20th AFL Team

[Canberra Pear]

Apparently not. Maybe it’s that Canberra hasn’t produced the players per capita that the Northern Territory has, but the population and the business case matters.

We've really got to dispel this.

Canberra, and the wider Southern NSW, has contributed a lot to the game.

I know we're not as a romantic option as the NT, but we're far from a footy wasteland.

In fact, we had two draftees at the national draft, the NT had none.

 

[RedV3x]

I think WA is now at a stage where it can deal with multiple sporting events on a weekend.

Perth has two AFL teams, the very successful Perth Wildcats and the West Coast Ferns.
Once upon a time Perth Glory were big, the Force was big, the Perth Heat were big. Motorsport was big and we had two renditions of the Reds.
The state government has flagged heavy expenditure in field hockey.
Most WAFL grounds have had massive upgrades to become family friendly.

High profile sporting teams are nothing new in Perth but endruring high profile sporting teams are another matter
even with the usual favourable start.
.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

Perth has two AFL teams, the very successful Perth Wildcats and the West Coast Ferns.
Once upon a time Perth Glory were big, the Force was big, the Perth Heat were big. Motorsport was big and we had two renditions of the Reds.
The state government has flagged heavy expenditure in field hockey.
Most WAFL grounds have had massive upgrades to become family friendly.

High profile sporting teams are nothing new in Perth but endruring high profile sporting teams are another matter
even with the usual favourable start.
.

Ive lived in Sydney for a large proportion of time in the last 11 years, venturing and stay parts of my time in Perth in that time frame.

There is a struggle alone to drive up crowds and interest in NSW during the winter season when you deal with : 9 NRL sides, 2 AFL teams, 5 A-League sides, NSW Waratahs and 2 NBL teams. Multiple of these sporting events overlap most of the time. The NRL is at a stage is that its oversaturated , with poor crowds. Yes there is a tribal following but Im not sure if you can grow those markets any further in NSW. I am aware you don't want to get in a situation where crowds don't turn up due to not being bothered. Having said that I reckon WA offers the best climate year-round for sports. Another factor is Sydneysiders tend to be a more of 'bandwagon 'supporters. Win= rock up most of the time, Lose= they will fade. The Eagles are still able to draw 40K+ crowds even in their current climate of being a really bad team.

Id say a 3rd supported Perth Bears will be successful due to the thirst of sport in WA. Western Australians no doubt in mind, get behind their sports team more than the NSW. Perth is the 4th biggest city in terms of population. As a bit of a comparison, QLD has : 2 AFL, 4 NRL, QLD Reds, Brisbane Bullets, Brisbane Roar.............I dont think the addition of the latest team the Redcliffe Dolphins as impacted their crowds too much, nor affected their other sporting codes, although I did hear that the Brisbane Roar are on the verge of extinction.

What will be impacted would be grass roots level footy eg WAFL.

 

[RedV3x]

Ive lived in Sydney for a large proportion of time in the last 11 years, venturing and stay parts of my time in Perth in that time frame.

I've spent more than two decades in both cities and there are some significant differences.

Im not sure if you can grow those markets any further in NSW.

You certainly can grow AFL in Sydney.

Id say a 3rd supported Perth Bears will be successful due to the thirst of sport in WA.

There is a thirst for sport in W.A.but not just any sport.

Western Australians no doubt in mind, get behind their sports team more than the NSW.

But not just any sport teams.
The Wildcats are big in Perth but basketball is almost insignificant in Sydney.
The Glory are insignificant in Perth now but soccer has a strong place in Sydney.
Baseball is huge in W.A. but poor elsewhere
At one stage it was all W.A, in field hockey and not a blip elsewhere.
Netball is flavour of the month in Perth and huge.
Netball and AFLW vie for women's attention here.
Rugby has come and gone.

The question is not whether the Bears will be supported but rather is there enough expats to sustain interest
and I think the NRL made a very poor choice in choosing somebody's pet instead of a logical candidate.

I dont think the addition of the latest team the Redcliffe Dolphins as impacted their crowds too much,

Why should they?

What will be impacted would be grass roots level footy eg WAFL.

You haven't learnt much in you W.A. stay.
The WAFL is "semipro" as they say The WAAFL are the amateurs.
I've been following a French import in the WAFLW lately and their crowds are superior to most ALW crowds.

