset of the club. If that's their plan, then they will adjust in regard to points etc.
Posters were talking about Allen & Lewis. Now they will cost you draft capital, and all the points juggling that applies to getting Annabel etc on draft night.

Allen is a restricted free agent. He won't cost a single pick if he gets a contract that triggers band 1 compensation for West Coast.

A perennially injured Lewis probably costs us our first round pick.

Getting a promising player just costs a lot less draft capital in my opinion.

I disagree. Teams don't want to give up promising young KPF's.

Brandon Ryan wasn't a promising young player. He was/is a speculative, bordering on older player now. And he still cost us Gunston and a future second round pick.

Promising young KPF forward on another teams list, Archer Reid at West Coast, and they won't let him go.

Speculative KPF on another teams list, Harry Lemmey at Carlton. They won't let him go, unless they are sure he won't make it. And he'd sooner head home to his native SA, before considering a move to QLD.

The club may very well just go to the draft again with Annabel etc.
However, at what stage do we have to many midfielders when we are still in a premiership window (hopefully).

Our academy looks like producing quite a few mids and flankers over the next couple of drafts. Under the new draft rules, we're at best going to get two a year, if we stay at the top of the ladder.

However we do have a possible ruck in this years draft, Isaac Waller.

But the academy KPP most of us are watching is Max Boothey for the 2027 draft.

You follow the draft so in your opinion what draft pick (a big guess at this stage) will the best say 5 KPF go for if we go down that possibly longer path and maybe not select Annabel. Or could we get both?

Way too early to look at this years draft croft and have any idea about draft ranges. Especially KPP's, as they often don't really come on until after the U18 Championships.

One kid Perrip missed is Cody Curtain from WA. Word is he measured over 200cm at the WA preseason WAFL Colts combine (I'm still waiting to see if QLD has had a preseason academy combine this year, we usually do). He played mostly defence last year, but was thrown forward late in the WA Colts season and kicked a couple of bags as an underager. Potential smokey to move up this years draft rankings.

Otherwise I want to see how Floyd Burmeister performs this year as a 19 year old, who missed out on last years draft. We were linked to him before the draft, as a possible late pick, and he might be a good mid season draft prospect.

 

[Dalions]

Not sure that's a good strategy S5. A bid on Annabel would likely come inside top 10. Passing on a known possible top academy talent, on whom plenty of development has been spent to take a speculative chance with pick 18? hmmm, naaah.

Pick 18, which will likely end up pick 23 or similar.

 

[Section 5]

There's two differentiations here though.

You're talking a KPF. There's a general scarcity of good KPF's in the league, and teams try and tie up promising young KPP's until they prove they can't make it.

Secondly, as you noted, the players from our list aren't KPP's, except for Smith. And Smith is a ruck. And we drafted them. We didn't trade for them.

As I mentioned, any picks we have this year in the first 3 rounds, are likely paying for academy talent. We might have an available pick in the fourth round, but like last year, if we end up with any left over picks worth points, we're probably going to try and trade them in to the future.


Allen is a restricted free agent. He won't cost a single pick if he gets a contract that triggers band 1 compensation for West Coast.

A perennially injured Lewis probably costs us our first round pick.

I disagree. Teams don't want to give up promising young KPF's.

Brandon Ryan wasn't a promising young player. He was/is a speculative, bordering on older player now. And he still cost us Gunston and a future second round pick.

Promising young KPF forward on another teams list, Archer Reid at West Coast, and they won't let him go.

Speculative KPF on another teams list, Harry Lemmey at Carlton. They won't let him go, unless they are sure he won't make it. And he'd sooner head home to his native SA, before considering a move to QLD.

Our academy looks like producing quite a few mids and flankers over the next couple of drafts. Under the new draft rules, we're at best going to get two a year, if we stay at the top of the ladder.

However we do have a possible ruck in this years draft, Isaac Waller.

But the academy KPP most of us are watching is Max Boothey for the 2027 draft.


Way too early to look at this years draft croft and have any idea about draft ranges. Especially KPP's, as they often don't really come on until after the U18 Championships.

One kid Perrip missed is Cody Curtain from WA. Word is he measured over 200cm at the WA preseason WAFL Colts combine (I'm still waiting to see if QLD has had a preseason academy combine this year, we usually do). He played mostly defence last year, but was thrown forward late in the WA Colts season and kicked a couple of bags as an underager. Potential smokey to move up this years draft rankings.

Otherwise I want to see how Floyd Burmeister performs this year as a 19 year old, who missed out on last years draft. We were linked to him before the draft, as a possible late pick, and he might be a good mid season draft prospect.

We agree to disagree.

