20th AFL Team

[Canberra Pear]

So did Ireland should we put a team there? You need to also look at the big picture. In AFL fan surveys the last 5 years NT is comfortably the preference for a 20th team. Tassie being a clear 19th where people power won the day. The game is built by the fans and you have to give them what they want.

So people wanting it makes it viable? They ask those questions as a pack of questions, and people just pick what feels right.

The respondents haven't given a second thought about demographics, just going on vibes.

 

[Run n Spread]

Yes you are.

If you consider a city of 140k, thousands of kilometres from any other substantial population base, as the most viable option. Especially if you consider it as the only option.

OK take a different tack. What makes the ACT an ideal option?
You have rebutted NT which is fine we can agree to disagree.
But why ACT? Sell it. What will it add to the comp? Why will it succeed? What identity dynamics and value will it add? How will it benefit the sport and build Australian football identity.
What will get footy excited about an ACT team? How will they be competitive? What will drive the passion. In Vic part of funding and Geelongs ability to bounce back from an economic depression was in part due to the footy team
Rather than we need team 20 let's Bradbury Canberra in.

 

[Purple Suit]

Not to mention there are only so many draft concessions that can go around. 20 teams in Australia and in as cut throat a competition in the AFL means team 20 will need to be competitive instantly. Cant be stuffing around for 15 years like the gold coast or having no interest like the giants.It will need a strong identity passionate supporters and the ability to self sustain. In other words be a true footy club. Can't have another marketing experiment. It needs to be the right fit for the competition.

Having to win is a failed argument for a new team. All teams attendance numbers rise & fall on the back of success or failure. It’s just moving attendances between teams and games. If anything, a minow being successful is less productive than a big team, far better to just have a fair & even competition rather than trying to doctor success in certain markets.

Port got good concessions, had a history, won a flag and were still rolling out the tarps once the rebuild was needed. A small franchise 20th team in a smaller market (either size or interest) will always struggle for attendance.

 

[RedV3x]

Footy is not a national sport thou

Yes it is. It just isn't evenly popular.

.NSW most of qld are simply not interested.

That grossly defies the reality of the situation.

Thats half the population.

The old electorate argument is simply ridiculous.
What proportion of the population follows sport and then what sports.

It's not a matter of sticking a team where a population is and adopting the build it they will come philosophy. There has to be inherent demand the capacity to grow and identity.

The demand for exciting sports, perhaps.

Look at the mess of GWS for example.

GWS seems to be going to plan. Not a mess at all.

Or Ports ridiculous attempts to capture China.

Actually Port's foray into China was a highly respectable attempt at combing business with football.
Covid and government stymied what could have been a ground-breaking initiative.

It was ridiculous putting a team in Western Sydney

Probably the hardest task ever but with planning and investment GWS is starting to show promise.

and hoping things would click.

Australian Rules Football is a great product. It is enjoyed in fanatical proportions around Australia.
The people of Western Sydney are no different. They are not immune to liking the Australian game.

Tassie will boom.

Tasmania is not without it's problems.

The only realistic option for the 20th team is the NT.

Well, the GWS is a no-brainer com pared to the N.T.

If that won't work a NT/NQ split. It's the final frontier.

Not the final frontier.

A truly representative comp and one with interest

Especially in western Sydney !!

 

[RedV3x]

But why ACT? Sell it. What will it add to the comp?

A new region with a city at it's centre.

Why will it succeed?

The ACT has a history of Auustralian Football with a strong local competition.
It has the population, the city, and a strong likelihood of growth.

What identity dynamics and value will it add?

Increased ratings and increased participation.

How will it benefit the sport and build Australian football identity.

Increased ratings and increased participation for AFL in the nation's capital.

What will get footy excited about an ACT team?

Increased ratings and increased participation. The possibility of a Canberra premiership.

How will they be competitive?

By the AFL's competitiveness measures.

What will drive the passion.

The ACT has a history of Auustralian Football with a strong local competition.
It has the population, the city, and a strong likelihood of growth.
Evetybody loves a winner babe.

Geelongs ability to bounce back from an economic depression was in part due to the footy team
.

Yes and Geelong is a perennial finalist.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I like to think of Canberra as the Goldilocks option. Enough AFL support to sustain a team, but enough non-AFL to actually grow the game.

What will it add to the comp?

It expands the competition, while also providing a financially viable option. It's the only option that does both. WA3 adds nothing, while the NT isn't viable.

In terms of national spread, Canberra gives the AFL a team in a contested area. It also gives another chance for more high-end meetings (Albo and Dillon met at the last Canberra game).

Why will it succeed?

We have the most unrepresented AFL fans of any city.

Financially, we've already shown we'd be sustainable. We get higher crowds than the Giants. We also have the highest median income, so more money for tickets and merch. We wouldn't be a financial burden.

Demographically, Greater Canberra has four times the population of Darwin. We're also the fastest growing state/territory. By 2050, Greater Canberra will be nearing 900k. It'd be a huge population to not be represented.

