List Mgmt. 2025 List Management III 📃

[Aphrodite]

Continued from here:-

List Mgmt. - 2025 List Management II 📃

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Garters]

My view is we needed to target more senior key position players while the younger guys develop I don’t want to see Harry Dean playing on Jeremy Cameron or Jesse Hogan in his first year.

I've often wondered. Had you let a kid like Harry O Farrell take his time whether the ACL would have occurred. Does the lack of muscle development coupled with the physical stress of senior footy contribute to these early ACL injuries or would have occurred regardless and just a matter of time owing to structural issues in the knee.
Someone from the field maybe able to impart their esteemed wisdom on the matter. Further to, by letting them develop off Broadway for too long are you robbing Peter to pay Paul allowing them to get used to a slower brand of footy in the 2's.
Where's Andrew Russell when you ne....... never mind.

 

[Garters]

North's 2nd will be around the pick 25 mark.
GS's 2nd - probably 33ish.

If those get us a 1st, it'll be around pick 17.

I reckon if we must move up, we'll package North's 2nd with Swan's 1st.

But who knows what can happen... maybe Swans finish bottom 4...

If North, us and Sydney all finish bottom 4. Wow. Imagine the draft hand we would have (ignoring the new coach bit, and no Walsh and needing to steer clear of here for a season) but hey draft capital for a recruitment party like you've not seen. Get it done Voss, the big Sydney Lumox and Clarko (you smarmy little twerp)

 

[HyphensBack]

"Worst case" scenario in 2026 for draft picks

1. Sydney
2. Carlton
3. Gold Coast
4. North Melbourne
5. Bris

Picks 17, 18, 33, 34, 49

Before compensation picks etc.

If we play in the Grand Final next year so would take it - but only if we win

 

[Beyond Blue]

King would be a great addition - almost like one of the final pieces in the jigsaw to see us eing competitive with the big boys. Not sure if GCS would be in a position to match an offer either.

Adding King as a FA, and Walker through the ND next year would be a great result.

I can’t see us winning going all in on super high salary star player, be it key forward or any other position under Wright, so I really doubt we’ll end up with (or even positioning to make a bid for) Ben king or Butters for that matter.

His play book seems to be to builds deep squads of AFL ready players, erring away from chasing flashy high priced stars and also willing to trade out high profile stars who’s dedication and output don’t justify their salary.

I think it’s far more likely next season we will make a play for an above average, not elite but also affordable free agent.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

King would be a great addition - almost like one of the final pieces in the jigsaw to see us eing competitive with the big boys. Not sure if GCS would be in a position to match an offer either.

Adding King as a FA, and Walker through the ND next year would be a great result.

Realistically we don't know how many pieces of the jigsaw puzzle we have left to fill. We need to wait to see how 2026 pans out before assessing where the list is really at.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I don’t understand what people want, we bought in Haywood Ainsworth Chesser Florent and Reidy, plus Dean Ison and Byrne.
So many people saying we didn’t bring in a tall, we literally got the best tall in the draft in Dean, yes another tall forward would have been nice, but we obviously didn’t rate the options that were available.

Thats 8 players that all address the biggest needs we had, most of them are gonna walk straight into our best 23.
We lost 3 big names players this year, but you can only do so much in one off season.

At least with this reset you can see the plan in place and tangibly see we’re at the half way point of a two year plan thats been extremely well thought out.

JSOS not a big name...

 

[Doro]

I like that we've been targeting some small forwards who can actually clunk it a bit. Makes a difference having multiple threats, rather than 2. All tidy kicks as well, the list in theory is set for a more efficient brand of footy. Hopefully we take a few learnings and momentum from the W team and have a cracking pre season.

 

[COBALT BLUE]

Reasonably.
The injuries to Kemp and HOF hurt that balance a bit, but overall we're probably talking about wanting 1 tall player extra, so I don't think it's a big deal.

HOF
Acl was terrible....he was working so well !!
Can build up that frame a LOT in the meantime
Come back like weiters ...

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Not sure what that has to do with my post??

Ben King is a free agent next year.

I was responding to what you thought would be a 'good get' for next year, or however you put it. I'm being realistic as to what I think we'll need, on top of Cody Walker and making an offer for Ben King that Gold Coast can't match.

I've maintained that on top of what we brought in this year, we'll need to find three more 'elite' players before we are primed to compete for a possible flag. I hate us patting each other on the back for jobs that aren't even done yet. I also maintain that we'd be 'all at sea' if our academy wasn't starting to bear fruit. We have been burned too many times before to think otherwise.

