List Mgmt. 2025 List Management

[serial_thrilla]

 

[Docker82]

Brisbane played the majority of the year with the likes of Day/Fort/Gallop/Smith playing as a KPF, and they would be arguably worse at that position than Banfield is as a half back.

There's role players playing in every team literally ever.

The idea that Brisbane or Geelong have 23 stars is a fantasy. I'm not convinced their bottom 3-4 players is any better than ours tbh.

I think that players around 9-16 in their teams are way stronger though and that's the real difference. Realistically these guys are the real 'depth' when players 1-8 are injured or not performing as well as they should. Our players 20-30 are at least in the close proximity of being AFL standard and so are theirs.

 

[lint]

Brisbane played the majority of the year with the likes of Day/Fort/Gallop/Smith playing as a KPF, and they would be arguably worse at that position than Banfield is as a half back.

Ridiculous comparison.

After losing Daniher, and while waiting for Allen, Brisbane simply needed a KPF to halve contests and bring the ball to ground if possible. They had the best small/medium forwards in the comp for when the ball hit ground level (Rayner, Bailey, Cameron, Lohman, Ah Chee), which enabled such a game plan from their KPF.

Having a C+ grade square peg in round hole utility player like Banfield, while useful as injury cover, at half back provided a potentially easy kill in our defence for the opposition to hunt (see GC final). I think he does a great job with his god-given ability, but I think by now, we know what Banfield is - he's great injury cover, and preferably, on the half forward flank/wing at that.

Brisbane's defence consisted of Zorko, Gardiner, Lester, Andrews, Fletcher Starcevich and Wilmot. There's no weak link there. When it comes to potential roles for your list bottom 5, some are more damaging to your team plan than others. I'd argue Brisbanes bottom 5 were Marshall on a wing, Gallop up forward (at minimum halve the contest), Fort in the ruck (ruck only needs to again provide a contest in many premiership teams), and McInerney and Reville(wing/half forward) off the bench. Handy roles for your bottom 5, providing a mixture of run and aerial/ruck contests, with limited potential in those roles for too much bleeding from the opposition.

For the record, I could deal with Banfield in the Reville role off the bench, but anytime he was in a defensive one on one in our 50 as a half back I had my heart in my mouth. Having said that, kudos to Banfield for that kick into the corridor against Collingwood. I don't think there's many other jack of all trades players like Bailey in the comp, and it's also up to JLo to put him in situations where he can succeed. I surmise in a premiership side, Bailey's likely role would be be Bruce like, at best.

 

[FreoRicci]

There's role players playing in every team literally ever.

The idea that Brisbane or Geelong have 23 stars is a fantasy. I'm not convinced their bottom 3-4 players is any better than ours tbh.

I think that players around 9-16 in their teams are way stronger though and that's the real difference. Realistically these guys are the real 'depth' when players 1-8 are injured or not performing as well as they should. Our players 20-30 are at least in the close proximity of being AFL standard and so are theirs.

Brisbane and Geelong have a consistent and no fault B22. Their backlines are elite and don’t have key defenders other than Harris Andrews. Fremantle have 2-3.

It’s really the top 5 stars can win games but the bottom 6(add in the middle 6 even) that win premierships.
Players like Fort, Gardiner, Fletcher, Starcevich are the difference.

 

[Docker82]

Brisbane and Geelong have a consistent and no fault B22. Their backlines are elite and don’t have key defenders other than Harris Andrews. Fremantle have 2-3.

It’s really the top 5 stars can win games but the bottom 6(add in the middle 6 even) that win premierships.
Players like Fort, Gardiner, Fletcher, Starcevich are the difference.

If Fort or Gardiner played for us this board wouldn't shut up about how shite they are.

Our bottom six and depth isn't fair off the best teams. Our middle ten or so (if the best 23) is miles off.

Honestly can't remember thinking after too many games, let alone finals, 'insert team's bottom six won it for them today'. It's the top ten players or so on the day that win games - If you've got 15 good players then that just increases your chances as not everyone good has to play well. We have about 8.

 

[go_the_dockers]

If Fort or Gardiner played for us this board wouldn't shut up about how shite they are.

Our bottom six and depth isn't fair off the best teams. Our middle ten or so (if the best 23) is miles off.

Honestly can't remember thinking after too many games, let alone finals, 'insert team's bottom six won it for them today'. It's the top ten players or so on the day that win games - If you've got 15 good players then that just increases your chances as not everyone good has to play well. We have about 8.