We're also next to the footy heartland of the Riverina (itself with about 200k). Canberra would be able to provide a team for the dozens of players from the Riverina, so they can stay close to friends and family.

What identity dynamics and value will it add?

It obviously won't evoke as strong an image as the NT, but even just being the capital gives it an identity. We'll also be a team for the country players. They can live close to their home towns, have friends and family visit easily. Or be able to live on a farm and still be 20 mins away from training. A bit Geelong-like, minus the surfing.

How will it benefit the sport and build Australian football identity.

Having a team so close to where the political decisions are made is invaluable.

We're also not without our history. We've been bidding the longest for a team. We gave the sport its arguably most famous mark (Jesaulenko), and the founder of the game (Tom Wills).

Canberra is in no way as romantic an option as the NT, but it's not without its excitement. But most importantly, it's viable. A bid shouldn't be made on romance alone (which the NT is).

 

[Coolangatta]

The only realistic option for the 20th team is the NT. If that won't work a NT/NQ split. It's the final frontier. A truly representative comp and one with interest

I can understand the romanticism argument for an NT team but I’m sick of hearing this last piece of the jigsaw puzzle argument.

It’s not a complete national comp without the capital city.

 

[Saucy]

Team 19: Tasmania Devils
Team 20: Perth Miners

I would personally relocate either GWS or NM to Canberra. I honestly think it should be NM.

Which would make 9 Vic, 3 WA, 2 SA, 2 NSW, 2 QLD, 1 ACT & 1 Tas.

And in the future we could add a 3rd NSW & 3rd QLD team.

But, stay at 20 teams for a very, very long time.

 

[Bjo187]

Team 19: Tasmania Devils
Team 20: Perth Miners

I would personally relocate either GWS or NM to Canberra. I honestly think it should be NM.

Which would make 9 Vic, 3 WA, 2 SA, 2 NSW, 2 QLD, 1 ACT & 1 Tas.

And in the future we could add a 3rd NSW & 3rd QLD team.

But, stay at 20 teams for a very, very long time.

Exactly what I think as well, it would balance the league the best it's ever been distributed and gives North a great location to boom in for their future.

 

[Run n Spread]

I like to think of Canberra as the Goldilocks option. Enough AFL support to sustain a team, but enough non-AFL to actually grow the game.



It expands the competition, while also providing a financially viable option. It's the only option that does both. WA3 adds nothing, while the NT isn't viable.

In terms of national spread, Canberra gives the AFL a team in a contested area. It also gives another chance for more high-end meetings (Albo and Dillon met at the last Canberra game).



We have the most unrepresented AFL fans of any city.

Financially, we've already shown we'd be sustainable. We get higher crowds than the Giants. We also have the highest median income, so more money for tickets and merch. We wouldn't be a financial burden.

Demographically, Greater Canberra has four times the population of Darwin. We're also the fastest growing state/territory. By 2050, Greater Canberra will be nearing 900k. It'd be a huge population to not be represented.

We're also next to the footy heartland of the Riverina (itself with about 200k). Canberra would be able to provide a team for the dozens of players from the Riverina, so they can stay close to friends and family.



It obviously won't evoke as strong an image as the NT, but even just being the capital gives it an identity. We'll also be a team for the country players. They can live close to their home towns, have friends and family visit easily. Or be able to live on a farm and still be 20 mins away from training. A bit Geelong-like, minus the surfing.



Having a team so close to where the political decisions are made is invaluable.

We're also not without our history. We've been bidding the longest for a team. We gave the sport its arguably most famous mark (Jesaulenko), and the founder of the game (Tom Wills).

Canberra is in no way as romantic an option as the NT, but it's not without its excitement. But most importantly, it's viable. A bid shouldn't be made on romance alone (which the NT is).

Bloody great argument a decent debate finally

 

[Run n Spread]

But real dynamics are needed. Canberra is fine but a 20th team needs a viable but while option and needs to connect with a wider audience and while I haye the world. A real rizz option. NT just provides something to the game ACT doesnt.
Hoe many junior and footy tours are going to the ACT opposed to NT?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Bloody great argument a decent debate finally

I think most of that has already been said pretty frequently in this thread. Probably less recently as I didn't want to bore everybody from my soapbox.

But real dynamics are needed. Canberra is fine but a 20th team needs a viable but while option and needs to connect with a wider audience and while I haye the world. A real rizz option. NT just provides something to the game ACT doesnt.
Hoe many junior and footy tours are going to the ACT opposed to NT?

I'm not denying that the NT has more "rizz". But "rizz" can only get you so far. Alice Springs would have more rizz than Canberra. But you wouldn't base a team in Alice Springs, would you?

At the end of the say, there are two feasible options. Canberra and a third Perth team. Compared to the NT, they're both boring. But of those two options, Canberra has more of what you're looking for.

 

[BigChippa52]

if the AFL is smart enough to do what other clubs are doing they will ignore the fans so no NT or WA3 and go with Canberra which is the best option and will benefit the AFL, as I've said before the NT is too humid during the winter, places have to go in special cool rooms during each qtr break, there is a reason the NTFL is a summer league

 

[Bjo187]

There's also something I saw recently that every semi professional sports team in the n.t has failed and folded in the 2000s.