 

[Soapy V]

If I was to question any point of our List Managemnt this off season is why didn’t we create another list spot (payout Fogarty or Boyd?) and bring in a genuine KPP or trial and extra one over the pre season

We could have got Ludowyke or similar before Ison or Byrne

I am being picky but it would have been nice

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If I was to question any point of our List Managemnt this off season is why didn’t we create another list spot (payout Fogarty or Boyd?) and bring in a genuine KPP or trial and extra one over the pre season

We could have got Ludowyke or similar before Ison or Byrne

I am being picky but it would have been nice

No chance I'm paying out Boyd. If he can improve his fitness I still believe he can be an asset to us. Barely 24 months ago we were all loving what Boyd was bringing to the team as a new up and comer.

 

[tarczonandjane]

If I was to question any point of our List Managemnt this off season is why didn’t we create another list spot (payout Fogarty or Boyd?) and bring in a genuine KPP or trial and extra one over the pre season

We could have got Ludowyke or similar before Ison or Byrne

I am being picky but it would have been nice

I don’t disagree with you Soapy. But given how many passes we made on Ludowyke and the other talls, the answer has to be that we didn’t rate any of them.

 

[Soapy V]

I don’t disagree with you Soapy. But given how many passes we made on Ludowyke and the other talls, the answer has to be that we didn’t rate any of them.

True but was it we didn’t rate them or didn’t have the spots? I don’t know

Would Liam Hetherton been worth a rookie spot? Talls take time. Need to remember that names like HOK were SSP picks ups as no one rated them early. Talls are harder to judge

It’s more a question I have as I am very happy with what we did. Just looking at perfect world scenario

I will however be a bit angry if we pick another smaller running player as SSP. We have more than enough now and if we lost 1 or KPPs to injury during season we are in a bit of bother

To cover this list structure we will really need to adjust our game style next year

 

[tarczonandjane]

True but was it we didn’t rate them or didn’t have the spots? I don’t know

Would Liam Hetherton Bebe worth a rookie spot? Talls take time

It’s more a question I have as I am very happy with what we did. Just looking at perfect world scenario

I will however be a bit angry if we pick another smaller running player as SSP. We have more than enough now and if we lost 1 or KPPs to injury during season we are in a bit of bother

To cover this list structure we will really need to adjust our game style next year

I certainly agree on list management being poor if we pick another smaller running player rather than a tall. It’s one of the reasons I’ve been pushing back on the idea of Elijah. In terms of where he plays, we just don’t need that type of player in terms of our list demographics.

 

[Soapy V]

I certainly agree on list management being poor if we pick another smaller running player rather than a tall. It’s one of the reasons I’ve been pushing back on the idea of Elijah. In terms of where he plays, we just don’t need that type of player in terms of our list demographics.

Agree. I would be amazed and disappointed if Elijah was selected for so many reasons

Whether it is Phillips Blight Paea or someone else we definitely need taller depth next year

 

[carlton_99]

In terms of where he plays, we just don’t need that type of player in terms of our list demographics.

If we are talking Elijah purely as a player you put him on the list ahead of at least 20 others currently on it. As purely a player he has a massive chance of being a proper A-grader. Has all the skills needed for the modern AFL and is at the perfect age for our list. You don't ever pass on on-field talent like that. It's just up to the club to determine whether the off-field stuff is too much to carry. I trust them to make that decision.

 

[Soapy V]

If we are talking Elijah purely as a player you put him on the list ahead of at least 20 others currently on it. As purely a player he has a massive chance of being a proper A-grader. Has all the skills needed for the modern AFL and is at the perfect age for our list. You don't ever pass on on-field talent like that. It's just up to the club to determine whether the off-field stuff is too much to carry. I trust them to make that decision.

Ability, YES
Potential, YES

Actual achievements at 23 it’s a big NO. This is on top of a myriad of issues that many can’t forgive and could arise again at anytime

We are trying to change culture and standards

Also, its List balance. Ison, Ainsworth, Moir, Cottrell and more can easily play same role. It’s not a need and the chance that he becomes much better than any of them is thin

IMO it’s a no brainer. He had his chance and blew it. Time to move on

 

[carlton_99]

Ability, YES
Potential, YES

Actual achievements at 23 it’s a big NO. This is on top of a myriad of issues that many can’t forgive and could arise again at anytime

We are trying to change culture and standards

Also, its List balance. Ison, Ainsworth, Moir, Cottrell and more can easily play same role. It’s not a need and the chance that he becomes much better than any of them is thin

IMO it’s a no brainer. He had his chance and blew it. Time to move on

With players like this there is always a need IMO. He can genuinely be a proper gun in the AFL if he gets it together. That is a whole other question ofc.

