List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[saintbill]

Are we really melting because a 2nd round pick played a decent game in the SANFL?

Hardly a melt. Plus, I said it draft night, and I have said it consistently since. Got nothing to do with 1 good game.

Whitlock was an obvious need. A big forward that can pinch hit in the ruck.

We can't be that confident in Keeler if he is still being offered 1 year deals.

Putting all our eggs in the Max King basket is dumb. There are obvious gaps in the list, last year was an opportunity to fill one.

Instead we reached for Barrat who may or may not be big enough to play key position at AFL level.

Early signs are that is going to be a hard task for him.

 

[billings2paddy]

That would be great!

Winning games of footy is way better than losing them.

No doubt you're hoping for another shit year next year so we can get another low draft pick?

Maybe I would enjoy football more if I enjoyed the losses every week

I didn't enjoy 2000, 2001 or 2002 but, I enjoyed the next 15 years of watching Roo,kosi,dal,bj and montagna.
I'm happy with some short term pain for long term gain.

 

[jumperfan]

Hardly a melt. Plus, I said it draft night, and I have said it consistently since. Got nothing to do with 1 good game.

Whitlock was an obvious need. A big forward that can pinch hit in the ruck.

We can't be that confident in Keeler if he is still being offered 1 year deals.

Putting all our eggs in the Max King basket is dumb. There are obvious gaps in the list, last year was an opportunity to fill one.

Instead we reached for Barrat who may or may not be big enough to play key position at AFL level.

Early signs are that is going to be a hard task for him.

This is just a stupid take. We need key position depth all over the ground. If we took Whitlock I have no doubt you’d be complaining that we didn’t take a key defender instead.

 

[Broski]

I'd love nothing more than for us to have a great offseason - health and player movement wise - and watch everything start to finally click. Surely we are due for a fixture that isn't a ball breaker and derails our season before it begins? We can hope.

The media pile on, which many can argue is warranted but majority of it just dross made from journalists who give opinions based on gut feel, has been building as the season has progressed and has made this year more sour.

Maybe, I am too optimistic, but I just want a season where we prove everyone wrong.

 

[PJays]

so were 3-3 against bottom 9 teams and Richmond and North are 4-6 (Essendon who argurably look like the worst team in footy right now are 6-2, a record we almost certainly wont match).

We played Sydney with Gulden etc, there's a reason they've won 6 of their last 7.

Don't forget they played 2 grand finals in the past 3 seasons.

Earlier in the year that's a Saints win

We're 3-2 against the teams who aren't in finals contention.

But it's absolutely nuts that we've played Geelong, Freo and Dogs twice.... and every other good team once... but haven't even played Essendon or North.

That's not excuses, it's an observation that the AFL fixture is just absurd.

 

[Minga]

Which ones? 23 disposals? Cool, hes always gotten a decent bit of the footy.

2 contested possesions, 3 tackles, 69% disposal efficiency.

Hes a liability at this point.

Doesn’t move the needle for ya?

 

[phantom13]

Fully fit We are better than west coast north Richmond and Essendon.

So, no I don’t think we look bottom 3.

You need your kids to develop and then usurp your poor kicks though.

You can’t or maybe at this stage of our development we can’t just plug in kids and expect them to deliver.

My perspective is that our best performed players most weeks are all 1-4 year players.

When are we fully fit? Ever?

Part of the issue.

Ok that's fine, that's your opinion, but just understand that isn't backed up by the data at this point.

Really depends on the stats. Equal wins with the team in 3rd thats a stat that supports it.

Ultimately its all opinion, i think we look bottom 6 because i think the Eagles are dead last and the group above that between 12th and 17th is pretty even in terms of performance its just profile thats different (Richmond are a bunch of babies playing above expectation and Carlton is a fully formed list that is playing way below).

Were a building team thats extremely inconsistent but has a really nicely formed core of kids.

 

[phantom13]

Doesn’t move the needle for ya?

Doesnt offset his bad and hes in the age group that wont be relevant when it matters.

Hes also ****ing awful defensively.

 

[St Neil]

Now we are chasing another one in Aleer. Wonder when we will prioritise a forward?

Barrat over Whitlock was an odd call.

Last year Barrat also lead the Pioneers goal kicking after six matches with 18-18 (36 scoring shots) before they swung him into defence.

He can play at both ends. A very versatile and talented player.

 

[phantom13]

Last year Barrat also lead the Pioneers goal kicking after six matches with 18-18 (36 scoring shots) before they swung him into defence.

He can play at both ends. A very versatile and talented player.

Barrat and Tauru both seem to be players who could play at either end.

Along with Camma we have a good degree of flexibility.

I like Keeler forward/ruck and think that balances the team better (plus i just like Keeler in general, looks like a ****ing unicorn developing) but you could roll all those magnets around and really lose nothing.

 

[L_W_P]

I’m not sure why Port would need to bring over a mate for Nas when one of the arguments for Nas going to Port is so he can play with his mates.

