20th AFL Team

[Coolangatta]

All of us on here are in vehement agreement that the Suns should not be playing in Darwin. If it’s essential for them to sell, those two games should be played in Cairns instead. Darwin is only happening because the AFL are gifting it to the Suns as an academy zone to help with their player retention and on field performance. In time, the Suns will be fine though. The region is literally charging towards 1m ppl and footy is going ahead in leaps and bounds, which is why they will prove to be an inspired choice for team #17.

My main argument is in relation to small market teams. The reality is that this league is highly competitive with some wealthy, powerful clubs. Canberra, Hobart, Darwin etc would already be in the league if they could stand on their own two feet but they can’t. Hobart can’t so they need to include their whole state (and government support) to help them be viable.

What will Canberra do to bridge the gap? For me, I see including the Riverina as a massive opportunity for them and if they can integrate in a meaningful way then it positions that bid (if put forward) as the clear standout for team #20. I’m aware that Canberra is a significantly bigger city than the other examples I listed. There’s also more competition for them though. You believe that many locals will buy multiple memberships, that may be the case, may be difficult to convince the commission and club presidents of that though.

The problem with moving the Suns out of Darwin is who else is going to play there.

You’ve heard suggestions the Roos should and would for the money but you know as well as I do that North don’t want to sell games interstate after Tasmania. If Hawthorn takes a game or more to Cairns, that rules them out of filling in the Darwin void.

Now what they could do is just swap the Hawks and Suns around but if that doesn’t happen and the Suns decide to take all their games to Gold Coast then I guess it’s bye bye AFL presence in the NT. I doubt something like my Top End round proposal would ever happen.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

The problem with moving the Suns out of Darwin is who else is going to play there.

You’ve heard suggestions the Roos should and would for the money but you know as well as I do that North don’t want to sell games interstate after Tasmania. If Hawthorn takes a game or more to Cairns, that rules them out of filling in the Darwin void.

Now what they could do is just swap the Hawks and Suns around but if that doesn’t happen and the Suns decide to take all their games to Gold Coast then I guess it’s bye bye AFL presence in the NT. I doubt something like my Top End round proposal would ever happen.

Top End round would be perfect if they were in a bind for Darwin games. As the Suns improve and they continue to produce local talent, eventually rival clubs will start to ask the question “do they still need exclusive access to Darwin?”. If they lose it as an academy zone, I think that you’re right, the Suns swapping with Hawthorn makes the most sense.

The Hawks have yet to play a men’s game in Cairns (and won’t for some years) so their ties to the region are tentative at this stage. Therefore, it wouldn’t be a step backwards for them to swap regions, particularly if they can secure Darwin as an NGA zone.

As for North, we are the O.G. FIFO cash hoes. From a PR and member satisfaction perspective, I really don’t think the club will be insane enough to pursue a secondary market outside of regional Vic after Hobart. With our history, I guess it cannot be 100% ruled out as a possibility.

 

[Canberra Pear]

It had a poke around during the week. The whole eastern side is old, really basic and quite run down compared to other AFL stadiums. It is quite depressing at the back of the stands. They have to bump in all the amenities such as toilets, food and drink. That whole half of the ground needs a bulldozer and $150m

Probably wouldn't require that much. Stage 2b and Stage 3 of the masterplan from 2013 didn't get completed, which would've involved the redevelopment of the southern and eastern stands (2b got partially done).

Those collectively were budgeted for $45.5m. Even bringing that to 2024 dollars, that's $62m. There'll probably be blow-outs, but it would still be cheaper than $150m.

 

[Canberra Pear]

As a footy fan I’ve never thought twice about driving for an hour or two to see a game. I understand that’s not everyone’s preference though so there’s a lot going for a 9-2 split as well, especially if Manuka is developed into a quality venue.

Canberra's the closest city to Wagga, but it's still a 3-hour drive away. Albury's at least 3.5.

I'd travel, but probably no more than twice a year. Any more and it becomes less of an event.

Wagga gets one Raiders game a year. It'd be interesting to see how many of those fans travel from Canberra.

 

[Walshawk]

Probably wouldn't require that much. Stage 2b and Stage 3 of the masterplan from 2013 didn't get completed, which would've involved the redevelopment of the southern and eastern stands (2b got partially done).

Those collectively were budgeted for $45.5m. Even bringing that to 2024 dollars, that's $62m. There'll probably be blow-outs, but it would still be cheaper than $150m.

