20th AFL Team

[Run n Spread]

Why is Canberra given a pass of an outlier crowd and bad weather but not the NT.
The 7k crowd was nearly doubled the next week.
The NT has more to offer for team 20. They'll need to be competitive and well supported from day 1. Canberra's fans aren't even sure they want GWS there.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Why is Canberra given a pass of an outlier crowd and bad weather but not the NT.

Not saying we are, but Canberra, typically has dry winters. That is much more of an outlier than Darwin having torrential rain during the wet season.

The 7k crowd was nearly doubled the next week.

You got 12.3k to Hawthorn this year. We got 13.3k to the same fixture last year.

This year, you got 9.8k to the Bulldogs, we got 12.3k.

You're the one that pointed out crowds as a reason for the NT over Canberra. I'm just showing how the numbers don't agree with you.

The NT has more to offer for team 20.

They'll also cost much, much, much more.

Canberra's fans aren't even sure they want GWS there.

That's kind of the point. The Giants are a FIFO interstate team that we're not fully behind, and we're still getting consistently good crowds.

Throw in the passion of an actual home team and that'll increase exponentially.

 

[Run n Spread]

GWS absolutely bleeds money. They haven't really made a dent nor produced any talent from west Sydney.
AFL can't afford the same mistake going into a non football heartland thinking it will grow.
NT has the talent pathways systems and support in place. Upgrade the stadium a bit and its ready to go

 

[Canberra Pear]

GWS absolutely bleeds money. They haven't really made a dent nor produced any talent from west Sydney.
AFL can't afford the same mistake going into a non football heartland thinking it will grow.
NT has the talent pathways systems and support in place.

If GWS bleeds money, then the NT will haemorrhage it.

The scoping report said they'd have a $15 million gap after getting the same distro as the Giants.

Somebody pushing for an NT team has no business disparaging the cost of the Giants.

Upgrade the stadium a bit and its ready to go

That's a massive understatement.

 

[Coolangatta]

If GWS bleeds money, then the NT will haemorrhage it.

The scoping report said they'd have a $15 million gap after getting the same distro as the Giants.

Somebody pushing for an NT team has no business disparaging the cost of the Giants.



That's a massive understatement.

Yeah, NT isn’t like Tassie where it’s “Build a billion dollar stadium and the business case stacks up.”

Just on the stadium, would the feds really give the NT a billion dollars to build it?

Because if you think Tasmania is having a hard time building the stadium…

 

[davidgoes4wce]

Paul Haselby ex-Docker makes a strong case for the 20th licence to be in Bunbury today article:

Hasleby: Why Bunbury should be handed AFL’s 20th license

More than two years ago, I advocated for the AFL to give the 20th license to Bunbury. And given the week just gone, there is no better time to rejuvenate the push than right now, writes Paul Hasleby.

thewest.com.au

Can read behind a paywall:

https://archive.md/75zNj

Im heading back to Sydney this week but as Peter V 'Landys (NRL boss) said in the past before the NRL team came in: 'WA is a rusted down AFL State'


It would be a chance for the WA to really grow their markets since that South West region is growing at a rapid rate. Seems like a lot of noise and everything about this week anyway has been off-field success for everyone involved in that community. And I reckon, it would be a region to attract footballers to live.....I dare say it would be more a better lifestyle than living in Perth.

 

[Coolangatta]

Paul Haselby ex-Docker makes a strong case for the 20th licence to be in Bunbury today article:

Hasleby: Why Bunbury should be handed AFL’s 20th license

More than two years ago, I advocated for the AFL to give the 20th license to Bunbury. And given the week just gone, there is no better time to rejuvenate the push than right now, writes Paul Hasleby.

thewest.com.au

Can read behind a paywall:

https://archive.md/75zNj

Im heading back to Sydney this week but as Peter V 'Landys (NRL boss), 'WA is a rusted down AFL State'


It would be a chance for the WA to really grow their markets since that South West region is growing at a rapid rate. Seems like a lot of noise and everything about this week anyway has been off-field success for everyone involved in that community.

South West is way too small to support a team. A Bunbury team is the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard, they don’t even have a WAFL team ffs!

Do that first. Heck, if you were gonna ever have a SW team, place them in Busselton, Bunbury is a shithole. Busselton is at least 30-50 years away from being able to, though.

If WA3 is team 20, the AFL will want them at Optus. It’d be another Perth club. Why build a new stadium when you’ve got a world class one ready to go?

 

[davidgoes4wce]

South West is way too small to support a team. A Bunbury team is the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard, they don’t even have a WAFL team ffs!