If you believe the scuttlebutt, part of Nas' issue with the Saints was that Keeler & Windy weren't named in our "Future Best Team" that was presented to him.

If we are only offering 1 or 2 year deals to these guys then Port might look to offer them longer deals as a way to entice Nas.

Makes it much harder for us if 2 or 3 of them ask for trades vs just Nas alone.

 

[St Neil]

Barrat and Tauru both seem to be players who could play at either end.

Along with Camma we have a good degree of flexibility.

I like Keeler forward/ruck and think that balances the team better (plus i just like Keeler in general, looks like a ****ing unicorn developing) but you could roll all those magnets around and really lose nothing.

Barrat also had a run in the midfield and did very well.

He won the Pioneers B&F last year.

I really like him, but he has been ill for much of this year. Give him a full pre-season and good health. He might surprise some people.

 

[saintbill]

This is just a stupid take. We need key position depth all over the ground. If we took Whitlock I have no doubt you’d be complaining that we didn’t take a key defender instead.

Yeah okay, so take somebody that can absolutely be a key defender then. You dont reach for a 194cm undersized defender, after already taking 2 defenders with your first 2 picks, none of which are key position players.

Before you start I understand Tauru and Trav could play elsewhere, but they all played junior footy in the backline.

Taking Whitlock over Barrat was the obvious prudent list management decision. Instead we got cute and reached for Barrat, rather than take the obvious slider that fills a glaring need.

Barrat may still do it, but far less likely to hold down a key position than the 200cm+ mobile bloke with good hands that can also pinch hit in the ruck that most thought was a top 20 prospect.

Here we are 12 months later needing to chase Aleer because we are still no closer to solving the KPD problem.

It's early days, but if you have your time again you are taking Whitlock over Barrat all day long, which many of us pointed out draft night.

Hardly a stupid take at all, in fact it is a ridiculously obvious one.

 

[gringo2011]

Oh this crap again. Well I’d take Maxy hall ahead of all of them maybe bar Freija …

Why is that relevant? He wasn't in that draft. We need to over achieve to keep ahead of sides ahead of us on the ladder. Just because we didn't blow a pick we took in the rookie draft doesn't mean we can go back to bed.

We need to be drafting a couple of high end kids every draft and then win a few of these rookie, mid season and late picks on top of that to make up ground. If sides like Geelong and Dogs do it instead we need to make even more ground up.

Hastie looks okay so far but it hurts us when others grab good kids and put themselves ahead of us even further. Hopefully he's just a slow burn. He has some good traits.

 

[stavro#4]

If you believe the scuttlebutt, part of Nas' issue with the Saints was that Keeler & Windy weren't named in our "Future Best Team" that was presented to him.

If we are only offering 1 or 2 year deals to these guys then Port might look to offer them longer deals as a way to entice Nas.

Makes it much harder for us if 2 or 3 of them ask for trades vs just Nas alone.

That “scuttlebutt” came from Brad Hardie.

A month ago he ran with breaking news that Nas had re-signed.

Hardly a reliable source for anything but BS

 

[saintbill]

Last year Barrat also lead the Pioneers goal kicking after six matches with 18-18 (36 scoring shots) before they swung him into defence.

He can play at both ends. A very versatile and talented player.

Has spent zero time forward in the 2s a year that I am aware of and I have seen plenty of Zebs footy.

Sounds like we see him as a defender. Has really struggled at full back.

Maybe there is a role for him elsewhere, but doesn't change the fact we had a top 20 prospect on the table in a position we desperately need to recruit for, and we went with a bloke that may be a forward, maybe a back, maybe it's mid now. Who knows.

Just keep it simple next time. Whitlock was the obvious call.

 

[gringo2011]

Don’t think this is near our worst for the last 25 years. The period when Cho’s heroes would kick 3 goals 14 to half time was much worse

At least we’re building towards something now, instead of spinning tires overpaying spuds like Gresham, Billings and the like

Except a lot of people thought the same thing back then. No more Beau Maisters and finally at the draft picking up elite kids like Paddy, Hugh, Dunny, Billing etc. At least we have a better proven recruiter this time.

None of the talent we've picked up since Riewoldt has been actualised elite until Nas. The wait for it to turn into a drawn out painful process instead of a celebration is absolute shit IMO. Our only joy has ben soured.

 

[phantom13]

Yeah okay, so take somebody that can absolutely be a key defender then. You dont reach for a 194cm undersized defender, after already taking 2 defenders with your first 2 picks, none of which are key position players.

Before you start I understand Tauru and Trav could play elsewhere, but they all played junior footy in the backline.

Taking Whitlock over Barrat was the obvious prudent list management decision. Instead we got cute and reached for Barrat, rather than take the obvious slider that fills a glaring need.

Barrat may still do it, but far less likely to hold down a key position than the 200cm+ mobile bloke with good hands that can also pinch hit in the ruck that most thought was a top 20 prospect.

Here we are 12 months later needing to chase Aleer because we are still no closer to solving the KPD problem.