Things have changed. That full upgrade was for 19,800. That won’t quite be enough. Plus that was not for a main AFL stadium, that was still a secondary venue - now they will need four change rooms, etc. And construction is up at least 50% since then. It will be half a stadium. $150m minimum.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Things have changed. That full upgrade was for 19,800. That won’t quite be enough. Plus that was not for a main AFL stadium, that was still a secondary venue - now they will need four change rooms, etc. And construction is up at least 50% since then. It will be half a stadium. $150m minimum.

This is an interesting video on the concept. Some things discussed aren’t as relevant (as it’s based around UK soccer stadiums) although from 2:40 onwards it outlines why stadium costs have spiked so sharply in recent times.

The general public in Australia are finding it hard to come to terms with the new normal when it comes to stadiums. For example, there’s public outcry about the Gabba rebuild cost - originally quoted at $1b, now $2.7b. When the Olympics are being staged at an incredible venue like SoFi stadium this year, we can hardly trot out something 8 years from now that seems archaic in comparison.

Adelaide really hit the sweet spot with AO. It contains most of the modern amenities but it was finished for $535m, before the construction costs spiked exponentially. Be crazy to think how much it would cost to complete that project in 2024.

UTAS stadium is having a similar upgrade to what you’re describing. Stage 1 and 2 of the project are explained here which involve new Northern and Eastern stands - $130m. This will only be a secondary venue too, not a primary one.

UTAS Stadium Redevelopment | Infrastructure Tasmania

www.infrastructure.tas.gov.au

 

[Walshawk]

This is an interesting video on the concept. Some things discussed aren’t as relevant (as it’s based around UK soccer stadiums) although from 2:40 onwards it outlines why stadium costs have spiked so sharply in recent times.

The general public in Australia are finding it hard to come to terms with the new normal when it comes to stadiums. For example, there’s public outcry about the Gabba rebuild cost - originally quoted at $1b, now $2.7b. When the Olympics are being staged at an incredible venue like SoFi stadium this year, we can hardly trot out something 8 years from now that seems archaic in comparison.

Adelaide really hit the sweet spot with AO. It contains most of the modern amenities but it was finished for $535m, before the construction costs spiked exponentially. Be crazy to think how much it would cost to complete that project in 2024.

UTAS stadium is having a similar upgrade to what you’re describing. Stage 1 and 2 of the project are explained here which involve new Northern and Eastern stands - $130m. This will only be a secondary venue too, not a primary one.

UTAS Stadium Redevelopment | Infrastructure Tasmania

www.infrastructure.tas.gov.au

Good video. That stuff is even more relevant in a market like Canberra where you are competing with other sports and their stadium.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Canberra's the closest city to Wagga, but it's still a 3-hour drive away. Albury's at least 3.5.

I'd travel, but probably no more than twice a year. Any more and it becomes less of an event.

Wagga gets one Raiders game a year. It'd be interesting to see how many of those fans travel from Canberra.

Fans from those regional cities constantly make that trip to watch their teams play currently. I'm sure some would happily do so then other way around if its only once or twice a year.

You'd also (hopefully) get fans of the away teams making that journey too.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Fans from those regional cities constantly make that trip to watch their teams play currently. I'm sure some would happily do so then other way around if its only once or twice a year.

You'd also (hopefully) get fans of the away teams making that journey too.

Fans are more likely to travel from the regions than to. When I lived 2.5 hours north of Adelaide, I still made 10 games in a season.

I'd definitely travel from Canberra for two games a year. One game in Wagga and one in Albury become annual roadtrips. But I probably wouldn't commit to travelling for three or more games.

Albury's not that far from Melbourne, so I expect Victorian opposition fans would make up a sizeable chunk of that crowd.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Good video. That stuff is even more relevant in a market like Canberra where you are competing with other sports and their stadium.

It’s also a consideration if a Canberra club has a secondary venue (Wagga, Albury or both). It’s hard to justify upgrades if there’s not much content at the ground. The NSW government will also be less likely to come to the party funding-wise like AFL-friendly jurisdictions like Vic and Tassie. Therefore, it might be better for them to focus on developing one quality venue in one of the those cities (that can host 2-3 games per year) instead of both.