 

[Giant YoYo]

You certainly can grow AFL in Sydney.

It's amusing that everyone thinks we're all league fans in Sydney. My friendship circle is pretty much all non-league/non-sports fans. I, myself, was never a sports fan, let alone leagues fan based on the sports on offer here. I'm still not but footy has helped me learn about other sports more.

The market is huge but awareness is poor.

 

[RedV3x]

It's amusing that everyone thinks we're all league fans in Sydney. My friendship circle is pretty much all non-league/non-sports fans. I, myself, was never a sports fan, let alone leagues fan based on the sports on offer here. I'm still not but footy has helped me learn about other sports more.

When I saw the introduction of AFL in Sydney I was amazed at the low level of discussion about the NSWRL at work and socially. Now, my new family were typical Sydney-siders and nominally Roosters fans, but they never went to a game and only occasionally would watch part of a game on television. Over the years i got the family to attend Swans games and become avid Swans fans and members. Yes, the family are still interested enough to follow the Rooster's results but the AFLis usually much more exciting.

At work, I invited some non-sports fans along to the SCG and they became the most ardent Swans fans ever, even sprinkling a partner.s ashes onto the SCG when nobody was looking.

 

[Rob]

And that’s the problem with Bunbury. People are talking about an AFL team there but they aren’t even big enough to support a WAFL team, seriously!?

That's not quite true. The reason there isn't a WAFL team down there is because they don't want it. They've got a decent league of their own and probably don't want to farm players out to a WAFL team.

 

[The Educator]

Ive lived in Sydney for a large proportion of time in the last 11 years, venturing and stay parts of my time in Perth in that time frame.

There is a struggle alone to drive up crowds and interest in NSW during the winter season when you deal with : 9 NRL sides, 2 AFL teams, 5 A-League sides, NSW Waratahs and 2 NBL teams. Multiple of these sporting events overlap most of the time. The NRL is at a stage is that its oversaturated , with poor crowds. Yes there is a tribal following but Im not sure if you can grow those markets any further in NSW. I am aware you don't want to get in a situation where crowds don't turn up due to not being bothered. Having said that I reckon WA offers the best climate year-round for sports. Another factor is Sydneysiders tend to be a more of 'bandwagon 'supporters. Win= rock up most of the time, Lose= they will fade. The Eagles are still able to draw 40K+ crowds even in their current climate of being a really bad team.

Id say a 3rd supported Perth Bears will be successful due to the thirst of sport in WA. Western Australians no doubt in mind, get behind their sports team more than the NSW. Perth is the 4th biggest city in terms of population. As a bit of a comparison, QLD has : 2 AFL, 4 NRL, QLD Reds, Brisbane Bullets, Brisbane Roar.............I dont think the addition of the latest team the Redcliffe Dolphins as impacted their crowds too much, nor affected their other sporting codes, although I did hear that the Brisbane Roar are on the verge of extinction.

What will be impacted would be grass roots level footy eg WAFL.

I would have thought the Perth Bears will have pretty much zero impact on the WAFL.

I am sure it will get some support given the size of the city and the limited number of professional teams but the real challenge for the NRL is whether that support compensates for the direct costs of the team let alone the broader costs to the sport of adding an expansion team 4 hours flight from the closest existing team in a non traditional area.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

I would have thought the Perth Bears will have pretty much zero impact on the WAFL.

I am sure it will get some support given the size of the city and the limited number of professional teams but the real challenge for the NRL is whether that support compensates for the direct costs of the team let alone the broader costs to the sport of adding an expansion team 4 hours flight from the closest existing team in a non traditional area.

100% true. Setting up a WA sporting franchise/club in a national competition is more costlier than setting up a team on the East Coast of Australia. You only have to look at airfares and transporting large teams across the nation- there is a reason why flights from Perth to Sydney is more costlier than say Sydney to Melbourne.

Maybe one could charge tickets slightly higher as a small way of making it back. I do know that AFL tickets in the west are generally a tad higher than what you would buy on the East Coast. These are small things but have to be considered.

 

[RedV3x]

That's not quite true. The reason there isn't a WAFL team down there is because they don't want it. They've got a decent league of their own and probably don't want to farm players out to a WAFL team.

i suspect that is true in that Bunbury is the hub of a vibrant league which would be largely affected by the introduction of a WAFL team.
Also the WAFL clubs themselves don't want to lose their recruiting zones.
This was the reason a goldfields team was rejected even though it would have been a boon for tourism by train.

