When will the AFL see a return on their investment on GWS and Gold Coast?

[Consolaçao]

A lot of those Pies fans ARE locals. We know the amount of travelling Pies at the game was heavily restricted by the Melbourne Airport issue yesterday morning/afternoon but 22.4k of the 25k tickets sold still showed up. I think you'd even find a percentage of the Pies fans that went to the game yesterday actually support the Suns as their secondary team and would show up to Suns games in their red and gold in other home games. It's fairly common up here for a local AFL fan to support their original Victorian team as their number 1 club and loosely adopt the Suns as their secondary team. We know Collingwood have the biggest supporter base in the land and there's a ton of Victorian ex pats living in SEQ so it's not really surprising. They support the Pies but also want the Suns to do well in weeks that they aren't playing Collingwood.

The challenge for the Suns is finding a way to cultivate the fairly large amount of footy supporters based on the GC. Potential is there but the team just hasn't been able to win enough games to keep the local footy community engaged. The crowd last night was a little taste of what's possible on the Gold Coast.

I didn’t see the game.. were you there? what proportion of the crowd was actually ‘pies fans?

I’m skeptical of these claims that most there were Collingwood, but please tell me if I’m wrong. I mean, 14,000 turned up last week to a pretty unappealing fixture, and Hawks fans there were surely in the minority. The idea that for a far more consequential game the following week, a majority of the 22,000 that were there this week weren’t Suns fans strikes me aa unlikely.

I can understand that (say) 6,000 Collingwood fans would have sounded like a majority a) because they’re Collingwood fans, and b) because they dominated.

Keen to hear though from those that were there.

 

[GC2015]

I didn’t see the game.. were you there? what proportion of the crowd was actually ‘pies fans?

I’m skeptical of these claims that most there were Collingwood, but please tell me if I’m wrong. I mean, 14,000 turned up last week to a pretty unappealing fixture, and Hawks fans there were surely in the minority. The idea that for a far more consequential game the following week, a majority of the 22,000 that were there this week weren’t Suns fans strikes me aa unlikely.

I can understand that (say) 6,000 Collingwood fans would have sounded like a majority a) because they’re Collingwood fans, and b) because they dominated.

Keen to hear though from those that were there.

It's hard to say considering black and/or white are fairly common colours that people wear in a general sense. The media were suggesting as many as 12k Collingwood fans could show up to the game so if that was true then it would have been 12k Magpies vs 10.4k Suns/neutrals. I think that's unlikely considering flights from Melbourne to Gold Coast were cancelled yesterday morning so it was probably closer to the other way around with 8-10k being Collingwood fans and the other 12-14k being Suns/neutral fans. Like you said, 8-10k Collingwood fans can sound like a majority but in all likelihood they were probably outnumbered in terms of the make up of the total attendance. We do have 20k members after all so it's not a stretch to say 10-12k of them were probably in attendance yesterday.

Keep in mind that the eastern stand (the one you see on TV) is where the majority of Collingwood's fans were sitting because that's how they do the ticketing at the stadium. So just using the eye test on the Fox Footy broadcast could paint a very unfair picture of what was actually happening. That and the fact that people often wear black and/or white in a general sense. We'll see how many show up to our next home game against the less popular St Kilda in a fortnight from now and if it's under 10k then perhaps there's some merit to the suggestion, but I doubt it.

 

[Rob]

I didn’t see the game.. were you there? what proportion of the crowd was actually ‘pies fans?

I’m skeptical of these claims that most there were Collingwood, but please tell me if I’m wrong. I mean, 14,000 turned up last week to a pretty unappealing fixture, and Hawks fans there were surely in the minority. The idea that for a far more consequential game the following week, a majority of the 22,000 that were there this week weren’t Suns fans strikes me aa unlikely.

I can understand that (say) 6,000 Collingwood fans would have sounded like a majority a) because they’re Collingwood fans, and b) because they dominated.

Keen to hear though from those that were there.

People always overestimate visiting fans, especially that team's own supporters. In most cases you can take the estimate and halve it.
A Collingwood fan tried to argue there were over 10k Pies fans against West Coast, despite there only being 6k total tickets available to non- eagles members. And the 20k or so on their waiting list get first dibs on those. It's obviously nonsense.

 

[speedpeck23]

It's about growing all AFL clubs. Having AFL Clubs with big support bases playing twice a year in Sydney and Brisbane is massive for the games profile and the clubs themselves. It will just get bigger and better for GWS and GC.... too cold in Melbourne in winter not to go north.....the general population drift over time amongst AFL fans is holiday or move to warmer climates.