Teams may not want to give up promising KPF's as you say, or any promising player for that matter that's OOC.
But if the player wants to leave, his manager and any interested club will find a way.

 

[mpal6]

Bolded. I am all for looking elsewhere that won't cost much in the draft just money and later picks
Find a younger player OOC and trust your judgement that he may turn into a good player.
Offer overs to lure him to Brisbane
Halfway through 2025 a few should pop up showing promise.
Who knows halfway through 2025 we may have someone stepping up in our own ranks.

The other option is the draft. When someone bids on Annabel we pass and select the best KPF available.

Our 101 trick currently is to save the picks for academy / father son and either trade for mature talent who are on the outer or via free agency decent or semi-decent options who are operating under injury cloud.

I don't see them changing tactics as we have more hits than misses so far. Daniher, McCarthy, Lyons, Ah Chee was thereabouts, Doedee still pending verdict etc. Based on that strike record its either Lewis or Allen for us.

 

[briztoon]

We agree to disagree.

Teams may not want to give up promising KPF's as you say, or any promising player for that matter that's OOC.
But if the player wants to leave, his manager and any interested club will find a way.

I can show you a heap of decent, younger mids or flankers who moved clubs relatively cheaply. Harder to find a young KPF who moved clubs cheaply, that went on to be a decent player in the AFL.

Schache left us for picks 25 & 40. He was a player who wanted to go home. Unless it was a player a club wanted to get rid of, KPF's rarely are cheap to trade for.

 

[mpal6]

There's two differentiations here though.

You're talking a KPF. There's a general scarcity of good KPF's in the league, and teams try and tie up promising young KPP's until they prove they can't make it.

Secondly, as you noted, the players from our list aren't KPP's, except for Smith. And Smith is a ruck. And we drafted them. We didn't trade for them.

As I mentioned, any picks we have this year in the first 3 rounds, are likely paying for academy talent. We might have an available pick in the fourth round, but like last year, if we end up with any left over picks worth points, we're probably going to try and trade them in to the future.


Allen is a restricted free agent. He won't cost a single pick if he gets a contract that triggers band 1 compensation for West Coast.

A perennially injured Lewis probably costs us our first round pick.

I disagree. Teams don't want to give up promising young KPF's.

Brandon Ryan wasn't a promising young player. He was/is a speculative, bordering on older player now. And he still cost us Gunston and a future second round pick.

Promising young KPF forward on another teams list, Archer Reid at West Coast, and they won't let him go.

Speculative KPF on another teams list, Harry Lemmey at Carlton. They won't let him go, unless they are sure he won't make it. And he'd sooner head home to his native SA, before considering a move to QLD.

Our academy looks like producing quite a few mids and flankers over the next couple of drafts. Under the new draft rules, we're at best going to get two a year, if we stay at the top of the ladder.

However we do have a possible ruck in this years draft, Isaac Waller.

But the academy KPP most of us are watching is Max Boothey for the 2027 draft.


Way too early to look at this years draft croft and have any idea about draft ranges. Especially KPP's, as they often don't really come on until after the U18 Championships.

One kid Perrip missed is Cody Curtain from WA. Word is he measured over 200cm at the WA preseason WAFL Colts combine (I'm still waiting to see if QLD has had a preseason academy combine this year, we usually do). He played mostly defence last year, but was thrown forward late in the WA Colts season and kicked a couple of bags as an underager. Potential smokey to move up this years draft rankings.

Otherwise I want to see how Floyd Burmeister performs this year as a 19 year old, who missed out on last years draft. We were linked to him before the draft, as a possible late pick, and he might be a good mid season draft prospect.

Charlie Hewitt could be an option too. Back in academy for 2025 as overeager.

 

[Section 5]

I can show you a heap of decent, younger mids or flankers who moved clubs relatively cheaply. Harder to find a young KPF who moved clubs cheaply, that went on to be a decent player in the AFL.

Schache left us for picks 25 & 40. He was a player who wanted to go home. Unless it was a player a club wanted to get rid of, KPF's rarely are cheap to trade for.

19. Melbourne signs Tom Fullerton. Brisbane receives Pick 47.

 

[briztoon]

Charlie Hewitt could be an option too. Back in academy for 2025 as overeager.

Just my opinion, but this years top age academy squad lacks in the KPP department, apart from Waller in the ruck, so needed to find some KPP's from somewhere for the structure of the team.

The only time Hewitt has stood out, was in the U16 academy team, when he played as an U17 over ager.

 

[briztoon]

19. Melbourne signs Tom Fullerton. Brisbane receives Pick 47.

View attachment 2222517

Are you trying to use Fullerton as an example of a decent young KPF?

This exactly proves my point. I'm sorry S5, you're really reaching at straws here.