 

[RedV3x]

there is a reason why flights from Perth to Sydney is more costlier than say Sydney to Melbourne.

Well distance and volume for starters but the main preventable reason is arrogance.
Airlines know they can get away with price major gauging.
Weekends are a no-no for the budget conscious.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

Well distance and volume for starters but the main preventable reason is arrogance.
Airlines know they can get away with price major gauging.
Weekends are a no-no for the budget conscious.

I dont know the exact costs involved in the airline industry. Im assuming longer distances, fuel would have to be a factor? and hours for staff working involved? Ive always kind of thought there was a reason why the costs are the way it is. Maybe in time, prices and with increased volume it would make it alot more friendlier in terms of cost? I dont think we can ever make a comparison with the US or Europe where travelling to neighbouring states/countries is far cheaper from what I have heard.

Going from Sydney to Canberra, you can really do it in four ways: flights, bus, drive or train. A bus trip in 3 hours is very feasible and reasonable in cost. For alot of Sydney based sports fans , the issue is more about what they choose to do with their time, people are very time conscious about the things they choose to do.

I feel like even a Canberra based team, one could accommodate its players if they decide to spend time in Sydney as well. Callan Ward has an arrangement where he lives down in Melbourne with his young family and goes up to Sydney for game days.

 

[RedV3x]

I dont know the exact costs involved in the airline industry. Im assuming longer distances, fuel would have to be a factor? and hours for staff working involved?

There are so many costs. expensive fuel is roughly proportional. Staff is a cost especially if they have pay for layover.
There is maintenance roughly proportional to hours. There are airport costs and business costs.

Ive always kind of thought there was a reason why the costs are the way it is.

There is are reasons but not always logical.
Why is the cheapest Sydney to Hawaii flight via L.A.?
Why is one Asian flight leg always terrible ?
Why are Perth Sydney flights within 15 minutes of competitors ?

What the Sydney Olympics proved is that people are not prepared to pay the airfares to Australia
and that is the major flaw with W.A. governments trying to build Perth as an international sports hub
and an interstate sporting hub.

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[davidgoes4wce]

I would have thought the Perth Bears will have pretty much zero impact on the WAFL.

Feel like there is a big expat NSW /QLD community in here that alone should drive numbers minimum a week of 13k+, maybe pushing 18k in its first season. The population now is alot different to when the Western Reds were there in the mid 90s for 2 seasons. The stand alone games are indicator of that. If memory serves me correct even the Reds in those 2 seasons were getting decent crowds and every one of these neutral NRL games brought to Perth has been close to sell outs over the past decade. 10-11 games of NRL won't hurt the AFL markets in WA . I dont know exactly the number of home games the Bears will get , but having 10-11 home games still has an element of a 'novelty' factor' about it- with the likelihood of the Bears dishing 1-2 games to their North Sydney roots. But if your planning the NRL calendar, ideally you don't want to clash with AFL games in Perth- they have to get everything right from the get go. AFL is still the number 1 sport (in WA) but I can see it working like the Melbourne Storm v and the 10 Victorian AFL clubs in that state.

I heard from somewhere that WA is the 3rd best supported state at grassroots level for league. You also do have alot of sports fans in WA that don't support Eagles or Freo (or have a genuine disdain for both), and just want a 2nd sport/2nd team to follow. eg think of a Collingwood supporter based in Perth, large number of expats that support traditional NRL teams that will just be keen down to catch a game of NRL.

Where it probably impacts WAFL, is possibly a slight drop off in crowds .....although I dont follow too much of WAFL footy. Seen some decent numbers in the past year...............with more sports teams in a city it means something has to come down.

 

[Badger17]

Apparently not. Maybe it’s that Canberra hasn’t produced the players per capita that the Northern Territory has, but the population and the business case matters.

Which is a particularly silly attitude when you consider that the ACT/Capital Region is undoubtably producing significantly more professional athletes than the NT, it's just that there're better opportunities to make it in other sports than the AFL in Canberra at the moment.

The AFL could be taking a larger share of the Paddy Mills, Nick Kyrgios, Tom Rogics, all the pro RL and RU players, etc, that have come from Canberra and the region if there was a better defined and more accessible pathway to professionalism in the AFL in the region. Realistically the only way you're going to achieve that at this point is with a fulltime local club dedicated to providing those programs.