 

[Walshawk]

Here you go. If this is accurate then that would mean the majority of the 25k tickets sold AREN'T Collingwood fans. A decent amount of the alleged 12k Collingwood fans would live on the Gold Coast/Brisbane and potentially also regularly attend Suns home games as their secondary team when Collingwood aren't playing. So the sell out is really more of a reflection of the appetite for footy in SEQ when the two teams are playing well than anything else. The same fixture barely pulled 16k last year so it really is a case of winning being the main factor pulling in the fans, which in this case equates to an extra 9k fans when compared to last year.

Yep. Hawks pull a decent crowd @ GC partly because we have heaps for fans living there. Most would be GC members rather than Hawks members. They might go to half the games, in their GC gear, then support the Hawks for that game. The parents will lipped always prefer the Hawks but the kids and their kids will be Suns fans.

 

[GC2015]

Yep. Hawks pull a decent crowd @ GC partly because we have heaps for fans living there. Most would be GC members rather than Hawks members. They might go to half the games, in their GC gear, then support the Hawks for that game. The parents will lipped always prefer the Hawks but the kids and their kids will be Suns fans.

Exactly. This would be the case with most Victorian families that have relocated to the Gold Coast and have an existing affiliation with another club. I can confirm there are a lot of Victorians living here!

 

[GC2015]

This is the return on investment for the AFL.

The outrageously talented team changing the face of the AFL draft

November’s national draft will be shaped by a team that didn’t even exist until 2016. It’s loaded with special talents, one of whom could usurp Harley Reid as the No.1 pick.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Consolaçao]

This is the return on investment for the AFL.

The outrageously talented team changing the face of the AFL draft

November’s national draft will be shaped by a team that didn’t even exist until 2016. It’s loaded with special talents, one of whom could usurp Harley Reid as the No.1 pick.

www.theage.com.au

Yeah, but Gold Coast haven’t made the finals yet and GWS do ticket giveaways.

Wind them up.

 

[____]

People need to chill about Gold Coast and GWS. They're not even half a generation into a generational project.

Their increase to the broadcast rights has already paid for their foundation. People moan that they've each cost the AFL nearly $250m over a decade, but that's disingenuous. It's more than the rest, but every club has "cost" $100m-plus in that time, and the smaller clubs have cost ~$200m. That's how our league works.

Both clubs need nudges in the right direction, but they'll absolutely pay off in the long-term if things are done right (both teams playing 11 home games at their home stadiums for starters).

The Gold Coast will reach 1m people within a decade, fuelled by southern migration. With sustained wins and improved public transport, crowds will improve. They could easily make the Gold Coast a 50/50 AFL/NRL town.

GWS are struggling with crowds, but they've got a loyal core, and more Sydney-based members than most Sydney NRL clubs. They'll have both a new metro and light rail station directly outside their stadium by 2030, which will boost accessibility. A greater focus on Western Sydney is needed though. GWS is a bigger slog, but a bigger reward.

Both will be worth it, just have to stop pussy-footing around and go all-in on the markets.

I lived on the GC between 2015-17. Would say it's already 50/50 AFL and NRL considering how many Victorians, South Australians and Tasmanians live there. Only part of Queensland outside Lions game days in the Woolloongabba area where AFL might get big screen treatment over NRL at the pub.

Ironically, of all the hard core Sydney born Swans fans I have met, perhaps half of them are asian.

I know a few as well, some of which actually are born and bred in Western Sydney but didn't change teams when the Giants came in.

IMO GWS best chance of gaining fans are getting first gen Australians on board.

 

[GC2015]

Yeah, but Gold Coast haven’t made the finals yet and GWS do ticket giveaways.

Wind them up.

You're the kind of footy fan that would have advocated for Port Adelaide being excluded from the AFL when they had tarps covering the empty seats at their home games 10 years ago. Luckily, people like you aren't in charge.

 

[Canberra Pear]

You're the kind of footy fan that would have advocated for Port Adelaide being excluded from the AFL when they had tarps covering the empty seats at their home games 10 years ago. Luckily, people like you aren't in charge.

Pretty sure they were joking. Just needed the /s

 

[GC2015]

Pretty sure they were joking. Just needed the /s

Maybe so but there are people out there who genuinely believe it.

 

[Cmarsh]

Yeah, but Gold Coast haven’t made the finals yet and GWS do ticket giveaways.

Wind them up.

The AFL are doing a kids go free promotion for every club in the comp at the moment.

 

[Bigncheesy]

GC was, if not a failed idea, premature.League has never made money on GC and regularly folds and starts again. Leigh matthews never was for it and I don’t understand the “growth” at all costs ppl want with AFL. It not a public company or a private business in the traditional sense. The quality of footy should be the goal.it’s for members and fans. for those saying they produced x, y, z players, they put back some other clubs back a decade on their development which is still being felt. Paying extraordinary amounts for two duds from NRL was disrespectful to every other player striving to make it. they should have done gws only. One at a time but afl has proven fans come way down the list as a priority. Gils ego probably wanted a legacy.