If we thought Fullerton actually might make it, we would have held on to him, because we went in to 2024 with Darcy Gardiner starting as our third KPF.

 

[briztoon]

And Fullerton couldn't get a game at the Dees, a team devoid of key forwards.

 

[Section 5]

Are you trying to use Fullerton as an example of a decent young KPF?

This exactly proves my point. I'm sorry S5, you're really reaching at straws here.

If we thought Fullerton actually might make it, we would have held on to him, because we went in to 2024 with Darcy Gardiner starting as our third KPF.

No, my mistake
I saw you mentioned Schache and had a brain fade and looked up Fullerton for some reason.
So, apologies for that error.

 

[Tom14]

Your not going to get a younger player, who shows promise, for later picks.

Their current club will point to the contract being offered and ask for an appropriate pick.

We won’t have any draft position leverage, as any picks worth points will be committed to matching bids, and we won’t have a credible PSD threat.

Also a younger KPF doesn’t help us right now. I want to keep drafting higher than we should due to academy rortzzz while filling list holes through free agency.

Have your cake and eat it too should continue to be our list management strategy.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Yes, it's a gamble and Ryan was one along with Oscar

I'm not sure we really went after Ryan, the whole Gunston thing going back to the Hawks was thrust upon us and we just made the deal work best we could. I'm not convinced there was a white board in the Lions recruiting room with Ryan's name and a red ring around it saying he was a target. I'm thinking it was more, "bugger, what have they got we could use that they may give up". He was a speculative investment that hasn't paid off, I hope I'm wrong, but he was work a crack given the situation we found ourselves.

 

[dlanod]

I'm not sure we really went after Ryan, the whole Gunston thing going back to the Hawks was thrust upon us and we just made the deal work best we could. I'm not convinced there was a white board in the Lions recruiting room with Ryan's name and a red ring around it saying he was a target. I'm thinking it was more, "bugger, what have they got we could use that they may give up". He was a speculative investment that hasn't paid off, I hope I'm wrong, but he was work a crack given the situation we found ourselves.

Depends what you want by "went after".

He was on our radar around the MSD time. When Gunston wanted out the Hawks' list was reviewed and with KPF already identified as one of our gaps (this is before Morris and Lloyd falling to us in the draft) we went hard at him to talk him into asking to be part of the trade. So yes, we went after him, but also yes it was only after Gunston wanted out - we didn't exactly put prework into convincing him to ask for a trade, like many clubs will.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I'm not sure we really went after Ryan, the whole Gunston thing going back to the Hawks was thrust upon us and we just made the deal work best we could. I'm not convinced there was a white board in the Lions recruiting room with Ryan's name and a red ring around it saying he was a target. I'm thinking it was more, "bugger, what have they got we could use that they may give up". He was a speculative investment that hasn't paid off, I hope I'm wrong, but he was work a crack given the situation we found ourselves.

On reflection it might have been post Joe planning but we only had the list spot and draft capital when Gunston left

 

[Clarkythelion]

Are you trying to use Fullerton as an example of a decent young KPF?

This exactly proves my point. I'm sorry S5, you're really reaching at straws here.

If we thought Fullerton actually might make it, we would have held on to him, because we went in to 2024 with Darcy Gardiner starting as our third KPF.

Fullerton got a much better offer $ from Melbourne than the Lions were offering, much better. They said he would have more opportunity than being behind Hipwood, Daniher, Oskar and Fort and at the time it did look like Gawn needed help as teams with 2 ruckman were beating up on Gawn. Seems the recruiters at Melbourne had different thoughts on Tom than the coaching staff whom haven't given him a chance despite some good numbers in the reserves and him being the travelling emergency a few times he just hasn't go a run. Maybe this year will be different but I doubt it.

 

[Gadzorks]

The more I think about a 12 month point setback for keidean the more worried I get.

It would be Justin Clarke level devastating if he doesn't get back to at least pre injury level.

All his injury teammates from last year are back and ready to go (pretty much) or on track at least. I imagine it would be a very lonely feeling right now.

 

[Elixuh]

The more I think about a 12 month point setback for keidean the more worried I get.

It would be Justin Clarke level devastating if he doesn't get back to at least pre injury level.

All his injury teammates from last year are back and ready to go (pretty much) or on track at least. I imagine it would be a very lonely feeling right now.

I think 2025 for Kiddy will be about getting back to AFL footy and building a base for 2026. By the sounds of it, best case, he is playing decent footy towards the very end of the season. I think that’s all entirely acceptable tbh. Not all rehabs are the same and if it takes Kiddy a little longer then that’s fine. We are lucky in that we have some decent cover and options for his role in the meantime.