So even by the measure of potential growth in participation and draftees the ACT/Capital Region, and basically every other city in the country for that matter, has the NT covered.

 

[RedV3x]

The population now is a lot different to when the Western Reds were there in the mid 90s for 2 seasons.

Yes. though mineral boom has expanded the companies are focussing more on locals
anecdotally i don't see them any newcomers anymore.

The stand alone games are indicator of that. If memory serves me correct even the Reds in those 2 seasons were getting decent crowds

Yes and that is the history of Glory, Force and Reds - good early and then died.

AFL is still the number 1 sport (in WA)

AFL, WAFL, AFLW, WAFLW, PFL WAAFL, Australian Football is what is what drives W.A.

but I can see it working like the Melbourne Storm v and the 10 Victorian AFL clubs in that state.

How long did it take for the Storm to be established?
If the Bears don't win every NRL premiership then what is their future ?

I heard from somewhere that WA is the 3rd best supported state at grassroots level for league.

Yes, the others are really really bad.

You also do have a lot of sports fans in WA that don't support Eagles or Freo

Yes there are people who support other AFL, AFLW, Fever, Wildcats, Heat, Scorchers, Force etc.
NRL rate s extremely poorly in Perth.

Where it probably impacts WAFL, is possibly a slight drop off in crowds

Why ?
If anything the people who follow the WAFL are the most passionate about Australian football.
The supporters of WAFL and especially WAFLW usually have a strong attachment to the players etc
They would be the last people to stop attending.

With more sports teams in a city it means something has to come down.

Well the Glory, Force and Reds came and went before impacting any other sports.

 

[Badger17]

Yes and that is the history of Glory, Force and Reds - good early and then died.

Not really the fairest examples are they.

The Reds got 3 seasons then were murdered during the Super League war. Who knows how things turn out for them if SL doesn't happen, but their failure certainly isn't representative of much given the circumstances.

The Glory have been chronically mismanaged pretty much since the A-league started, and have had one foot in the grave since covid started. Get some stability, money, and success behind them and they'd come good again.

Outside of the covid effected 2021 Super Rugby AU season the Force have never made the finals in Super Rugby. Let me repeat that; out of the 17 seasons the Force have participated in the Super Rugby competition they've only made the finals once, and that was in an abbreviated version of the competition with only the Australian teams competing. Any team in any sport would struggle with that lack of on-field success.

Other sports teams have done perfectly fine in Perth as well, like the Wildcats and Scorchers for example, and I see no reason why a well run NRL side couldn't carve out it's own niche under the right circumstances either.

However in saying that, the AFL and WAFL have nothing to worry about from the Bears.

As I've said before, the Bears worse enemy will be themselves and the media in Sydney. It's only a matter of time before they go through a tough period, and as soon as they do the calls for them to move more games back 'home' to NSO and/or relocate will get louder, and louder. Naturally, that speculation will have a chilling effect on an already unstable union and what support they have in Perth, which will lead to infighting in the boardroom for control of the club, which will lead to further instability for an already struggling club.

It's happened with all the mergers, and I see no reason why this one will be any different.

 

[RedV3x]

Not really the fairest examples are they.

I don't see why not.
Glory, Force and Reds, all had good early crowds and then died.

Other sports teams have done perfectly fine in Perth as well, like the Wildcats and Scorchers for example,

They are "other codes". and they have their own appeal.
Also, most of those sports followers also follow Australian Football.

I see no reason why a well run NRL side couldn't carve out it's own niche under the right circumstances either.

Like the Giants in Sydney.

However in saying that, the AFL and WAFL have nothing to worry about from the Bears.

You were wrong to bring that up and WTF are you posting this crap in this thread ?

As I've said before, the Bears worse enemy

Is the NRL themselves.

It's happened with all the mergers, and I see no reason why this one will be any different.

As I said , "Its the NRL themselves.".

 

[davidgoes4wce]

Not really the fairest examples are they.

The Reds got 3 seasons then were murdered during the Super League war. Who knows how things turn out for them if SL doesn't happen, but their failure certainly isn't representative of much given the circumstances.

The Glory have been chronically mismanaged pretty much since the A-league started, and have had one foot in the grave since covid started. Get some stability, money, and success behind them and they'd come good again.