I think if we improve our 4th to 6th midfielder then we should be good.

Ideally we need 1 or 2 small forwards who can provide pressure and kick goals.

Think JOM, NOD, Dudley become depth plus Frederick has serious pressure on him to perform.

 

[Docker82]

I think if we improve our 4th to 6th midfielder then we should be good.

Ideally we need 1 or 2 small forwards who can provide pressure and kick goals.

Think JOM, NOD, Dudley become depth plus Frederick has serious pressure on him to perform.

Was very much thinking of our midfield tbh. We need Erasmus and Johnson to take the next step. Sharp or NOD finding form would help but I honestly don't think wing is the most important position.

Small forward is where I've consistently said our depth needs work this off season.

 

[go_the_dockers]

A good summary of where things sit.

 

[blue shark]

Was very much thinking of our midfield tbh. We need Erasmus and Johnson to take the next step. Sharp or NOD finding form would help but I honestly don't think wing is the most important position.

Small forward is where I've consistently said our depth needs work this off season.

I think Erasmus had already shown improvement, when given the chance.
Now if he is part of the plan and we use him to his strengths, the midfield will improve on his sacrifice.

 

[DocT]

Interesting conversation about the realtive importance of your best 6 players vs the next best 6 vs the next best etc.
I think a universal truth is the importance of ball use/delivery. If delivery is good you make the recipient a better player. Give them an extra meter of space, an extra 0.5s of time and they will then use the ball better. Game plan is essential in this respect too. As is identifying and utilising players' strengths.
I guess what I am saying is that a handful of elite players with an elite coach will make everyone else a lot better than they are. The key is the top.

 

[rgauci]

Interesting conversation about the realtive importance of your best 6 players vs the next best 6 vs the next best etc.
I think a universal truth is the importance of ball use/delivery. If delivery is good you make the recipient a better player. Give them an extra meter of space, an extra 0.5s of time and they will then use the ball better. Game plan is essential in this respect too. As is identifying and utilising players' strengths.
I guess what I am saying is that a handful of elite players with an elite coach will make everyone else a lot better than they are. The key is the top.

Our top 6 isn’t as good as some other clubs, the only caveat is most of our players are improving or won’t decline any time soon. Which is why all the pundits / commentators are big on Freo’s future.

Serong, Brayshaw, Jackson, Young, Treacy and Clark probably my top 6. Actually, our top 6 is just as good as any club. Probably better. Need some more outside the centre square though.

 

[Paracleet]

Our top 6 isn’t as good as some other clubs, the only caveat is most of our players are improving or won’t decline any time soon. Which is why all the pundits / commentators are big on Freo’s future.

Serong, Brayshaw, Jackson, Young, Treacy and Clark probably my top 6. Actually, our top 6 is just as good as any club. Probably better. Need some more outside the centre square though.

Thinking evolved quickly there..

 

[Purple Suit]

Thinking evolved quickly there..

It’s the off season, by Feb it will be hard to see how we lose a game in 2026.

 

[Paracleet]

Interesting conversation about the realtive importance of your best 6 players vs the next best 6 vs the next best etc.
I think a universal truth is the importance of ball use/delivery. If delivery is good you make the recipient a better player. Give them an extra meter of space, an extra 0.5s of time and they will then use the ball better. Game plan is essential in this respect too. As is identifying and utilising players' strengths.
I guess what I am saying is that a handful of elite players with an elite coach will make everyone else a lot better than they are. The key is the top.

I've come to the conclusion this bottom 6 thing is not that important*. I think the key is players 7 to 17

*All other things being equal. E.g. You have another 6 C graders available to cover injury (I.E. Depth), you have wingers and flankers that can go on ball when the top mids are injured without too much loss of competitiveness, coaching is competent etc. etc.

 

[Taylor]

I would expect that should "Own Forced Error/Own Error" : "Opp Forced Error/Opp Errors" stats being available it would show just like every elite sport (and as you get more and more elite it becomes arguably the only stat) that winning really only comes down to making less mistakes than you opposition.

I would argue that we can't call any side elite that doesn't punish those mistakes. We have a problem with punishing mistakes.

I don't know if "scores from mistakes" as opposed to "scores from turnovers" is quite what I'm getting at because you can make mistakes without turning the ball over, you can make mistakes literally scoring when you miss.