Do that first. Heck, if you were gonna ever have a SW team, place them in Busselton, Bunbury is a shithole. Busselton is at least 30-50 years away from being able to, though.

If WA3 is team 20, the AFL will want them at Optus. It’d be another Perth club. Why build a new stadium when you’ve got a world class one ready to go?

Paul Haselby mentions in the article which is a very valid point, for the small-market teams, the Bunbury team could host them there.

And I reckon if you have the big market teams coming over to play Bunbury AFL Side eg WA Derbies, Collingwoods, Essendons, Carltons, Richmonds you play them at Optus.

The main benefits would be less travel for all WA teams. Eagles could in theory have 13 home games in WA, 9 away games and a Gather Round possibility in WA.

Having an expanded comp to SA3 or NSW3 would mean more travel for the current Dockers and Eagles side.

Also I spend a large amount of my time in Sydney during the year, GWS will still draw out those 9k-11k crowds at Showgrounds and it will probably at least another 10 years before we are talking about 15k crowds.

Pretty sure given how this week has gone, Bunbury despite a population of 75k, would be ready, and can draw on the populations : of Margaret River, Mandurah, Cape Leeuwin and anything probably halfway distance from Fremantle and Bunbury.

 

[Coolangatta]

Paul Haselby mentions in the article which is a very valid point, for the small-market teams, the Bunbury team could host them there.

And I reckon if you have the big market teams coming over to play Bunbury AFL Side eg WA Derbies, Collingwoods, Essendons, Carltons, Richmonds you play them at Optus.

The main benefits would be less travel.

Having an expanded comp to SA3 or NSW3 would mean more travel for the current Dockers and Eagles side.

Also I spend a large amount of my time in Sydney during the year, GWS will still draw out those 9k-11k crowds at Showgrounds and it will probably at least another 10 years before we are talking about 15k crowds.

Pretty sure given how this week has gone, Bunbury despite a population of 75k, would be ready, and can draw on the populations : of Margaret River, Mandurah, Cape Leeuwin and anything probably halfway distance from Fremantle and Bunbury.

Yeah I just read it. I mean look, the South West would be fine as a secondary market, but that’s all it could be.

They’d have to play the Eagles and Dockers twice, Cats, Pies, Blues, Tigers, Hawks, and Bombers all at Optus.

Those clubs are all too big to play down south, it’d be a waste there, and they would for sure get 30k+ to those games.

The others, sure. It might be something like 7 home games at Optus and 4 in the SW with two away derbies, it’d be silly not to maximise usage of Optus.

But then would it truly be a South West team if they play the majority of their home games at Optus? Of course the players could still live there.

On the plus side, the South West Sharks does sound cool as ****.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

Yeah I just read it. I mean look, the South West would be fine as a secondary market, but that’s all it could be.

They’d have to play the Eagles and Dockers twice, Cats, Pies, Blues, Tigers, Hawks, and Bombers all at Optus.

Those clubs are all too big to play down south, it’d be a waste there, and they would for sure get 30k+ to those games.

The others, sure. It might be something like 7 home games at Optus and 4 in the SW with two away derbies, it’d be silly not to maximise usage of Optus.

But then would it truly be a South West team if they play the majority of their home games at Optus? Of course the players could still live there.

On the plus side, the South West Sharks does sound cool as ****.

Well I think it would make Bunbury/Margaret River almost like a 2nd town in WA. The WA government has already invested money for another international sporting event there this month, the Matildas are playing down there.


I have been down South to Margaret River many-a-time, it would be a gateway for alot of Eastern states to travel down South without having to go via Perth. But I do agree with your point ideally it has to be majority of games down in Bunbury to make it have a Bunbury vibe feel to the team. Maybe 6 home games in Bunbury would be a realistic expectation?

I tried to get tickets this week for the Bunbury game this week, but I have been told the tickets were sold out long before in advance.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Pretty sure given how this week has gone, Bunbury despite a population of 75k, would be ready, and can draw on the populations : of Margaret River, Mandurah, Cape Leeuwin and anything probably halfway distance from Fremantle and Bunbury.

Even drawing in a wide area, the Southwest is still under 200k.

You can stretch it to almost 400k if you include Peel, but that's really crossing into Freo territory.

So that's still not a lot of people over a pretty wide area.

 

[RedV3x]

The WA government has already invested money for another international sporting event there this month, the Matildas are playing down there.

Is that a euphemism for not wanting the cost, embarrassment, inconvenience of playing in the city
when a government can spin it as doing something positive for rural communities.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

Even drawing in a wide area, the Southwest is still under 200k.

You can stretch it to almost 400k if you include Peel, but that's really crossing into Freo territory.

So that's still not a lot of people over a pretty wide area.