Outside of the covid effected 2021 Super Rugby AU season the Force have never made the finals in Super Rugby. Let me repeat that; out of the 17 seasons the Force have participated in the Super Rugby competition they've only made the finals once, and that was in an abbreviated version of the competition with only the Australian teams competing. Any team in any sport would struggle with that lack of on-field success.

Other sports teams have done perfectly fine in Perth as well, like the Wildcats and Scorchers for example, and I see no reason why a well run NRL side couldn't carve out it's own niche under the right circumstances either.

However in saying that, the AFL and WAFL have nothing to worry about from the Bears.

As I've said before, the Bears worse enemy will be themselves and the media in Sydney. It's only a matter of time before they go through a tough period, and as soon as they do the calls for them to move more games back 'home' to NSO and/or relocate will get louder, and louder. Naturally, that speculation will have a chilling effect on an already unstable union and what support they have in Perth, which will lead to infighting in the boardroom for control of the club, which will lead to further instability for an already struggling club.

It's happened with all the mergers, and I see no reason why this one will be any different.

I can very much see a world where (what Ive bolded happens). When Manly merge with Norh Sydney, it was a fractious relationship which led to Manly veering away from the North Sydney Bears in the inital merge. I could see eventually the Bears just basing themselves out of North Sydney permanently. It feels very much like North Sydneys team. So it is something to keep an eye out for.

West Australians generally hate anything thats relocated . Alot of people from the ground level wanted their own start-up franchise. There is this disdain anything East Coast related in WA. It has always been there, and will always be there.

 

[bigleague]

As I've said before, the Bears worse enemy will be themselves and the media in Sydney. It's only a matter of time before they go through a tough period, and as soon as they do the calls for them to move more games back 'home' to NSO and/or relocate will get louder, and louder. Naturally, that speculation will have a chilling effect on an already unstable union and what support they have in Perth, which will lead to infighting in the boardroom for control of the club, which will lead to further instability for an already struggling club.

It's happened with all the mergers, and I see no reason why this one will be any different.

I don’t think that’s going to be any real threat, the club isn’t really a relocation, it’s nrl owned and all they are really doing is rebooting the brand. I don’t think north Sydney will actually have any say in the governance of the club. No doubt there maybe some fans that call for them to move to north Sydney should it go pear shaped at stages in Perth, but it will just be noise.

I tend to agree with others who say the nrl could be the bears worst enemy. V’landys seems to be running it very ad hoc atm, he appointed his captains pick ceo that has further alienated SWM, before first appointing a board, same with the coach. The nrl should have just appointed their board, stepped back & let the board appoint a ceo & coach etc. It would give Perth a greater sense of ownership instead of leaning further into perceptions of a Sydney based club playing games in Perth. The coach announcement was case in point, they held it in Sydney ffs.

I think they will find enough of a niche to make a good go of it, but the nrl are really probably only interested in the time slot it opens up & the north Sydney connection just makes it more appealing to eastern state viewers.

 

[Badger17]

I don't see why not.
Glory, Force and Reds, all had good early crowds and then died.

Because you're cherry picking examples to make your point.

You're not actually observing a pattern, you're just selecting outlier examples to support your argument.

They are "other codes". and they have their own appeal.
Also, most of those sports followers also follow Australian Football.

Codes and sports being synonyms in this context isn't the gotcha you seem to think it is.

Isn't RL a 'code' with it's own appeal? Won't most of their supporters in Perth also end up following Aussie Rules? Why are you treating it as if it's some unique entity, and not just another sport like all the others?

 

[Badger17]

I can very much see a world where (what Ive bolded happens). When Manly merge with Norh Sydney, it was a fractious relationship which led to Manly veering away from the North Sydney Bears in the inital merge. I could see eventually the Bears just basing themselves out of North Sydney permanently. It feels very much like North Sydneys team. So it is something to keep an eye out for.

West Australians generally hate anything thats relocated . Alot of people from the ground level wanted their own start-up franchise. There is this disdain anything East Coast related in WA. It has always been there, and will always be there.

It wasn't just the Northern Eagles that was a fractious relationship.

All the mergers have been disasters.

Manly and Norths almost immediately ripped themselves apart in a war for control of the club. A war that all started because the Bears felt they weren't represented enough in the merger immediately after having signed a contract agreeing to that amount of representation. Is that sounding familiar yet...

