2030: You'd think an international club comp would be on the radar

[cos789]

I imagine each region will do what they think is appropriate. In NZ they renamed and rebranded OzKick, In Ireland, they just went with Ozkick.

Auskick is a big vehicle for Australian football around the world now.
In the RSA it's called Footywild. NZ it's Kiwikick and in Europe it's called Eurokick.

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[Aucklander]

Look at the two Rugbys for example. Rugby League World cup is a joke with Australia winning 9 out of the 13 titles and the Ruby Union title has been dominated by three countries for nearly 30 years. Any international Australian Rules competition between Nations would be a farce.

The World Cup is a celebration of the sport that people around the world play. A time when the best players get together every fours year in a festival celebrating what the games mean to those players. Belittling them only highlights your own insecurities.

So what if Australia wins every single one of the RL ones or 3 countries dominate the RU one, so what also if Australia won every single International Cup? It's about competing against the best and comparing yourself to them while getting better yourself in an environment which has proven players actually develop in.

 

[cos789]

The World Cup is a celebration of the sport that people around the world play. A time when the best players get together every fours year in a festival celebrating what the games mean to those players. Belittling them only highlights your own insecurities.

So what if Australia wins every single one of the RL ones or 3 countries dominate the RU one, so what also if Australia won every single International Cup? It's about competing against the best and comparing yourself to them while getting better yourself in an environment which has proven players actually develop in.

It's about having the right structure in place.
IMO the International Cup has the right structure in place atm.

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[Shoei]

The World Cup is a celebration of the sport that people around the world play. A time when the best players get together every fours year in a festival celebrating what the games mean to those players. Belittling them only highlights your own insecurities.

So what if Australia wins every single one of the RL ones or 3 countries dominate the RU one, so what also if Australia won every single International Cup? It's about competing against the best and comparing yourself to them while getting better yourself in an environment which has proven players actually develop in.

My own insecurities? Care to point out what they?

You really believe that game will be an international hit with other countries watching their amateurs play a game they don't understand routinely butchered by professionals? I have a bridge i'd like to sell you....

There are AFL teams struggling to attract fans and financial support in a country were it is the most profitable and supported league. A large portion of the country that invented the game does not follow the game. Yet it is to this backdrop that Australian Football is somehow going to take the world by storm?

There will never be a meaningful international Australian rules competition in which the best players from Australia compete for the exact same reason there is no meaningful American Football World Cup. The best will never play.

Complete pie-in-the-sky stuff.

 

[Bouvet_Island]

That SOO forray was basically in response to the successful overseas games of the AFL culminating with 32,789 in Vancouver.

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Don't forget to mention that less than two weeks later after this match there was a second AFL (VFL) demonstration match in Vancouver at the same venue. This match drew a crowd of 7,980.

It would appear that crowd turned up for a look more out of curiosity, and having seen the match, over 24,000 of them voted with their feet and said "Thanks, but no thanks".

 

[cos789]

Don't forget to mention that less than two weeks later after this match there was a second AFL (VFL) demonstration match in Vancouver at the same venue. This match drew a crowd of 7,980.

Which was fantastic result because the second game was literally a last minute change.

It would appear that crowd turned up .

For an aggregate of 40.769.
fantastic stuff.

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[cos789]

There will never be a meaningful international Australian rules competition in which the best players from Australia compete

Well it already happens at junior levels.
You could already put together an overseas SOO side.

Never say never!!!

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[Aucklander]

My own insecurities? Care to point out what they?

Bagging two high profile, long standing, well supported World Cups simply because you think your own sport would be a failure highlights insecurities about your own sport.

You really believe that game will be an international hit with other countries watching their amateurs play a game they don't understand routinely butchered by professionals? I have a bridge i'd like to sell you....

I looked through my post again and can't find where I said that, although I'm a great believer in players living in Australia carrying overseas passports being eligible for their home country.

There are AFL teams struggling to attract fans and financial support in a country were it is the most profitable and supported league. A large portion of the country that invented the game does not follow the game. Yet it is to this backdrop that Australian Football is somehow going to take the world by storm?

Again, I never said that.

Any future Aussie Rules WC should be looked upon solely as a celebration of the game and for those who play it. It's not about taking the world by storm.

There will never be a meaningful international Australian rules competition in which the best players from Australia compete for the exact same reason there is no meaningful American Football World Cup. The best will never play.

Complete pie-in-the-sky stuff.