 

[RedV3x]

But real dynamics are needed. Canberra is fine but a 20th team needs a viable but while option and needs to connect with a wider audience and while I haye the world. A real rizz option. NT just provides something to the game ACT doesnt.

"RIzz" is something I'd never use in the same sentence as the N.T.

 

[Run n Spread]

"RIzz" is something I'd never use in the same sentence as the N.T.

Well whatever keep cheering that mortgage. An NT team is happening

 

[Roylion]

Whether new teams are in Canberra or Darwin or both, neither will be a relocated North Melbourne.

 

[The Educator]

Well whatever keep cheering that mortgage. An NT team is happening

The only way the NT is happening is if the federal government backs in a team with north of $1 Billion in stadium / training base and ongoing subsidy.

Greater Darwin has 140,000 people. It is 30 hours drive to get to anywhere with more than 25,000 people.

Greater Canberra has almost 4 times the population and is 3 hours from Sydney and 7 hours from Melbourne

Throw in the Riverina, the south coast etc and Canberra is servicing a region of a million people with significant Australian football interest / pedigree.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Well whatever keep cheering that mortgage. An NT team is happening

The fact you seem incredibly unaware of everything happening in Western Sydney but somehow seem to be supportive of an NT team is quite telling

Whether new teams are in Canberra or Darwin or both, neither will be a relocated North Melbourne.

It won't be happening.

 

[The Educator]

if the AFL is smart enough to do what other clubs are doing they will ignore the fans so no NT or WA3 and go with Canberra which is the best option and will benefit the AFL, as I've said before the NT is too humid during the winter, places have to go in special cool rooms during each qtr break, there is a reason the NTFL is a summer league

Actually the NTFL is played during the wet season presumably based on an historic arrangement with cricket.

 

[BigChippa52]

Well whatever keep cheering that mortgage. An NT team is happening

too much money too liable and the NT is a shithole of a place locals wouldn't be able to afford tickets, welfare and centerlink can't cover that it needs to cover the various addictions not trying to be offensive but its true I don't want it to be, there is a reason the ntfl is a summer league too humid to play during winter

 

[BigChippa52]

Actually the NTFL is played during the wet season presumably based on an historic arrangement with cricket.

from what i was told by teammates and people who have played in the league it was mainly due to the winter months being too humid to play the game safely and properly, my old man used to play up there when he was doing work and FIFO up there

 

[The Educator]

from what i was told by teammates and people who have played in the league it was mainly due to the winter months being too humid to play the game safely and properly, my old man used to play up there when he was doing work and FIFO up there

You heard incorrectly

The "winter" months are what is know as the dry season. This is when cricket it is played in Darwin. The "summer" months are the wet season (i.e. where it gets very humid and uncomfortable) and that is when the NTFL is played.

 

[Aussie in exile]

I like to think of Canberra as the Goldilocks option. Enough AFL support to sustain a team, but enough non-AFL to actually grow the game.



It expands the competition, while also providing a financially viable option. It's the only option that does both. WA3 adds nothing, while the NT isn't viable.

In terms of national spread, Canberra gives the AFL a team in a contested area. It also gives another chance for more high-end meetings (Albo and Dillon met at the last Canberra game).



We have the most unrepresented AFL fans of any city.

Financially, we've already shown we'd be sustainable. We get higher crowds than the Giants. We also have the highest median income, so more money for tickets and merch. We wouldn't be a financial burden.

Demographically, Greater Canberra has four times the population of Darwin. We're also the fastest growing state/territory. By 2050, Greater Canberra will be nearing 900k. It'd be a huge population to not be represented.

We're also next to the footy heartland of the Riverina (itself with about 200k). Canberra would be able to provide a team for the dozens of players from the Riverina, so they can stay close to friends and family.



It obviously won't evoke as strong an image as the NT, but even just being the capital gives it an identity. We'll also be a team for the country players. They can live close to their home towns, have friends and family visit easily. Or be able to live on a farm and still be 20 mins away from training. A bit Geelong-like, minus the surfing.



Having a team so close to where the political decisions are made is invaluable.

We're also not without our history. We've been bidding the longest for a team. We gave the sport its arguably most famous mark (Jesaulenko), and the founder of the game (Tom Wills).

Canberra is in no way as romantic an option as the NT, but it's not without its excitement. But most importantly, it's viable. A bid shouldn't be made on romance alone (which the NT is).

I'm beginning to think now that someone or some people in AFL house don't want a team in Canberra for reasons unknown to me.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I'm beginning to think now that someone or some people in AFL house don't want a team in Canberra for reasons unknown to me.

What makes you say that?

We haven't been the highest priority in the past, but I feel attitudes have changed with the CEOs.

Gil called us "Giants territory", whereas I've never heard Dillon say that. Dillon has mentioned us a couple of times when discussing a 20th team, whereas Gil never did.