St. George ended up quickly consuming Illawarra in what was effectively a hostile takeover, and haven't upheld any of their agreements from the initial merger except maintaining their training base in Wollongong.

Wests and Balmain have been a mess of conflict and incompetence since merging. The only reason they haven't ended up violently splitting like the Northern Eagles is because the NRL has intervened to prevent it multiple times, and Balmain is well aware of the fact they they can't survive without Wests support. The NRL don't want to lose the Tigers brand which they perceive to be more valuable, and there're more Balmain old boys in the NRL and ARLC establishment and media if we're being honest.

Just like the mergers the Perth Bears will inevitably end up with factions within the organisation that have conflicting visions for the club. One will want to see it focused on being an extension of the history of the North Sydney Bears, the other more on building support in Perth, and it'll work just fine until the moment the team starts to struggle.

At that point the articles will begin. Slowly at first, and almost certainly with a Buzz Rothfield article in the Daily Tele, but it'll force the different factions within the club into conflict over the direction of the club, which will lead to mismanagement and the team struggling more, which will lead to louder calls that the "experiment" in Perth has failed. It'll be a cycle that'll cripple the club.

 

[Badger17]

I don’t think that’s going to be any real threat, the club isn’t really a relocation, it’s nrl owned and all they are really doing is rebooting the brand. I don’t think north Sydney will actually have any say in the governance of the club. No doubt there maybe some fans that call for them to move to north Sydney should it go pear shaped at stages in Perth, but it will just be noise.

I tend to agree with others who say the nrl could be the bears worst enemy. V’landys seems to be running it very ad hoc atm, he appointed his captains pick ceo that has further alienated SWM, before first appointing a board, same with the coach. The nrl should have just appointed their board, stepped back & let the board appoint a ceo & coach etc. It would give Perth a greater sense of ownership instead of leaning further into perceptions of a Sydney based club playing games in Perth. The coach announcement was case in point, they held it in Sydney ffs.

I think they will find enough of a niche to make a good go of it, but the nrl are really probably only interested in the time slot it opens up & the north Sydney connection just makes it more appealing to eastern state viewers.

Is this the same NRL that openly rejected the Bears attempts to re-join the NRL for 20 years until PVL, who lives in North Sydney and has noted affection for the Bears, became chairman of the ARLC?

The same PVL who repeatedly said things like "Forget wasting millions in rusted-on AFL states. We must undertake a full analysis [of growth markets] but Perth does not have a huge league audience." of expanding to Perth until the prospect of forcibly linking them with the Bears became realistic?

The same PVL who initially forced the pre-existing Perth bid, who were highly regarded by the rest of NRL community and had been considered a shoe-in for a license for years, into talks with the Bears, then killed them with outrageous demands when it seemed like they wouldn't just hand everything over to the Bears?

The same PVL who then held an NRL license to ransom in negotiations with the WA government in no small part over the Bears involvement?

Yeah, the 'NRL will control the club, it isn't about North Sydney, so it'll be fine' stuff is spin, and largely spin coming from pundits that've pushed for the Bears return for Years. PVL, and by extension the current NRL administration's, intentions are crystal clear.

Furthermore, nobody in their right mind would go to efforts to make Sydney teams appealing to West Coast viewers, so why should Perth teams have to be appealing to Sydneysiders to justify their existence? Perth/WA teams should be for the people of Perth/WA, and the fact that isn't the first concern with the Perth Bears should tell you everything you need to know.

RL's biggest issue in this country has always been people from Sydney's inability to understand that they aren't the centre of the universe, and not everything has to revolve around them. This Bears situation is just another example of that overreach in practice.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I can't believe the support that South West WA gets.

From what I can tell, the first major mention was posted by the mayor, but he admitted it was tongue-in-cheek. But it's just grown legs from there.

It was spoken about on Fox Footy the other day.

They talk about the South West "booming" and cite that it has more people than Darwin. But that's a very low bar. A Darwin bid is predicted to have a funding gap of $15m and would need massive government funding. There's no chance of a South West team attracting any similar levels to an NT bid, so comparing its population to Darwin is irrelevant.

The South West has ~200k. Spread over a pretty big area. Some of that population is two hours away from Bunbury. If Canberra was including that, Batemans Bay and Young would be in our immediate catchment and suddenly Canberra would have ~800k people.

I know the South West is growing fast, but no chance they'll have enough people by the time the 20th team comes.