It just strikes to the core though, a team like GWS, struggle to get 12k to a game at the Showgrounds. I am a big advocate for Canberra , to get a team though. And ive definitely lessened my stance on NSW3. Until GWS get 15k+ crowds in Sydney on a regular one can bring this conversation back.

Having been to Manuka Oval a fair few times as well. If the 20th team were to come through dare I say it would probably be a battle between WA3 and ACT to be honest. Canberra has the population and strong attendances for the games they have picked up, WA3 has the infrastructure and grass roots support there...........

 

[RedV3x]

You can stretch it to almost 400k if you include Peel, but that's really crossing into Freo territory.

I would say that Peel has a leaning towards Freo but not enough to be called Freo territory.

So that's still not a lot of people over a pretty wide area.

Well 200k~400k can be a significant number for a city but for regions you would be relying on
people driving not insignificant distances to games.
I know people that do, but that's just anecdotal.
Canberra would have a much much better case w.r.t. city + region reach.
If Bunbury was a legimate option then there would be a Bunbury WAFL team.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

Is that a euphemism for not wanting the cost, embarrassment, inconvenience of playing in the city
when a government can spin it as doing something positive for rural communities.

The Matildas will be playing 3 games at HBF Park in Perth in June and 1 match in Bunbury. So to answer your question, the government wants to attract international/ major sporting events into WA. Roger Cook Premier , seems to have money and the want to bring these events to WA specifically.

We have to remember WA outbid Melbourne and Adelaide for alot of the Asian Cup 2026 Womens tournament matches next year.

A 23 home and away fixture, with 13 home games in your home state, 9 away fixture and a Gather Round- the possibility of 14 games in your home state would be mighty attractive. Any time that you can lessen that burden of travel is always a good thing as a WA based team.

A Bunbury based or Joondalup based side could play and should play 7 home games in their home stadia IMO. And given the demand Im sure you could clear 25k+ in their own boutique stadium , even in weeks where there is a 2nd game in WA. Time will tell but if Bunbury turned out to be a success over the next 3 years with sell outs now looking a cert, maybe another team could come off and play a 1 off fixture there maybe involving two neutral teams? Id reckon two neutral teams in Bunbury would sell out as well.

And Ill say this , Sydney teams can host 2 consecutive games in one of the rounds recently-ironically on the same day. If you were to fixture 2 games in the same week in WA, you just wouldnt want them to be on the same day.

Perth sporting landscape right now, with the introduction of the NRL Perth Bears in 2027, maybe someone at the AFL house might seen a potential danger and want to just keep the AFL focus on footy in WA. I think WA is now at a stage where it can deal with multiple sporting events on a weekend. The COVID year in 2020 was a case in point in which WA showed that it could handle multiple AFL Fixtures on a weekend.

 

[RedV3x]

Until GWS get 15k+ crowds in Sydney on a regular one can bring this conversation back.

You mean until GWS gets 15k+ crowds against non Swans teams.
IMO, having a Canberra team would release GWS to having it's home games at home
and that would increase exposure and owning to help push attendances up.

 

[RedV3x]

maybe someone at the AFL house might seen a potential danger

The only potential danger comes from within the AFL itself.

and want to just keep the AFL focus on footy in WA.

That is impossible. Though AFL is appreciated widely across the land because of it's natural attributes
some people do prefer other sports to pay or watch.
I watch American football but I'd never play it and there is no way American Football could flourish where there is AFL.

I think WA is now at a stage where it can deal with multiple sporting events on a weekend.

That was the thinking behind the new stadium.for the Force and the Perth Stadium.
The problem rests solely with Qantas. It costs a fortune to fly to Perth.
To get the benefit of a cheap flight invariably we have to fly East first.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

You mean until GWS gets 15k+ crowds against non Swans teams.
IMO, having a Canberra team would release GWS to having it's home games at home
and that would increase exposure and owning to help push attendances up.

A NSW3 or ACT team would be of benefit to the Swans and Giants. It allows the Giants to specifically concentrate on the NSW market. At the moment I feel like them venturing into Canberra, is not of great assistance to their Sydney members/players. When your a non-Vic team, every one of those home market games in their home city counts in terms of : branding, marketing, growing your market etc. The AFL in the back of their minds wants a game every week in Sydney.

Canberra has done everything in the box to do what they need to do to get their own AFL team. Have always had close to sell-outs for their BBL and AFL games that they get. Sure, they would have spend a bit to upgrade Manuka to a proper spectator facility. I dont know much about the Canberra Raiders but only heard they get close to sell outs there. Canberras population demands a proper 3rd footy winter code after the Brumbies and Raiders.