It's early days, but if you have your time again you are taking Whitlock over Barrat all day long, which many of us pointed out draft night.

Hardly a stupid take at all, in fact it is a ridiculously obvious one.

Aleer is 194...

Is 194 actually undersized anymore? Steven May is 190, Taylor is 198 (a whopping 4cm taller), Howard 199 (5cm taller).

Camma is 196cm and my preferred lock down full back. Wilkie plays on the second and Aleer and Tauru (pending him playing forward) is my talls in the backline and none of them is 200cm.

 

[stavro#4]

Has spent zero time forward in the 2s a year that I am aware of and I have seen plenty of Zebs footy.

Sounds like we see him as a defender. Has really struggled at full back.

Maybe there is a role for him elsewhere, but doesn't change the fact we had a top 20 prospect on the table in a position we desperately need to recruit for, and we went with a bloke that may be a forward, maybe a back, maybe it's mid now. Who knows.

Just keep it simple next time. Whitlock was the obvious call.

A top 20 prospect that was drafted in the 30s.

That doesn’t make him a top 20 prospect. That makes him a second round pick.

Yeah okay, so take somebody that can absolutely be a key defender then. You dont reach for a 194cm undersized defender, after already taking 2 defenders with your first 2 picks, none of which are key position players.

Before you start I understand Tauru and Trav could play elsewhere, but they all played junior footy in the backline.

Taking Whitlock over Barrat was the obvious prudent list management decision. Instead we got cute and reached for Barrat, rather than take the obvious slider that fills a glaring need.

Barrat may still do it, but far less likely to hold down a key position than the 200cm+ mobile bloke with good hands that can also pinch hit in the ruck that most thought was a top 20 prospect.

Here we are 12 months later needing to chase Aleer because we are still no closer to solving the KPD problem.

It's early days, but if you have your time again you are taking Whitlock over Barrat all day long, which many of us pointed out draft night.

Hardly a stupid take at all, in fact it is a ridiculously obvious one.

194cms with the highest vertical leap in draft history.

Kinda makes a significant difference

 

[phantom13]

Except a lot of people thought the same thing back then. No more Beau Maisters and finally at the draft picking up elite kids like Paddy, Hugh, Dunny, Billing etc. At least we have a better proven recruiter this time.

None of the talent we've picked up since Riewoldt has been actualised elite until Nas. The wait for it to turn into a drawn out painful process instead of a celebration is absolute shit IMO. Our only joy has ben soured.

Im not quite this pessimistic but its a really narrow view to think our kids are OBVIOUSLY better than Richmond, North and Co.

Its also folly to just think the progression will be linear and were just OBVIOUSLY gonna improve and turn into a contender.

I very much like the kids and plan but the progress so far... juries out for me.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I didn't enjoy 2000, 2001 or 2002 but, I enjoyed the next 15 years of watching Roo,kosi,dal,bj and montagna.
I'm happy with some short term pain for long term gain.

You call this short term , its been going on for over 10 years

 

[stavro#4]

Im not quite this pessimistic but its a really narrow view to think our kids are OBVIOUSLY better than Richmond, North and Co.

Its also folly to just think the progression will be linear and were just OBVIOUSLY gonna improve and turn into a contender.

I very much like the kids and plan but the progress so far... juries out for me.

By the same token you can apply it to Richmond north etc and can’t assume they will just be better than what we have.

 

[phantom13]

By the same token you can apply it to Richmond north etc and can’t assume they will just be better than what we have.

Absolutely, im not spruiking them.

 

[Darrian Barnett]

It would be great to win the next 4

Reckon it would go a long way in regard to keeping Nas. Bet he's pretty sick of losing

 

[saintbill]

Aleer is 194...

Is 194 actually undersized anymore? Steven May is 190, Taylor is 198 (a whopping 4cm taller), Howard 199 (5cm taller).

Camma is 196cm and my preferred lock down full back. Wilkie plays on the second and Aleer and Tauru (pending him playing forward) is my talls in the backline and none of them is 200cm.

Aleer has the biggest vertical leap in draft combined history, a number not far off the NFL record. So he has other physical attributes.

We have a clear lack of height all over the ground, it couldnt be more obvious, it is why we are constantly giving away free kicks. It's even starting to catch up with Wilkie. Giving away lot's more frees this year.

Barrat may end up a good footballer, but it is just not obvious what need he fills. He may be a key position player, maybe. Maybe it's something else.

There is no uncertainty what Whitlock is. A big key forward who can roll through the ruck. Something we are crying out for. Keep it simple.

We have King, who couldn't be more unreliable, Keeler we won't even offer more than 1 year to, after that the cupboard is bare. We still roll with Owens as a second ruck before Moose was playing

I would also argue even a fit King needs a second tall to be effective. Too many games he gets double teamed and is a non event.

It's not personal with Barrat, I just think it was a really risky and unnecessary call to overlook Whitlock, who was not only the higher rated prospect but also fills an obvious requirement.