 

[GC2015]

GC was, if not a failed idea, premature.League has never made money on GC and regularly folds and starts again. Leigh matthews never was for it and I don’t understand the “growth” at all costs ppl want with AFL. It not a public company or a private business in the traditional sense. The quality of footy should be the goal.it’s for members and fans. for those saying they produced x, y, z players, they put back some other clubs back a decade on their development which is still being felt. Paying extraordinary amounts for two duds from NRL was disrespectful to every other player striving to make it. they should have done gws only. One at a time but afl has proven fans come way down the list as a priority. Gils ego probably wanted a legacy.

I think once the AFL saw the way the NRL's newest expansions side (GC Titans) captured the imagination of the Gold Coast public in their inaugural 2007/08 seasons, they figured any presence was better than none and expedited the process of two new league licenses in 2008/09. They under resourced us and prioritised GWS by giving them more concessions (and the natural advantage of going second), building league standard facilities for them five years before us, installed a highly respected/successful coach for them while we got a rookie coach, COLA for them and not us etc. Not sure if you're familiar with the under resourcing issues that plagued the Brisbane Bears in their early days but that's essentially what the AFL did to us in a modern sense.

Only recently has the AFL addressed a lot of these under resourcing issues by getting us out of the tin sheds and into league standard training/admin facilities a few years ago, giving us some draft concessions to make up for the ones we didn't get at the start that GWS did get, dedicating the proper amount of funding towards our academy program so we can genuinely produce AFL standard graduates, and it would appear that the AFL are about to help us secure the highly respected/successful coach that we've never had. Since we committed to a full rebuild back in 2018 and it's taken several years to develop our young players, we're only just now starting to see what a Gold Coast AFL team is capable of when it's properly resourced.

I guarantee you the next decade will be a lot better for the Suns than our first decade.

 

[Colonial]

I think once the AFL saw the way the NRL's newest expansions side (GC Titans) captured the imagination of the Gold Coast public in their inaugural 2007/08 seasons, they figured any presence was better than none and expedited the process of two new league licenses in 2008/09. They under resourced us and prioritised GWS by giving them more concessions (and the natural advantage of going second), building league standard facilities for them five years before us, installed a highly respected/successful coach for them while we got a rookie coach, COLA for them and not us etc. Not sure if you're familiar with the under resourcing issues that plagued the Brisbane Bears in their early days but that's essentially what the AFL did to us in a modern sense.

Only recently has the AFL addressed a lot of these under resourcing issues by getting us out of the tin sheds and into league standard training/admin facilities a few years ago, giving us some draft concessions to make up for the ones we didn't get at the start that GWS did get, dedicating the proper amount of funding towards our academy program so we can genuinely produce AFL standard graduates, and it would appear that the AFL are about to help us secure the highly respected/successful coach that we've never had. Since we committed to a full rebuild back in 2018 and it's taken several years to develop our young players, we're only just now starting to see what a Gold Coast AFL team is capable of when it's properly resourced.

I guarantee you the next decade will be a lot better for the Suns than our first decade.

This is a load of rubbish.

 

[GC2015]

This is a load of rubbish.

Is it? What part isn't true?

• Here's a breakdown of all the concessional inequalities: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/gwsgcconcessionsfinal-pdf.761504/
• The Tom Wills Oval training & admin facilities opened in 2014 and Austworld Centre training & admin facilities opened in 2017 and were unavailable for large portions of 2018 due to the Commonwealth Games.
• Demetriou and co installed 4-time premiership winning coach Kevin Sheedy as the Giants' inaugural coach in 2009. Rookie coach Guy McKenna was installed as the Suns' inaugural coach in 2008.
• The Giants were given COLA until 2014. The Suns were never given COLA.

 

[RedV3x]

The quality of footy should be the goal.it’s for members and fans.

How about the quality of football for people who play the game by investing in grassroots.
Why would you decimate the leagues that truly support football ?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

GC was, if not a failed idea, premature.League has never made money on GC

Incorrect, the Chargers made money. They were just a victim of the NRL being contracted to reduce the number of teams. That's also why Souths got booted out.

The quality of footy should be the goal.

Then cull Victorian teams if it's that important.

for those saying they produced x, y, z players, they put back some other clubs back a decade on their development which is still being felt.

Boo hoo. No one is owed development. As I recall, West Coast finished last the year GC came into the draft and yet they won a flag less than a decade later.

Paying extraordinary amounts for two duds from NRL was disrespectful to every other player striving to make it.