 

[Walshawk]

It’s also a consideration if a Canberra club has a secondary venue (Wagga, Albury or both). It’s hard to justify upgrades if there’s not much content at the ground. The NSW government will also be less likely to come to the party funding-wise like AFL-friendly jurisdictions like Vic and Tassie. Therefore, it might be better for them to focus on developing one quality venue in one of the those cities (that can host 2-3 games per year) instead of both.

Lavington at Albury has recently been upgraded and it ready to go. Had 11k at a BBL game there two weeks ago. They are desperate for some AFL content.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Lavington at Albury has recently been upgraded and it ready to go. Had 11k at a BBL game there two weeks ago. They are desperate for some AFL content.

BBL, A-League, NRL, Sheffield Shield have all played in-season games at the Lavington sports oval. Some of those before the renovation even took place.

It's more than ready.
11k attendees two years in a row for BBL games, both played during the afternoon on sweltering days. Sports obsessed town.
Also, an AFL game wouldn't need the big tarp and sight screen that the Big Bash had. Could probably squeeze in a few hundred extra spectators for a sold out AFL game.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the Suns playing away in Darwin either. They're playing 9 games on the Gold Coast to the Titans' 12. That's not how you win a market.

Same as Canberra. It's a fine line to walk to bring on the Riverina and capture Canberra, but also we've got to compete against the Raiders. Playing three fewer home games than the Raiders would not be ideal.

The Suns need to play all their home games on the GC and GWS need to play all their games in Sydney for the simple reason to build a home fan base.

 

[Bjo187]

The Suns need to play all their home games on the GC and GWS need to play all their games in Sydney for the simple reason to build a home fan base.

I think the AFL are worried that the more games they have in locations that already struggle with crowds, the more those crowds will look even worse if spread across more games.

Think of it this way. Say you're a giants member and you only have 8 games to attend in w.s, you'll try to attend all 8. If you have 11 games you'll likely skip a few of the smaller games knowing you are playing Collingwood in 2 weeks time in w.s anyway.

I do agree overall with what you say, but I think that's probably a concern of theirs and the perceptions that go with it.

 

[Coolangatta]

I think the AFL are worried that the more games they have in locations that already struggle with crowds, the more those crowds will look even worse if spread across more games.

Think of it this way. Say you're a giants member and you only have 8 games to attend in w.s, you'll try to attend all 8. If you have 11 games you'll likely skip a few of the smaller games knowing you are playing Collingwood in 2 weeks time in w.s anyway.

I do agree overall with what you say, but I think that's probably a concern of theirs and the perceptions that go with it.

Not only that, but they want something out of the NT and ACT market. If it weren’t for the Giants and Suns, no one would be playing games there. The expansion clubs are the easiest target for those markets, you cannot rely on Victorian clubs for that going forward.

 

[Walshawk]

BBL, A-League, NRL, Sheffield Shield have all played in-season games at the Lavington sports oval. Some of those before the renovation even took place.

It's more than ready.
11k attendees two years in a row for BBL games, both played during the afternoon on sweltering days. Sports obsessed town.
Also, an AFL game wouldn't need the big tarp and sight screen that the Big Bash had. Could probably squeeze in a few hundred extra spectators for a sold out AFL game.

Capacity for AFL is 12k. 1800 undercover grandstand seating plus terrace seating.

 

[Walshawk]

Not only that, but they want something out of the NT and ACT market. If it weren’t for the Giants and Suns, no one would be playing games there. The expansion clubs are the easiest target for those markets, you cannot rely on Victorian clubs for that going forward.

Not true. Plenty of clubs played in Darwin and Canberra before Giants and Suns. And in 2028 Hawks and Roos will have eight space games. The Hawks would not be looking at Cairns if Canberra or Darwin were available.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Not true. Plenty of clubs played in Darwin and Canberra before Giants and Suns. And in 2028 Hawks and Roos will have eight space games. The Hawks would not be looking at Cairns if Canberra or Darwin were available.

The current deals for Hawks and Roos expire at the end of 2025. From 2026, Tassie will have a VFL side, so there’s a fair chance that by then all of the government funding will be going towards the Devils program.

I’d say Hawthorn are a better chance of staying on for a few games post-2025 than North are, no guarantees though. Wouldn’t be surprised if the AFL schedule a few random games with bigger clubs in 2027 to build momentum, IIRC Eddie suggested that a few years ago.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

I think the AFL are worried that the more games they have in locations that already struggle with crowds, the more those crowds will look even worse if spread across more games.