Im also aware that having a 20th or 21st side might dilute the AFL product a bit too. No offence but the games this week have been a bit lower end of the skill level. More is not necessarily meaning a better quality product to watch.There gets to a point where the quality reaches a bit of a tipping point. There have been some very ordinary games to watch in 2025 , where you wouldn't pay it if you had to watch it.

 

[Canberra Pear]

It just strikes to the core though, a team like GWS, struggle to get 12k to a game at the Showgrounds. I am a big advocate for Canberra , to get a team though.

Having been to Manuka Oval a fair few times as well. If the 20th team were to come through dare I say it would probably be a battle between WA3 and ACT to be honest. Canberra has the population and strong attendances for the games they have picked up, WA3 has the infrastructure there...........

I think it'll be a battle between the two, but it'll be between Canberra and a third Perth (Joondalup) team. I just don't think anywhere else in WA can sustain a team.

I think Canberra pretty much makes more sense than WA3 in almost every sense except infrastructure. And if Manuka gets upgraded as planned, there won't be much difference there.

WA3's main advantage is Optus. But if they have to build/upgrade a stadium at either Joondalup or Bunbury, then they don't really have much of an infrastructure advantage.

 

[Aussie in exile]

GWS absolutely bleeds money. They haven't really made a dent nor produced any talent from west Sydney.
AFL can't afford the same mistake going into a non football heartland thinking it will grow.
NT has the talent pathways systems and support in place. Upgrade the stadium a bit and its ready to go

If GWS bleeds money, then the NT will haemorrhage it.

The scoping report said they'd have a $15 million gap after getting the same distro as the Giants.

Somebody pushing for an NT team has no business disparaging the cost of the Giants.



That's a massive understatement.

GWS need to play ALL HOME GAMES in Sydney, otherwise they will continue to struggle to establish themselves among SYdney sport fans.

 

[Run n Spread]

The success of today's game in Bunbury proves a smaller passionate footy mad city can support a team. 75000 population for 14000 in. That could double with Darwin. A game in Alice 1 or 2 in Cairns and they're sorted. All Canberra's argument seems to be is we have people. Need to demonstrate there footy credentials

 

[speedpeck23]

Somehow think we are years and years away from a 20th team given the criteria the AFL has put on Tassie. The fixturing of Victorian clubs to play more often interstate in strategic venues is the logical option. eg North today at Bunbury.

 

[Coolangatta]

The success of today's game in Bunbury proves a smaller passionate footy mad city can support a team. 75000 population for 14000 in. That could double with Darwin. A game in Alice 1 or 2 in Cairns and they're sorted. All Canberra's argument seems to be is we have people. Need to demonstrate there footy credentials

The South West is 2 hours away from Perth. You’re kidding yourself if you think people from other parts of WA and some from interstate didn’t come over for this.

It’s not like 20% of Bunbury rocked up and the SW is more than just 75k.

The NT and Darwin is just way too small and isolated.

Upgrade Manuka to 25k and a Canberra club will get 20k plus to most games.

Darwin will not get crowds like that regularly for another 30+ years at minimum.

Maybe a South West team could get 20k plus a game playing 7 games there per year with 4 at Optus and 2 away derbies because of the proximity of Perth.

But even then, you’re leaving Canberra too under-utilised. If they aren’t going to put a team there next decade then at least get the Hawks and North to shift their secondary market games there so they’re getting 6-8 games per year.

Top end round can cover NT/NQ and Suns/GWS can play full time in their own cities.

 

[Canberra Pear]

The success of today's game in Bunbury proves a smaller passionate footy mad city can support a team. 75000 population for 14000 in. That could double with Darwin. A game in Alice 1 or 2 in Cairns and they're sorted.

If anything it shows the opposite for Darwin.

Bunbury is two hours from a city of 2.4 million people. That's a huge part in its success.

Darwin is a 26-hour drive to the closest city of over 100k.

Darwin and Bunbury are both small, but Darwin is just so bloody remote. Zero nearby population to lean on.

All Canberra's argument seems to be is we have people. Need to demonstrate there footy credentials

Do the higher crowds than Darwin not count as footy credentials?

 

[Coolangatta]

Do the higher crowds than Darwin not count as footy credentials?

Apparently not. Maybe it’s that Canberra hasn’t produced the players per capita that the Northern Territory has, but the population and the business case matters.

If greater Darwin had 500k people then okay, sure, it could be like Tasmania, for the nostalgia, romance and history, but that’s not the case here and they couldn’t even keep a NEAFL club afloat.

And that’s the problem with Bunbury. People are talking about an AFL team there but they aren’t even big enough to support a WAFL team, seriously!?