I don't believe that.

 

[Shoei]

Well it already happens at junior levels.
You could already put together an overseas SOO side.

Never say never!!!

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So lets see this International SOO side and I hope by international you mean players born outside of Australia.

Karmichael Hunt, Mike Pike, Harry O'Brien(at a complete stretch), Pearce Hanley, Niall McKeever, Alipate Carlile, Aaron Edwards, Brent Renouf and David Rodan are the players I can think of born outside of Australia...not even enough to field a side (though ive probably missed some Irish lads somewhere)

Look, I love Australian football as much as the next person. The game is still a mess at home and needs to be fixed before we start peddling our wares overseas. Constant rule changes, Poor clubs with bad facilities, crappy fixtures, empty stadiums etc....and now we are talking of a New Zealand team!?

A healthy, vibrant AFL with a healthy, vibrant WAFL, VFL, SANFL etc needs to be first and foremost. Not this bullshit international push.

 

[jatz14]

You seem to be assuming that it is either or. That if they attempt to develope the game overseas, it must mean they take the eye of the ball here. History suggests that is and never will be the case. At best overseas development will be a very poorly funded afterthought, it is that this is a marked step up from the unfunded, no thought that preceeded it. It will never have any impact one way or the other on the resources devoted to developement here.

People seem to be assuming that those of that support the idea are expecting a soccer style world cup, or games played overseas in front of huge crowds. Then they point out that this is pie in the sky stuff, and dismiss the whole concept. Its easy to knock over straw men.

Healthy, niche local amateur comps organised in a structured way (as Canada already has). Enough local attention to recruit replacements and gradual slow expansion (as the US has). Local people interested enough in the game to take on leadership roles (the US, Canada, NZ). Maybe some recognition by a school system here or there (NZ). Developement of a junior system so they learn the skills early enough to become 'natural' (NZ, PNG). The formation of recognised national squads that play regularly against appropriate competition (US, Canada, Europe). Overseas players feeding in to lower level Australian comps (US, Canada, NZ, PNG), talent spotting systems to identify young players with elite potential (NZ, PNG), and finally, generational transmission, players coming along who learnt the game from their parents, who watched games from the sidelines, kicked the ball with mates, went to ozkick, follow an AFL team, have favourite players etc (Canada, US).

If the people developing Australian football in the mid 1800s had ever listened to people saying, `getting 10s of thousands of people to games, professional teams all over the country, watched by millions, earning billions! rediculous pie in the sky stuff, give it up, will never happen`.

 

[PACatter]

Curious how this went from seeing an international club competition to having the governing body look at putting teams outside of Australia.

You really believe that game will be an international hit with other countries watching their amateurs play a game they don't understand routinely butchered by professionals? I have a bridge i'd like to sell you....

See: Basketball, baseball, soccer

Aussie Rules will never take the world by storm, but it would do well to at least demonstrate that it is worth a spot on the international stage (which it is).

A semi-pro cup would do great for the sport. Push hard at the collegiate level - there are an insane amount of niche sports getting push from college club sports. The game is one that I think could attract a lot of international eyes, if given enough of a chance, to the point that the AFL could start pulling people (and their money) to the country. Run a semi-pro cup, make it loud. People will pay attention. Hell, if curling can have an international competition, why not?

 

[cos789]

Look, I love Australian football as much as the next person.

Seems you only like the the AFL.
You keep mentioning everything from an AFL perspective.
Try and think outside of the AFL oval for a change.
Presently countries outside of Australia compete competively against each other.
Presently junior sides from outside of Australia compete competively with Australia.
The next step would be competitive games amateur sides.
Then competitive games against the second tier leagues.
That would be a huge boost to the second tier leagues.

ive probably missed some Irish lads somewhere.

Yes you have plus others.

 

[cos789]

Curious how this went from seeing an international club competition to having the governing body look at putting teams outside of Australia.

Because an AFL side internationally and an international competition outside of Australia both fit fit the definition. AS numerous overseas international competitions already exist we really have to change the wording to include "high profile".

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Because an AFL side internationally and an international competition outside of Australia both fit fit the definition. AS numerous overseas international competitions already exist we really have to change the wording to include "high profile".

I think that is a good point. I believe there have already been international club tournaments. The Vietnam Swans are both a club and the Vietnamese national side (pretty much all Aussie ex-pats I understand at this stage, so unlikely to be at an International Cup for a while yet) who play clubs in SE Asia.
According to ever-reliable Wikipedia the Danish league includes two clubs from Sweden (I thought it was one). USA and Canadian clubs have met before in North American championships. These are international club competitions, meeting the thread title criteria well before 2030.