Think of it this way. Say you're a giants member and you only have 8 games to attend in w.s, you'll try to attend all 8. If you have 11 games you'll likely skip a few of the smaller games knowing you are playing Collingwood in 2 weeks time in w.s anyway.

I do agree overall with what you say, but I think that's probably a concern of theirs and the perceptions that go with it.

Agree with this. Ensure that games v the bigger clubs etc are always contained within those 8-9 home games and it’s a way to artificially make the attendance averages appear better than they otherwise would be.

Shifting some of those games to Canberra or Darwin also turn some potentially loss-making games for the Suns or Giants into a profitable ones. I really hope that these kinds of factors are not used to deny Canberra the 20th license, fingers crossed these two clubs can build bigger fanbases over the next few years.

 

[Coolangatta]

Not true. Plenty of clubs played in Darwin and Canberra before Giants and Suns. And in 2028 Hawks and Roos will have eight space games. The Hawks would not be looking at Cairns if Canberra or Darwin were available.

The Suns are contracted to play in Darwin until the end of 2026. I'd extend that by a year, then give the NT to Hawthorn in 2028 which is when presumably Tassie join. The Hawks could play 2-3 games in Darwin per year, give 1-2 back to Melbourne, and just play 1 guaranteed away game against Tassie in Launceston per year which covers their presence there.

From 2028 onwards, the Suns would play all their home games at Gold Coast and as many of you suggested here, if they need the money, they've got Cairns, but make it 1 game instead of 2 because they need more GC presence.

The Giants have Canberra until at least 2032. If ACT aren't team 20, I see that Canberra partnership continuing, whether we like it or not. Ideally, Canberra come in at 2033, and the Giants play all their games in Sydney, taking 1 to Newcastle only if they need the money.

Sure, hypothetically, the Roos could play 3 games in Canberra from 2033 onwards if ACT isn't team 20 but I wouldn't be so sure they'd be looking for secondary markets at all by then, let alone interstate. Imagine a scenario where ACT isn't team 20, the Giants leave Canberra (which I doubt unless they have to), and there's no one available to play any ACT games. Saints, Dogs, and Dees won't play there. I'm sure the ACT will get something, though, just not from anyone other than their own team or GWS.

NT is an easier fix. I can see the Hawks wanting to do something for the game there, helping the Indigenous community, etc, while the Giants could get the NT academy as Canberra Pear suggested since they'll need it more than the Suns will.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

The Suns are contracted to play in Darwin until the end of 2026. I'd extend that by a year, then give the NT to Hawthorn in 2028 which is when presumably Tassie join. The Hawks could play 2-3 games in Darwin per year, give 1-2 back to Melbourne, and just play 1 guaranteed away game against Tassie in Launceston per year which covers their presence there.

From 2028 onwards, the Suns would play all their home games at Gold Coast and as many of you suggested here, if they need the money, they've got Cairns, but make it 1 game instead of 2 because they need more GC presence.

The Giants have Canberra until at least 2032. If ACT aren't team 20, I see that Canberra partnership continuing, whether we like it or not. Ideally, Canberra come in at 2033, and the Giants play all their games in Sydney, taking 1 to Newcastle only if they need the money.

Sure, hypothetically, the Roos could play 3 games in Canberra from 2033 onwards if ACT isn't team 20 but I wouldn't be so sure they'd be looking for secondary markets at all by then, let alone interstate. Imagine a scenario where ACT isn't team 20, the Giants leave Canberra (which I doubt unless they have to), and there's no one available to play any ACT games. Saints, Dogs, and Dees won't play there. I'm sure the ACT will get something, though, just not from anyone other than their own team or GWS.

NT is an easier fix. I can see the Hawks wanting to do something for the game there, helping the Indigenous community, etc, while the Giants could get the NT academy as Canberra Pear suggested since they'll need it more than the Suns will.

Well said. At this stage, I cannot see how things could possibly play out any differently to that, unless the Suns decide to maintain their Darwin partnership long term and then the Hawks will presumably just focus on Cairns.

In regards to my boys, this will be an interesting watch (was discussing on another thread the other day). We’re having our community camp in Bendigo for the second year in a row. Have not heard any whispers yet and it might not amount to anything tangible, although the timing of this is very interesting. Will be keeping an eye on the community camp list for next year because it could be an indication of North’s intentions post-Hobart.

