List Mgmt. 2025 List Management III 📃

[Aphrodite]

Continued from here:-

List Mgmt. - 2025 List Management II 📃

www.bigfooty.com

 

[carlton_99]

If your not considering off field then you are not making a proper assessment and talent is just a very small part of the equation

I'm not ignoring off-field in reality. But posters are talking about how Elijah is not a need on the list. This is what I disagree with based on his player type

 

[carlton_99]

In the last month of the season, Frankie Evans played approximately as many great games as Elijah has over the course of his career. This is the same Frankie Evans who maintained utmost professionalism when being maligned by the supporter base (myself included), and reportedly acted as a mentor to younger players behind the scenes. In return, Frankie Evans was granted another contract.

Over the course of 2025, Charlie Curnow reportedly wanted out of the club from almost the get go. He had played plenty of great games for the club, and had been an All Australian, and a two times Coleman medallist. His efforts in 2025 were half hearted. The club knew it, and they wanted a Carlton first mentality. The fans wanted him out because they knew he hadn’t put Carlton first. Charlie Curnow went for a raft of first round draft picks.

Comparing Elijah to Frankie Evans and Charlie Curnow is interesting. Elijah has played about as many great games over his entire career as Frankie Evans did in the last month, and nowhere near as many as Charlie Curnow. His commitment to Carlton first has been at about the level of 2025 Charlie Curnow, and nowhere near Frankie Evans.

Elijah Hollands didn’t go to another club because: (1) he has only played as many great games as Frankie Evans; and (2) he’s demonstrated a commitment to his club as inadequate as Charlie Curnow in 2025.

If he had have played as many great games as Charlie Curnow or shown the commitment of Frankie Evans then he may well still find himself on a list somewhere. But without those runs on the board it makes him a pretty hard sell to anyone. You can’t go on potential with Elijah forever. He shouldn’t be on the Carlton list in 2026.

I just can't agree with any sort of comparison between Evans and Hollands. Evans put together a few great games at the back end of the year. Elijah in 2024 was having a significant impact game after game as a high HF. And this was his first full season of AFL football. Has the ability to go on-ball and provide spread from the contest and great footskills. Also hits the scoreboard. A supreme talent.

 

[Soapy V]

I'm not ignoring off-field in reality. But posters are talking about how Elijah is not a need on the list. This is what I disagree with based on his player type

You're basing it on one attribute which is fine. As for others the way I am reading other comments is they are saying he is not a need because of all issues. Off field, performance so far etc. I agree with this

If it was only about ability you would pick him but you don't select players based on one criteria alone

 

[tarczonandjane]

I just can't agree with any sort of comparison between Evans and Hollands. Evans put together a few great games at the back end of the year. Elijah in 2024 was having a significant impact game after game as a high HF. And this was his first full season of AFL football. Has the ability to go on-ball and provide spread from the contest and great footskills. Also hits the scoreboard. A supreme talent.

Game after game? People were calling for him to be dropped after his first couple of games. He had a reasonable run in the middle of the season, and then tailed off towards the end. He wouldn’t have been in our best players more than a handful of times.

I actually think I’m being kind on how I drew the Frankie comparison. Frankie’s last month of the season was actually better than anything Elijah produced in 2024.

And why was 2024 his first full season of football? It’s because he’s never committed to his career professionally. Now I realise there are reasons for that, and some of them are obviously delicate. But the runs just aren’t there on the board.

 

[carlton_99]

You're basing it on one attribute which is fine. As for others the way I am reading other comments is they are saying he is not a need because of all issues. Off field, performance so far etc. I agree with this

If it was only about ability you would pick him but you don't select players based on one criteria alone

Yeh if it's off-field related than that's more than fair enough. I don't disagree. But I thought in a LM thread "needs" is more referring to player type.

 

[carlton_99]

Game after game? People were calling for him to be dropped after his first couple of games. He had a reasonable run in the middle of the season, and then tailed off towards the end. He wouldn’t have been in our best players more than a handful of times.

I actually think I’m being kind on how I drew the Frankie comparison. Frankie’s last month of the season was actually better than anything Elijah produced in 2024.

And why was 2024 his first full season of football? It’s because he’s never committed to his career professionally. Now I realise there are reasons for that, and some of them are obviously delicate. But the runs just aren’t there on the board.

I don't remember anyone calling for him to be dropped and if there were people it surely was a minority. He had a great season and provided a lot of stuff that we lacked (spread, footskills, scoreboard impact outside of the talls)

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Game after game? People were calling for him to be dropped after his first couple of games. He had a reasonable run in the middle of the season, and then tailed off towards the end. He wouldn’t have been in our best players more than a handful of times.

I actually think I’m being kind on how I drew the Frankie comparison. Frankie’s last month of the season was actually better than anything Elijah produced in 2024.

And why was 2024 his first full season of football? It’s because he’s never committed to his career professionally. Now I realise there are reasons for that, and some of them are obviously delicate. But the runs just aren’t there on the board.

Uhh... what? Talk about rewriting history to suit a narrative

 

[bluesDeluxe]

Not sure what the knock on him is, but I'd be inviting noah hibbens-Hargreaves down for a train on spot.

 

[katmanblue]

I’m not hoping for an injury and I wouldn’t be assessing list balance based on one happening

Sure, I meant as a chance for Lij to make the cut rather than a tall. It's the only way I see him getting a gig.

 

[Red Bull]

There’s a thread to discuss this goose … over there !!

 

[tarczonandjane]

Uhh... what? Talk about rewriting history to suit a narrative

Wasn’t in our best for more than about a dozen games. I’m not saying he was in our worst. But he wasn’t much in our best.