 

[Soapy V]

With players like this there is always a need IMO. He can genuinely be a proper gun in the AFL if he gets it together. That is a whole other question ofc.

Sounds like you’re arguing your own point. Big IF

Potential is NOT a need.

I had high hopes for him but after 5 seasons and a heap of issues his record of actual performance is very ordinary

 

[carlton_99]

Sounds like you’re arguing your own point. Big IF

Potential is NOT a need.

No I said from my first post I am purely talking on-field. I don't think "needs" batter with a talent like Elijah. That type is always a need.

 

[Soapy V]

No I said from my first post I am purely talking on-field. I don't think "needs" batter with a talent like Elijah. That type is always a need.

If your not considering off field then you are not making a proper assessment and talent is just a very small part of the equation

 

[RPCB]

Elijah Hollands has no one to blame but himself. He will potentially never play AFL football again, which is something he had the talent to forge a 10+ year career in and become a millionaire. He can’t make a career out of the thing that got him delisted and not looked at by 18 AFL clubs.

Six clubs who didn’t draft Patrick Cripps

9

Patrick Cripps

Age

30

Ht

195cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

16.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.8

5star

CL

7.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.9

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

6.3

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

in 2013 have gone on to win an AFL flag (five if you want to exclude the Bulldogs who drafted Bont). So none of those clubs needed Patrick Cripps

9

Patrick Cripps

Age

30

Ht

195cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

16.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.8

5star

CL

7.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.9

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

6.3

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

. Not having Elijah Hollands on our list won’t prevent future success.

 

[tarczonandjane]

If we are talking Elijah purely as a player you put him on the list ahead of at least 20 others currently on it. As purely a player he has a massive chance of being a proper A-grader. Has all the skills needed for the modern AFL and is at the perfect age for our list. You don't ever pass on on-field talent like that. It's just up to the club to determine whether the off-field stuff is too much to carry. I trust them to make that decision.

In the last month of the season, Frankie Evans played approximately as many great games as Elijah has over the course of his career. This is the same Frankie Evans who maintained utmost professionalism when being maligned by the supporter base (myself included), and reportedly acted as a mentor to younger players behind the scenes. In return, Frankie Evans was granted another contract.

Over the course of 2025, Charlie Curnow reportedly wanted out of the club from almost the get go. He had played plenty of great games for the club, and had been an All Australian, and a two times Coleman medallist. His efforts in 2025 were half hearted. The club knew it, and they wanted a Carlton first mentality. The fans wanted him out because they knew he hadn’t put Carlton first. Charlie Curnow went for a raft of first round draft picks.

Comparing Elijah to Frankie Evans and Charlie Curnow is interesting. Elijah has played about as many great games over his entire career as Frankie Evans did in the last month, and nowhere near as many as Charlie Curnow. His commitment to Carlton first has been at about the level of 2025 Charlie Curnow, and nowhere near Frankie Evans.

Elijah Hollands didn’t go to another club because: (1) he has only played as many great games as Frankie Evans; and (2) he’s demonstrated a commitment to his club as inadequate as Charlie Curnow in 2025.

If he had have played as many great games as Charlie Curnow or shown the commitment of Frankie Evans then he may well still find himself on a list somewhere. But without those runs on the board it makes him a pretty hard sell to anyone. You can’t go on potential with Elijah forever. He shouldn’t be on the Carlton list in 2026.

 

[katmanblue]

Agree. I would be amazed and disappointed if Elijah was selected for so many reasons

Whether it is Phillips Blight Paea or someone else we definitely need taller depth next year

You just never know what's going to happen in preseason.

No one would have predicted Jagga doing an ACL this year, but it opened up a spot before the season started to bring in another player.

Just because we only have 1 spot now, doesn't mean it'll stay 1 spot by the cut off for SSP.

 

[Soapy V]

You just never know what's going to happen in preseason.

No one would have predicted Jagga doing an ACL this year, but it opened up a spot before the season started to bring in another player.

Just because we only have 1 spot now, doesn't mean it'll stay 1 spot by the cut off for SSP.

I’m not hoping for an injury and I wouldn’t be assessing list balance based on one happening