North were developing a partnership with Ballarat prior to their initial Hobart deal in 2012 and I believe the plan was for them to have a foot in both camps. The AFL swooped in and forced us out as they wanted the Dogs’ to have it. Therefore, a pivot to Bendigo from North wouldn’t be inconceivable.

Kangas coming to Bendigo, Rochester for AFL Community Camp

The AFL Community Camp program is set to return to what it was pre-COVID, with AFL clubs scheduled to visit regional communities around the country throughout February and early March, ahead of the 2023 Toyota AFL Premiership Season

www.nmfc.com.au

Roos to visit South Bendigo and Wyndham for 2024 AFL Community Camp

The AFL has confirmed the schedule for the 2024 Community Camp program, with teams heading to regional communities across Australia throughout the pre-season

www.nmfc.com.au

 

[Coolangatta]

Well said. At this stage, I cannot see how things could possibly play out any differently to that, unless the Suns decide to maintain their Darwin partnership long term and then the Hawks will presumably just focus on Cairns.

In regards to my boys, this will be an interesting watch (was discussing on another thread the other day). We’re having our community camp in Bendigo for the second year in a row. Have not heard any whispers yet and it might not amount to anything tangible, although the timing of this is very interesting. Will be keeping an eye on the community camp list for next year because it could be an indication of North’s intentions post-Hobart.

North were developing a partnership with Ballarat prior to their initial Hobart deal in 2012 and I believe the plan was for them to have a foot in both camps. The AFL swooped in and forced us out as they wanted the Dogs’ to have it. Therefore, a pivot to Bendigo from North wouldn’t be inconceivable.

Kangas coming to Bendigo, Rochester for AFL Community Camp

The AFL Community Camp program is set to return to what it was pre-COVID, with AFL clubs scheduled to visit regional communities around the country throughout February and early March, ahead of the 2023 Toyota AFL Premiership Season

www.nmfc.com.au

Roos to visit South Bendigo and Wyndham for 2024 AFL Community Camp

The AFL has confirmed the schedule for the 2024 Community Camp program, with teams heading to regional communities across Australia throughout the pre-season

www.nmfc.com.au

Yeah, wouldn't shock me to see the Roos play 2 in Bendigo in a couple years. If the Dogs extend their Ballarat partnership beyond this year, then the Goldfield area could be serviced with 4 games per year which would be good. The Riverina getting 2-3 games per year with a Canberra team would also be a nice market to tap into.

I don't see the Suns going to Cairns if they leave Darwin. They'll only give up a good thing when they feel they are big enough to play all 11 games at GC IMO.

Ideally, the Hawks take Darwin from 2028 onwards, and commit to them long-term as sort of a service for the NT community. That would be nice, especially since the NT ever getting their own team seems very unlikely.

Cairns would be a nice market to tap into but if the Suns are out and the Hawks are out, then they'll just have to sit on the sidelines. Pretty much kills any chance of a NQ team.

Like you said, if there's going to be 22 teams eventually, a third in Perth, second in Brisbane aligned with the Sunshine Coast, and one in Canberra aligned with the Riverina make the most financial sense.

Beyond that, there's very little room for expansion. It'll be interesting to see if something ever happens with Auckland or Newcastle, but I don't see the latter happening without the Giants taking a game or two there, nor do I see any presence in Cairns unless as you say, the Suns stick with Darwin, but surely their deal with the NT will eventually come to an end, but it shouldn't be now, because it's better that Darwin get games than Cairns until Darwin can be serviced by the Hawks.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Yeah, wouldn't shock me to see the Roos play 2 in Bendigo in a couple years. If the Dogs extend their Ballarat partnership beyond this year, then the Goldfield area could be serviced with 4 games per year which would be good. The Riverina getting 2-3 games per year with a Canberra team would also be a nice market to tap into.

I don't see the Suns going to Cairns if they leave Darwin. They'll only give up a good thing when they feel they are big enough to play all 11 games at GC IMO.

Ideally, the Hawks take Darwin from 2028 onwards, and commit to them long-term as sort of a service for the NT community. That would be nice, especially since the NT ever getting their own team seems very unlikely.

Cairns would be a nice market to tap into but if the Suns are out and the Hawks are out, then they'll just have to sit on the sidelines. Pretty much kills any chance of a NQ team.