 

[tarczonandjane]

I don't remember anyone calling for him to be dropped and if there were people it surely was a minority. He had a great season and provided a lot of stuff that we lacked (spread, footskills, scoreboard impact outside of the talls)

He was a whipping boy after his first two games. FWIW I will defend him on that one. He was at a new club, coming off the drug ban, and I think he quite reasonably had nerves.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Wasn’t in our best for more than about a dozen games. I’m not saying he was in our worst. But he wasn’t much in our best.

So... Half the season? That's a pretty good strike rate for any forward half player.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

I'm not sure this adding 'whey' to 'cream' approach to list management is going to work for us. There's still too much of

True but was it we didn’t rate them or didn’t have the spots? I don’t know

Would Liam Hetherton been worth a rookie spot? Talls take time. Need to remember that names like HOK were SSP picks ups as no one rated them early. Talls are harder to judge

It’s more a question I have as I am very happy with what we did. Just looking at perfect world scenario

I will however be a bit angry if we pick another smaller running player as SSP. We have more than enough now and if we lost 1 or KPPs to injury during season we are in a bit of bother

To cover this list structure we will really need to adjust our game style next year.

If we rated them, and it had to to do with list spots then that sounds pretty poorly reasoned. On that note; didn't Hertherton go undrafted completely... I wonder if he'll get a train-on spot, anywhere?

 

[tarczonandjane]

So... Half the season? That's a pretty good strike rate for any forward half player.

Oops! Fair pick up. Half a dozen games. He had about half a dozen really good games.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I'm not sure this adding 'whey' to 'cream' approach to list management is going to work for us. There's still too much of

If we rated them, and it had to to do with list spots then that sounds pretty poorly reasoned. On that note; didn't Hertherton go undrafted completely... I wonder if he'll get a train-on spot, anywhere?

No, he ended up at the Swans as a Cat B rookie - absolute steal.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

No, he ended up at the Swans as a Cat B rookie - absolute steal.

If he's an absolute steal, then we done blundered.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

If he's an absolute steal, then we done blundered.

No we didn't. Clubs can pre-list Cat A and Cat B rookies following the ND if they are f/s or academy. We could have done the same with Ison if he didn't get a bid in the ND.

Swans got lucky cos he wasn't in their academy, but could nominate him as a NSW zone selection as a Cat B rookie.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

No we didn't. Clubs can pre-list Cat A and Cat B rookies following the ND if they are f/s or academy. We could have done the same with Ison if he didn't get a bid in the ND.

Swans got lucky cos he wasn't in their academy, but could nominate him as a NSW zone selection as a Cat B rookie.

I don't share your logic. We did blunder (or potentially), a club finds a list spot for 'absolute steals' before it even gets to that stage. It's not as if we are absolutely dripping with genuine key-forwards. In fact, it's a list of one.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Fingers crossed Lij gets a train on spot so we can continue this conversation for another 3 months.

 

[Benaly28]

Just cleaning out the car.

 

[gbatman]

Considering how things have opened up around the stoppages and the success Brisbane have had with McInerney, I think having a dominant ruck is something we need to consider. Controlling where the ball goes for us is important as we aren't the best side when it comes to our pace and agility and using that to get to where the ball goes. We also have good clearance players as a strength so it is something I see as a thing which could elevate us.

Pittonet and Reidy are both good solid rucks but I don't really see either as being dominant at AFL level with hitouts. I think if Flynn Riley dominates Pitto and Reidy in the match sim he is a very good chance for that last spot on the list.

I don't think Hollands is going to get a spot. I think there is a chance he is offered a VFL contract. Where things go from there who knows. Signs are looking this way.

I don't know what the club are feeling in regards to key position players. I get a feeling they aren't too worried. Young is durable and Weitering is not too bad for durability. Most sides 2nd and third forwards aren't particularly tall and are more mobile so we probably feel comfortable that if Weitering or Young happen to go down that McGovern, Haynes and possible Dean could play a role here just fine.

White is good quality but with who is coming onto our list and coming available we have a lot of smaller players and have stacked up with forwards.

Good competition for that last spot. Hopefully it's someone who can make a real impact.

 

[gbatman]

If I was to question any point of our List Managemnt this off season is why didn’t we create another list spot (payout Fogarty or Boyd?) and bring in a genuine KPP or trial and extra one over the pre season

We could have got Ludowyke or similar before Ison or Byrne

I am being picky but it would have been nice

This is a good point. There is zero chance we lose Boyd or Fogarty as no other club would be considering either of them so we could have just resigned them if that was a concern.

I suppose we are well sorted for 18-19 year old keys position players and we probably are thinking we only need a temporary mature one which we may still get. We are probably also thinking that defensively Young and Weitering are going to cut it for defence as the second tall in most sides is not that tall.

You raise a good question, I agree with this.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Pittonet and Reidy are both good solid rucks but I don't really see either as being dominant at AFL level with hitouts. I think if Flynn Riley dominates Pitto and Reidy in the match sim he is a very good chance for that last spot on the list.

I don't think Hollands is going to get a spot. I think there is a chance he is offered a VFL contract. Where things go from there who knows. Signs are looking this way.

I don't know what the club are feeling in regards to key position players. I get a feeling they aren't too worried. Young is durable and Weitering is not too bad for durability. Most sides 2nd and third forwards aren't particularly tall and are more mobile so we probably feel comfortable that if Weitering or Young happen to go down that McGovern, Haynes and possible Dean could play a role here just fine.



Good competition for that last spot. Hopefully it's someone who can make a real impact.

It looks like HOK will be groomed as a KPP/ruck back up and Riley must be a real chance of taking the last list spot.
If he beats Pitto and Reidy with the new ruck rules, then he might be a better need than Phillips or Paea.

 

[tarczonandjane]

Just cleaning out the car.

I still haven’t had the heart to throw out my Camp Curnow tshirt. But I can’t bring myself to wear it either!