AFL sides make so many mistakes every game, I'd like to see that stat available and I suspect it's the most redundant thing ever to expect less mistakes equals more wins - but maybe winning is more highly correlated to defending scores from your mistakes - explaining the Lyon style of footy.

 

[Paracleet]

I would expect that should "Own Forced Error/Own Error" : "Opp Forced Error/Opp Errors" stats being available it would show just like every elite sport (and as you get more and more elite it becomes arguably the only stat) that winning really only comes down to making less mistakes than you opposition.

I would argue that we can't call any side elite that doesn't punish those mistakes. We have a problem with punishing mistakes.

I don't know if "scores from mistakes" as opposed to "scores from turnovers" is quite what I'm getting at because you can make mistakes without turning the ball over, you can make mistakes literally scoring when you miss.

AFL sides make so many mistakes every game, I'd like to see that stat available and I suspect it's the most redundant thing ever to expect less mistakes equals more wins - but maybe winning is more highly correlated to defending scores from your mistakes - explaining the Lyon style of footy.

It an ancient conundrum. In the short to medium term aggression is demostrably more effective, but its only a matter of time until a combination of too much of your own bathwater and luck will see you defeated. The only long term sustainable stragegy is one based on counter attack / manurveing the enemy to where you are concentrated.*

*(Hence citing Lyon here, his gameplan was to force as much of the game as possible to be in front of his best players = Concentration of force.

 

[Taylor]

It an ancient conundrum. In the short to medium term aggression is demostrably more effective, but its only a matter of time until a combination of too much of your own bathwater and luck will see you defeated. The only long term sustainable stragegy is one based on counter attack / manurveing the enemy to where you are concentrated.*

*(Hence citing Lyon here, his gameplan was to force as much of the game as possible to be in front of his best players = Concentration of force.

That goes some way to explaining why one opposition player, who barely has any reputation as a game breaker, tore it up against us - making a difference as someone way down the list wasn't able to blanket their opponent for a good honest nil all.

 

[Purple Suit]

That goes some way to explaining why one opposition player, who barely has any reputation as a game breaker, tore it up against us - making a difference as someone way down the list wasn't able to blanket their opponent for a good honest nil all.

The other big factors are winners write the history & confirmation bias when assessing one’s team.

 

[FreoRicci]

That goes some way to explaining why one opposition player, who barely has any reputation as a game breaker, tore it up against us - making a difference as someone way down the list wasn't able to blanket their opponent for a good honest nil all.

Really dislike how the midfield allow the 3rd-4th midfielder to dominate.
Jack Crisp for example always seem to exploit the group. Nic Newman. Those types.

That’s why Johnson, Erasmus, NOD are so important this pre season

 

[eastfreo75]

Really dislike how the midfield allow the 3rd-4th midfielder to dominate.
Jack Crisp for example always seem to exploit the group. Nic Newman. Those types.

That’s why Johnson, Erasmus, NOD are so important this pre season

All three need to step into B graders.

In fact, we have all of our best 23 to be B grade at minimum.

 

[FreoRicci]

All three need to step into B graders.

In fact, we have all of our best 23 to be B grade at minimum.

Johnson and Erasmus need to be full time rotating mids. Big pre season, get them in early.
Do not want to see JOM remotely close to this team.

 

[theGav56]

Was very much thinking of our midfield tbh. We need Erasmus and Johnson to take the next step. Sharp or NOD finding form would help but I honestly don't think wing is the most important position.

Small forward is where I've consistently said our depth needs work this off season.

I think we have just as much upside from upgrading the wings, and we really already have Bolton, Switkowski, Frederick and Reid in the forward mix alongside 4 talls (including rucks).

Being so poor there makes our game plan so much more predictable and makes it more difficult to improve our delivery inside 50. Both Sharp and O'Driscoll are weak links at this stage.

In general we need to:

• improve delivery inside 50
• produce more goals from the midfield

Weaponising the wings will achieve this.

 

[Spirit Level]

Jackson training as a mid this preseason will also be a leap forward

 

[PrancingPony]

Been gone for a month or so, what have I missed? Any exciting training or draft news?

 

[pK75]

Been gone for a month or so, what have I missed? Any exciting training or draft news?

Nope, hope you had a nice break, been very boring around here.

 

[PrancingPony]

Nope, hope you had a nice break, been very boring around here.

Damn that sucks to hear, hopefully we get a fringe player training out of their skins soon so we can overreact and call them our next flag bearer.