The free market has no time for your "respect". Those players had more potential to win eyeballs to the game, regardless of their skill.

they should have done gws only..

You're a hindsight hero. GWS was the more nebulous prospect whereas Gold Coast got decent crowds in trial matches. GWS did better because they were set up with better coaches, better facilities, a stronger recruiting zone, more draft concessions and more time.

 

[Colonial]

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/gwsgcconcessionsfinal-pdf.761504/

• The Tom Wills Oval training & admin facilities opened in 2014 and Austworld Centre training & admin facilities opened in 2017 and were unavailable for large portions of 2018 due to the Commonwealth Games.

Neither were start up concessions. Didn't you guys still have a facility with demountables? We trained at schools and the RSL.
Besides you have a problem with the investment then blame your state government.

• Demetriou and co installed 4-time premiership winning coach Kevin Sheedy as the Giants' inaugural coach in 2009. Rookie coach Guy McKenna was installed as the Suns' inaugural coach in 2008.

That isnt a start up concession, nor was it a win. Kev decided to stay an extra year that cost us Choc Williams and gave us Leon.
His comments about Football having an ally in the immigration department also hurt the club up here, whether he meant it or not, and gave other sports a free whack at the sport.

• The Giants were given COLA until 2014. The Suns were never given COLA.

Meh it costs what $5 dollars to live on the Gold Coast.

 

[GC2015]

Neither were start up concessions. Didn't you guys still have a facility with demountables? We trained at schools and the RSL.
Besides you have a problem with the investment then blame your state government.

Never stated the training and admin facilities were a start up concession. I stated that it was an area we were under resourced in for a long time and the Giants weren't. We trained in demountables for our first 8-9 seasons in the AFL, the Giants trained at schools and the RSL for 2 seasons. Big difference between the clubs and this was the AFL's doing. They didn't think it was a priority to get the Suns out of the demountables/into decent training facilities and were happy to piggyback the 2018 Commonwealth Games. It was our state government's fault; the AFL had more than enough sway to make it happen earlier if they wanted to (this was proven several years later when they cut deals with the QLD government to host the 2020 GF) but the AFL didn't think it was a priority. We suffered as a result.

That isnt a start up concession, nor was it a win. Kev decided to stay an extra year that cost us Choc Williams and gave us Leon.
His comments about Football having an ally in the immigration department also hurt the club up here, whether he meant it or not, and gave other sports a free whack at the sport.

Again, didn't state the inaugural coach was a concession. It was an appointment orchestrated by the AFL (just like Ron Barassi to the Swans & Leigh Matthews to the Lions) and they thought it was more important to spruik the game in West Sydney than it was on the Gold Coast. Hence the reason the marketing genius and highly successful Sheedy was installed as GWS's inaugural coach and we got a rookie coach in Guy McKenna who had a very bland personality.

Don't pretend like Sheedy did more harm than good at the Giants. That's not true and you know it.

Meh it costs what $5 dollars to live on the Gold Coast.

It's actually quite expensive to live on the Gold Coast and predictions show we will overtake Sydney as the most expensive city to live in by the end of the decade. So you're just flat out wrong about that one as well. Don't think we'll ever be gifted COLA like your club though.

Interesting that you've pointed out what isn't a concession several times but you've also completely ignored the concessional advantages listed in that pdf I provided. Feel like responding to the advantages your club was given that ours wasn't that's detailed in the pdf or are you just going to continue to ignore the truth?

 

[Colonial]

Don't pretend like Sheedy did more harm than good at the Giants. That's not true and you know it.

Not pretending, He did do more harm than good.

It's actually quite expensive to live on the Gold Coast and predictions show we will overtake Sydney as the most expensive city to live in by the end of the decade. So you're just flat out wrong about that one as well. Don't think we'll ever be gifted COLA like your club though.

Wait so because supposedly in around a decade, maybe, the Gold Coast will be ore expensive than Sydney Im flat out wrong? Wow. Talk about a stretch

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

No sporting team has ever worked on the Gold Coast.
Make Brisbane play 3 home games a year there and relocate Gold Coast to Tassy .

 

[Coolangatta]

No sporting team has ever worked on the Gold Coast.
Make Brisbane play 3 home games a year there and relocate Gold Coast to Tassy .

So your plan is to weaken the Brissy market from 11 games down to 8 and relocate a club that’s got decent crowds given their lack of on field success and booming participation growth to a heartland state that deserves to have their own ******* team? Crikey.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

So your plan is to weaken the Brissy market from 11 games down to 8 and relocate a club that’s got decent crowds given their lack of on field success and booming participation growth to a heartland state that deserves to have their own ******* team? Crikey.

It's a waste of money