I took the thread title to mean Aus club v non-Aus club, and immediately thought "AFL". A PNG team in the NEAFL might be a possibility, or maybe playing in the Cairns league to begin with. That would require significant AFL funding, and security in Port Moresby is an issue - along with recruitment of a few experienced Australian players to help them be competitive early.

 

[cos789]

I think that is a good point. I believe there have already been international club tournaments.

There are many examples of clubs playing internationally but more importantly there are a number of international competitions such as Euro Cup and 49th Parrallel Cup.

I took the thread title to mean Aus club v non-Aus club, and immediately thought "AFL". A PNG team in the NEAFL might be a possibility, or maybe playing in the Cairns league to begin with. That would require significant AFL funding, and security in Port Moresby is an issue - along with recruitment of a few experienced Australian players to help them be competitive early.

There is already a pathway from PNG to Qld to the AFL.
It's not such a big step to include the PNG in the QAFL then the NEAFL as you suggest.

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[cos789]

Swedish teams played in the Danish league before the formation of a Swedish league.
A French team played in the German league before the formation of a French league.
Welsh teams played in the Btritish league before the formation of a Welsh league.
An Austrian team plays in the Croatian league.
A Belgium team plays in the Nederlands league.
A German team will play in the Czech league.
A Swiss team plays in the Italian league.
Canadian teams play in the USAFL.

 

[Bouvet_Island]

Which was fantastic result because the second game was literally a last minute change.

"Literally a last minute change"?
What an amazing bit of luck that there just happened to be another VFL team in Vancouver at time to cover for this last minute change!

For an aggregate of 40.769.
fantastic stuff.
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Obviously the VFL/AFL didn't think so, since that was 25 years ago and they haven't deemed it worthwhile to go back to Vancouver.

 

[cos789]

Obviously the VFL/AFL didn't think so, since that was 25 years ago and they haven't deemed it worthwhile to go back to Vancouver.

You are very confused about the idea of holding those matches.
Australian Football continued to be displayed in various cities around the word for some time after the Vancouver match. In 1988 Toronto they had a crowd of 18.5 k and in 1989 they had 24.6k at the same venue.
Obviously if they they'd gone back to Vancouver they would've had the same or better crowds as previously attended. I believe Toronto was preferable to Vancouver as there were greater profits from the Toronto games. Toronto has gone on to have arguably the best league outside of Australia with 10 teams in division one, a second division, women's league and a junior league. Vancouver is none to shabby either with a strong league and junior competition and being stronger than the Seattle and Portland clubs across the border which also hosted exhibition matches

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[Barkly St End]

Interesting that an ANZAC Day game, to be played in Turkey, is still on the agenda:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/turks-get-behind-flyin-anzac-clash-20130105-2ca9a.html

and it's NOT being pushed by the AFL.

 

[Barkly St End]

Interesting discussion.

You can be assured that whenever this sort of topic is raised, those who hate the indigenous game will be out trolling.

As Jatz points out, invariably they will raise straw man arguments, making claims that no else is actually making.

Whatever anyone thinks or believes, in the space of 15 years, with almost zero input from the AFL, plenty of leagues and clubs have been formed in Europe and North America, and more recently in South Africa and the Pacific.

The AFL has only got interested the last few years, but even then, the amount of money they invest internationally is minute.

The standard is pretty low at the moment, but in many places, the game didn't exist a decade ago.

The work done in our own region in the last few years has reaped immediate rewards.

Gideon Smith has just become the first player to make an AFL list who learned the game entirely outside of Australia (PNG). This sort of thing can only increase. Hawthorn already has a few international scholarship holders from NZ who look the goods.

If you go to the international footy tab, Jatz put up a video from the recent Oceania U18s championships, and the standard of play is pretty good - can only get better with more investment.

What's more, island nations new to the game, like Vanuatu and Solomon Islands are already beating Tonga who had a few years head start - they'll all get better with more competitions like this.

At the end of the day - is there any harm in teaching the rest of the world how to kick a footy correctly?

 

[Munro_Mick]

PNG is the nation best placed presently to compete on a sustainable basis with Australian sides (not professional AFL sides). We've seen NZ humbled by Maffra (a mid sized town in East Gippsland that has had great success in the old LVFL/GFL v Sale/Traralgon etc). NZ didn't and don't have the pedigree of PNG.