Like you said, if there's going to be 22 teams eventually, a third in Perth, second in Brisbane aligned with the Sunshine Coast, and one in Canberra aligned with the Riverina make the most financial sense.

Beyond that, there's very little room for expansion. It'll be interesting to see if something ever happens with Auckland or Newcastle, but I don't see the latter happening without the Giants taking a game or two there, nor do I see any presence in Cairns unless as you say, the Suns stick with Darwin, but surely their deal with the NT will eventually come to an end, but it shouldn't be now, because it's better that Darwin get games than Cairns until Darwin can be serviced by the Hawks.

For sure. It would be awesome to have some regional footy heartlands like those with regular games.

It would be a shame for NQ to continually miss out on footy. I’d love to see Cairns having 1-2 games in the short to mid term. Hawks could be their last, best chance.

Agree totally, I’m big on those three markets as the next for expansion - in this order. Got AI to generate some concepts:

Canberra-Riverina Rams (I actually prefer Canberra Pear’s Owls idea, but the AI was too influenced by Sheffield Wednesday and kept doing a crap job haha). Wanted to get some navy on the kit too but it kept looking too similar to West Coast. The guernsey pattern would be better if more traditional as well.

North Perth Quokkas - couldn’t get it right but want a predominantly red strip to distinguish them from the Eagles and Dockers and potential West Perth involvement. The Quokkas name is growing on me - don’t want another bird mascot. A non-animal one would be cool too - perhaps Pirates?

Moreton Bay Bullsharks - if Redcliffe and the NRL can blatantly rip off the Miami Dolphins with their “fins up” slogan then surely we could borrow a similar colour scheme. Bullsharks are one of the most common shark species found in SE Qld (even spotted in the Brisbane river). Used by Bond Uni’s AFL team. A different colour scheme for our league, v different from the Lions and Suns, but gives off coastey, warm climate kind of vibes.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Agree with this. Ensure that games v the bigger clubs etc are always contained within those 8-9 home games and it’s a way to artificially make the attendance averages appear better than they otherwise would be.

Shifting some of those games to Canberra or Darwin also turn some potentially loss-making games for the Suns or Giants into a profitable ones. I really hope that these kinds of factors are not used to deny Canberra the 20th license, fingers crossed these two clubs can build bigger fanbases over the next few years.

Absolutely. Canberra definitely gets the scraps and we still get higher crowds than Western Sydney.

 

[Coolangatta]

For sure. It would be awesome to have some regional footy heartlands like those with regular games.

It would be a shame for NQ to continually miss out on footy. I’d love to see Cairns having 1-2 games in the short to mid term. Hawks could be their last, best chance.

Agree totally, I’m big on those three markets as the next for expansion - in this order. Got AI to generate some concepts:

Canberra-Riverina Rams (I actually prefer Canberra Pear’s Owls idea, but the AI was too influenced by Sheffield Wednesday and kept doing a crap job haha). Wanted to get some navy on the kit too but it kept looking too similar to West Coast. The guernsey pattern would be better if more traditional as well.

North Perth Quokkas - couldn’t get it right but want a predominantly red strip to distinguish them from the Eagles and Dockers and potential West Perth involvement. The Quokkas name is growing on me - don’t want another bird mascot. A non-animal one would be cool too - perhaps Pirates?

Moreton Bay Bullsharks - if Redcliffe and the NRL can blatantly rip off the Miami Dolphins with their “fins up” slogan then surely we could borrow a similar colour scheme. Bullsharks are one of the most common shark species found in SE Qld (even spotted in the Brisbane river). Used by Bond Uni’s AFL team. A different colour scheme for our league, v different from the Lions and Suns, but gives off coastey, warm climate kind of vibes.

Well, if the AFL got a little savvy and added Top End round, even as early as 2027 if the Suns finish up in Darwin by 2026, the NT and NQ could be serviced every year, guaranteed.

If that happened, I like the idea of the Hawks playing 2 games in Newcastle, 1 each against the Swans and Giants, but I also like the idea of them playing 2 games in Auckland.

Now that I know the Saints are keen on Auckland, though, I suppose they'd take up the mantle there but I think a potentially huge market like Auckland needs 2 games.

Roos take Bendigo, Dogs stick with Ballarat, Dees probably take their Alice Springs game back to Melbourne.

If the Suns still needed to sell a game, which I'd doubt by then, then the Sunshine Coast would fit the bill.