PNG has a reasonable history of Aust Footy and does have some generational families involved. They have a history of expats or children of who have played AFL (Mal Michael, James Gwilt amongst others). They have real junior participation and development.

PNG now has a very solid pathway. A fellow like Gideon Simon now international rookie listed at Richmond has come through their junior programs, including the U16 Binatangs, played against Sth Pacific nations in the Oceania Cup, made the rep squad to play for South Pacific U16s in the Aust National U16 Championships and gone through the AFL PNG De La Salle Academy in Port Moresby. His efforts this year at the AFL pre draft combine along with a number of other internationals (Kurt Heatherly in particular - NZ) shows that he's got every chance and is deserved of the opportunity he now has.

This pathway is far better to develop the talented 15 yr olds in PNG than what it was even 5 years ago. There was a couple of waves of talent that mostly got farmed into the QLD system - and a couple as international scholarship players came down to Victoria to play. A lot of these names are very well known to international footy followers and they are mostly pretty good players who have done okay or even quite well at that QAFL/NEAFL 2nd tier level. (Peter Labi, David Meli, John James, Amua Pirika, Emmaus Wartovo, Stanis Susuve, Brendon Beno, Donald Barry and Theo Gavuri).

A pretty decent PNG team could - with funding - make a fair fist of the QAFL. It'd be great to see PNG in there playing against other QAFL sides and perhaps progress into the NEAFL - it'd be great to see them in there, alongside NT Thunder adding that bit of extra variety and excitement to the Northern Conference.

Outside of PNG - the most successful nation at the IC has been Ireland - however, we know that a fair bit of that is not so much due to fabulous grass roots juniors etc in Ireland but more the capacity for Gaelic players to 'convert'. The other successful IC nation has been NZ - and there again the recent developments are creating a far more exciting development model than previously existed.

The key to NZ and PNG (and all the Oceania/South Pacific nations for that matter) is that instead of say a 20 yr old looking okay in IC company - here we have the chance for a 14/15 yr old to show real potential/aptitude at an age where they can be seriously developed. And not just physically.

 

[cos789]

Whatever anyone thinks or believes, in the space of 15 years, with almost zero input from the AFL, plenty of leagues and clubs have been formed in Europe and North America, and more recently in South Africa and the Pacific.

Being pedantic, probably it's 20 yeras.

The AFL has only got interested the last few years, but even then, the amount of money they invest internationally is minute.

It's important to differentiate between the Northern hemishere and the Southern hemishere where investment in some countries has been not insignificant.

The standard is pretty low at the moment, but in many places, the game didn't exist a decade ago.

True for the majority of countries, but where there are defined pathways to the the AFL as well as the occasional non pathway player we are seeing players being listed by the AFL or playing in second tier competitions.

Teenage representive teams are also getting more competitive.

Most people are totally consumed by comaprisons to the AFL standard where as the relative balance in competition between as seen by the ICs is of long term importance.

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[Howard Littlejohn]

There is already a pathway from PNG to Qld to the AFL.
It's not such a big step to include the PNG in the QAFL then the NEAFL as you suggest.
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I thought that pathway stopped at under-18 level, with PNG taking part in the Queensland state aged comps. The main reason I suggested AFL Cairns as a steping stone to the NEAFL was due to flight times. There are direct Cairns-Port Moresby flights. AFL Cairns used to be regarded as pretty much equal to the state comp in SE Qld, and with the best of those clubs now in the NEAFL the standard between the Cairns and SEQ comps is probably not that big.
Either way, a PNG could hope to pick some Australian players for experience in the team and look at an NEAFL entry a few years down the track.

 

[cos789]

I thought that pathway stopped at under-18 level, with PNG taking part in the Queensland state aged comps. The main reason I suggested AFL Cairns as a steping stone to the NEAFL was due to flight times. There are direct Cairns-Port Moresby flights. AFL Cairns used to be regarded as pretty much equal to the state comp in SE Qld, and with the best of those clubs now in the NEAFL the standard between the Cairns and SEQ comps is probably not that big.
Either way, a PNG could hope to pick some Australian players for experience in the team and look at an NEAFL entry a few years down the track.

Sounds like a good idea.

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[steveys]

Dont think its happening any time soon. Not likely in the states and the Kiwis are a rare chance in their own right due to obsession w rugby & soccer